Interesting Urban Milling project

[BobL]

The Tree Lopper I have been working with is in the middle of quoting on an interesting Urban milling project that involves redeveloping a relatively large abandoned inner suburban public use site that has about 70 trees on it. The facility has been surplus to local requirements and closed for a number of years while asbestos was removed from some of the buildings before they were demolished.
The city owners of the site are looking at a very interesting development that involves
- keeping some of the trees as part of a park
- using some of the trees as lumber to build a children's playground and seating within the park
- milling the remainder for use within mostly housing type buildings on the site.
He's asked me if I want to be involved and I have said yes.
Because of the number of trees involved, a CSM is not going to cut it, so the tree lopper is now looking at the cost of purchasing a medium sized BS. The trees are a mix of local hardwoods and quite a few imported softwoods. Because of space and other issues the logs are not likely to be milled on site but back at the tree loppers depot. Some of the trees would be too big for the BS so we would probably need to split these in half with a CSM. It's not a fully sealed deal yet but if it comes off it could be a very interesting project

 

[GrantD]

Sounds like an interesting project to be involved in. With the owner's desire to reuse some of the milled wood in housing (I'm assuming restroom facilities and such), have they discussed kiln drying at all? Or are the plans to use it green?

Do you all have accessibility issues you have to contend with/ design around there? Just curious, because here in the US we have to plan around ADA (american disability act) requirements on any type of government facility/property that includes any type on ingress/egress, use, etc.

 

[BobL]

Sounds like an interesting project to be involved in. With the owner's desire to reuse some of the milled wood in housing (I'm assuming restroom facilities and such), have they discussed kiln drying at all? Or are the plans to use it green?

The stuff for the playground can be used green. The issue of kiln drying we are looking at. It's quite a long project in terms of time so this might be able to be handled within the proposed time line.

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Do you all have accessibility issues you have to contend with/ design around there? Just curious, because here in the US we have to plan around ADA (american disability act) requirements on any type of government facility/property that includes any type on ingress/egress, use, etc.

Yep we have that too but the housing will probably be privately developed for private so they won't have as much onus on them to follow these as closely as for public facilities.

 

[Dave Boyt]

Sounds like a great project. Which band saw mills are you looking at? I wish I could get the local city folks to do something like that. Just about everything gets chipped up. They did sell one very nice walnut tree out of a park for over $8,000. I wonder where that money went...

 

[BobL]

I'm not sure what is happening BS wise as I've been tied with aspects of the building and fitting out of a nearby community Workshop and haven't been able to catch up with the Tree Lopper. We did discuss BSMs a while back and he was talking about a 30" cut. A big factor will probably be support as we are a long way from anywhere.

 

[BobL]

Had a coupla beers with the Tree Loper today and we discussed the project and bandsaws. He's very keen on the Norwood even though the agent is on our East coast. I suggested if he was close to a decision that I should start to look around for an experienced BS miller and see if I can go spend a few days with them to learn the basics and he said "do it". I have located a BS miller about 200 miles away who is cutting up some very interesting stuff so will see what he says.

 

[Dave Boyt]

The Norwood is a tough mill, and easy to maintain. I've bumped my HD36 with the loader, dropped logs on it, and milled in some pretty tight places. If something were to happen to it, I would replace it with the same model. Milling logs 36" diameter takes some effort, but anything under 30" is a piece of cake. Bob, you've got the basics down with the chain saw mill, and the bandmill should be easy for you.

 

[BobL]

Thanks Dave. I have been following the odd discussion on BS milling on this forum but realise there's no substitute for practical experience.

 

[Ben Hankins]

Thanks Dave. I have been following the odd discussion on BS milling on this forum but realise there's no substitute for practical experience.

BobL- You seem to be the resident expert on CS Mills. I posted under Newb asking for advice. I've been wanting to mill for several years and finally decided to pull the trigger. I'm thinking about the Norwood CS mill and a new dolmar 6400. What are your thoughts? More info on my earlier post. Sorry to hijack your post. Thank you.

 

[BobL]

BobL- You seem to be the resident expert on CS Mills. I posted under Newb asking for advice. I've been wanting to mill for several years and finally decided to pull the trigger. I'm thinking about the Norwood CS mill and a new dolmar 6400. What are your thoughts? More info on my earlier post. Sorry to hijack your post. Thank you.

Hi Ben - sorry I'm not familiar with any of the Norwood mills so I can't really comment on them. Hopefully someone who has used one can chime in.

 

[Ben Hankins]

Hi Ben - sorry I'm not familiar with any of the Norwood mills so I can't really comment on them. Hopefully someone who has used one can chime in.

Thank you sir.

 

[BobL]

Hi Ben - sorry I'm not familiar with any of the Norwood mills so I can't really comment on them. Hopefully someone who has used one can chime in.

I downloaded the Norwood catalog because the Tree Lopper I work with is thinking of getting a Norwood BS and I had a closer look at the Norwood CS mill and can make a couple of comments about what I can see and general "Carriage" mill design.

It looks like it stows easily, is quick to setup and easy to use.
Operating the mill from an upright position is a real plus but this can also be done with an alaskan especially if the log is sloped, see below.

Using a CS for milling involves a lot of sharpening or chain swapping so any CS mill should make this as easy as possible. I can sharpen my saws or swap the chains while they are in the mill - this is a major advantage and you should look to see if this is possible or if not how quickly the saw can be removed from the mill for sharpening. Not that the Granberg is any easier as the saw has to be removed from the Granberg if the chain has to be swapped out.

I can't tell from the catalog how firmly the outboard end is held. The Norwood recommends a small bar size so that suggests not all that firmly but it should be fine for narrow cuts.
Of course you will want to cut bigger logs - just about every does and then you will be restricted to what you can cut.

One thing that would bug me was having the sawdust falling all over the ladder and having to stop and clean this away from time to time. My custom setup has the sawdust falling into the exhaust stream which blows it away from the operator so the operator is not walking on the sawdust

The main reason I don't like carriage designs for CS milling is the log cannot easily be sloped and then use the weight of the mill to cut under it's own weight so very little pushing of the mill is required. A mill that keeps milling under its own weight (even for 30 seconds or so) is useful because you can let it go and go get and insert wedges, have a drink or do something else.

 

[Ben Hankins]

That is awesome feedback. I read somewhere, maybe one of your comments, that the bar needs to be supported at both ends or the custom will always be uneven. That is the major concern I had also. I think I will go with a 30" Alaskan with a ms661 and 36" bar. Do you think the 661 will have an issue turning that big bar in a milling setup? I went yesterday and priced the saw. I wanted to go with the ms880 but with the price difference I may start with a 661. What are your thoughts on dolmar saws? I'm guessing the saw may get used less than 100 hours a year milling and then to cut firewood with a 25" bar. Just wondering if I'm jumping in the deep end when I should try the kiddy pool first? Ha

Thanks again for your advice!

 

[BobL]

That is awesome feedback. I read somewhere, maybe one of your comments, that the bar needs to be supported at both ends or the custom will always be uneven. That is the major concern I had also. I think I will go with a 30" Alaskan with a ms661 and 36" bar. Do you think the 661 will have an issue turning that big bar in a milling setup?

Folks here in Oz are using the 660 series in our tough hardwoods with bars up to 42" (36" cut on a standard alaskan) with no probs.

I went yesterday and priced the saw. I wanted to go with the ms880 but with the price difference I may start with a 661. What are your thoughts on dolmar saws? I'm guessing the saw may get used less than 100 hours a year milling and then to cut firewood with a 25" bar. Just wondering if I'm jumping in the deep end when I should try the kiddy pool first? Ha

I'd much rather be cutting the firewood with a 661 than an 880 and with a 25" bar you won't notice much if any difference is cutting speed between an 880 and 661 as both saws are chain speed limited at that bar size. The 660 has a greater chain speed so using standard chains and sprockets in small logs the 660 may outcut the 880.. Of course the greater torque of the 880 means it can utilise a more aggressive chain setting and higher pin count drive sprockets so that an 880 should be able to outcut the 660 but some finessing is required to do this

 

[Ben Hankins]

Folks here in Oz are using the 660 series in our tough hardwoods with bars up to 42" (36" cut on a standard alaskan) with no probs.

Ok so what I'm narrowing a bead on is a ms661 42" bar, 36" Alaskan mill, and a Granberg mini mill. I've also been looking at building some benches and a picnic table for my girlfriend. She has been checking out my watch later on YouTube. She's asking for some "cute" furniture for a cabin for the kiddos. I let her call them cute, bc now she's not complaining about the $ I'm spending! Lol


We don't have many exotics around here but plenty of walnut, cedar, oak, and ash. I've always been a big fan of cedar. For looks and I love the smell! Just wondering what your thoughts are on what type of oils or epoxy everyone is using? I know I want to use cedar and keep that natural red for the benches.

 

[BobL]

We don't have many exotics around here but plenty of walnut, cedar, oak, and ash. I've always been a big fan of cedar. For looks and I love the smell! Just wondering what your thoughts are on what type of oils or epoxy everyone is using? I know I want to use cedar and keep that natural red for the benches.

I guess that depends where you are on the planet. Those species are all exotics to me.

 

[Ben Hankins]

I guess that depends where you are on the planet. Those species are all exotics to me.

That's deep BobL...glass half full perspective! Lol

 

[BobL]

The tree lopper has identified a used bandsaw that is literally 3 minutes away from his depot and we are going to look at it tomorrow. It turns out I know the seller and he is a reliable bloke and would be more than willing to provide ongoing advice etc. The seller is apparently getting a bigger more automated BSM so it will be interesting to see what he gets. I'll see if I can take some pics.

 

[BobL]

We went and had a quick look at the used BSM (sorry no pics yet).
It has a max cut length of 16 ft and a max of 35" wide cut.
27Hp Motor and electrical vertical movement of the carriage.
Everything else is manual.
There are about 10 spare blades
Mechanically it's in solid shape but cosmetically it needs some of TLC.
There were stacks of timber around it that had been cut with it and they looked very straight.
We're thinking about it, I'm going back next week to see it running.

 

[BobL]

We went and saw the BSM running and the Tree lopper has decided to buy.

Here are a couple of pics. I have a movie of it running I will try and edit out a segment of and post.
Like I said, some cosmetic work needed otherwise it seemed to run very nicely.
Delivery is sometime next week - now to get on the learning curve.