If you've read "The Golden Spruce"...

[slowp]

But what is the definition of virgin forest? We've had lots of stand replacing fires throughout history and volcanic eruptions. There are stories of fires getting out of hand that were set by the Indians, who managed the forests with fire.

For old growth, is it size or age? Lots of folks don't know that all big trees are not necessarily old trees, or vice versa.

 

[northmanlogging]

I always figured that "virgin" forest is one that hasn't been logged commercially, or replanted commercially. Fire is natural really, and the natives mostly used nature to their benefit, though on the east coast there is evidence of large scale farming and even some iron production.

 

[Deleted member 110241]

I always figured that "virgin" forest is one that hasn't been logged commercially, or replanted commercially. Fire is natural really, and the natives mostly used nature to their benefit, though on the east coast there is evidence of large scale farming and even some iron production.

Fire is what the fir hopes for when the undergrowth of spruce is getting too tall and starts to take over

I didn't know there was such vast areas of old forests over there, seems like I need to add a trip over the pond on my bucket list!

 

[northmanlogging]

problem is that most of the old growth is dificult to get to, greenues shut us down before we could build the roads that deep...

but there still is plenty a person can drive right up to and go for a stroll if you where so inclined.

if yer ok with long hikes in remote areas with no chance of rescue... there is even more to see...

most of the "virgin" forests here in the states are either designated wilderness or nstional parks

having said all that... theres still a bunch in my area that is merely across a river from a major scenic highway... not that most of the morons driving by it to hike the mountains can tell the difference

 

[Westboastfaller]

I fail to understand how some loggers don't give a **** about anything other than cutting down trees, there's more to logging than that.

A Logger dosen't bid on a timber sale and then take the government to court to change the gov logging practices
We don't manage the forests, we work in them.
WTF?

That's a public misconception of loggers my friend. I have met people from Europe that were under the impression that there isn't a tree left on Van Isl. Well as I so often drive the 6 hour length I can contest that. There is at least 7 trees. We don't have a choice to leave big tree's that will not make the grade for merchable timber yet still hold a good ecosystem and they are safe from activities posing no hazards.
On a gov timber sale every little sapling is cut right to the ribbon line.

http://www.againsttheleandocfilm.com/filmsummary.html

 

[madhatte]

But what is the definition of virgin forest? We've had lots of stand replacing fires throughout history and volcanic eruptions. There are stories of fires getting out of hand that were set by the Indians, who managed the forests with fire.

For old growth, is it size or age? Lots of folks don't know that all big trees are not necessarily old trees, or vice versa.

Quite right. I once drilled a 14" Hemlock that was 225 years old and only 50 ft tall, and I know of a stand of alders that top out at 150 ft and 20 years. Yes, I know that's off the scale for site index, and yes, I've already contacted the author of the curves, and no, we don't know why they're so tall. A mile from those alders I measured a Douglas-fir that was 84" DBH, 185 ft tall... and 75 years old.

I always figured that "virgin" forest is one that hasn't been logged commercially, or replanted commercially. Fire is natural really, and the natives mostly used nature to their benefit, though on the east coast there is evidence of large scale farming and even some iron production.

Here, of course, fire was used to keep the prairies clear for blue camas, a staple food crop. Family plots were maintained for generations. The forest margin was where the hazels and berries were found, as well as medicinal plants like princes-pine. These fire-dependent ecologies collapsed quickly with the cessation of fire, but they are quite resilient -- the spring after reintroducing fire, the camas is always back. By seed or by dormant bulb I don't know but it's always ready for that opportunity.

 

[northmanlogging]

Boulder falls trial, near Darrington WA

about 1 mile or so after the parking lot, you enter wilderness Boulder Basin Wilderness, several thousand acres of mostly unmolested forest, and its a small chunk.

The trees there don't look like much, they are big by most standards like 30-40" dbh but not huge, but the growth rings are smaller then 1/16" (2mm) more on the lines of 1/32 (1mm). Its just rocky ground on a north slope in the lea of the rain, so not much sun, no minerals and not as much rain as surounding areas (cause you know 120" a year is totally a desert and stuff or 3.05 meters of water dumped everywhere yearly) the boulder basin probably gets like 1/4 of that rain compared to the rest of the valley.

 

[rbtree]

problem is that most of the old growth is dificult to get to, greenues shut us down before we could build the roads that deep...

but there still is plenty a person can drive right up to and go for a stroll if you where so inclined.

if yer ok with long hikes in remote areas with no chance of rescue... there is even more to see...

most of the "virgin" forests here in the states are either designated wilderness or nstional parks

having said all that... theres still a bunch in my area that is merely across a river from a major scenic highway... not that most of the morons driving by it to hike the mountains can tell the difference

On southern Vancouver Is, less than 6% of the high productivity lowland forest old growth remains..... https://www.ancientforestalliance.org/old-growth-maps.php

 

[rbtree]

Boulder falls trial, near Darrington WA

about 1 mile or so after the parking lot, you enter wilderness Boulder Basin Wilderness, several thousand acres of mostly unmolested forest, and its a small chunk.

The trees there don't look like much, they are big by most standards like 30-40" dbh but not huge, but the growth rings are smaller then 1/16" (2mm) more on the lines of 1/32 (1mm). Its just rocky ground on a north slope in the lea of the rain, so not much sun, no minerals and not as much rain as surounding areas (cause you know 120" a year is totally a desert and stuff or 3.05 meters of water dumped everywhere yearly) the boulder basin probably gets like 1/4 of that rain compared to the rest of the valley.

Thanks for the beta. Wll be sure to visit sometime.... love seeing old but slow growing trees...