Anyone else seen this? Just curious as to the pro's and con's. I think Wade is a lot smarter than he sounds sometimes
Leaner technique
- Thread starter Woody912
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gol or coos, and I can't believe I'm saying this, is quicker and simpler.
The GOL or SSD or bore cut, establishes the hold wood while leaving a "trigger" or safety strap, accomplishes the same thing with one less cut, keeping the hold wood to the ideal amount, be it 10% of dia or 1-2 inches etc, with a properly cleaned out face cut shouldn't chair.
The coos is granted a little more risky but quicker and simpler.
This knotch lock thing, while not a bad idea, is really kinda pointless since it relies on a trigger strap anyway, plus if the tree is going to chair because of too much hold wood it will chair anyway as soon as it clears the knotch.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
The GOL or SSD or bore cut, establishes the hold wood while leaving a "trigger" or safety strap, accomplishes the same thing with one less cut, keeping the hold wood to the ideal amount, be it 10% of dia or 1-2 inches etc, with a properly cleaned out face cut shouldn't chair.
The coos is granted a little more risky but quicker and simpler.
This knotch lock thing, while not a bad idea, is really kinda pointless since it relies on a trigger strap anyway, plus if the tree is going to chair because of too much hold wood it will chair anyway as soon as it clears the knotch.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Nothing wrong with boring when you gotta.
I've cut a few alders this way but you're right; it's usually more work than it's worth and there are simpler methods that leave you open to less risk.
I've cut a few alders this way but you're right; it's usually more work than it's worth and there are simpler methods that leave you open to less risk.
Leaners? Try the Coos Bay cut. Boring or the SSD have their place but the Coos Bay gives you a little better chance of not 'chairing.
I prefer the V cut because it seems easier to match your cuts but either way will work.
I prefer the V cut because it seems easier to match your cuts but either way will work.
I had to watch his vid a couple times to understand what he was doing, does seem a little more complicated. I'm just a firewood cutter but I have examined a few hundred stumps cut by local loggers and am pretty certain that I can say no one uses a Coos bay cut around here. ( probably too much fiber pull on high $$ timber?) They all bore cut and then trip a trigger. after seeing an 880 fly thru the air on another vid I will doing all mine with an upcut instead of a downcut from now on!Leaners? Try the Coos Bay cut. Boring or the SSD have their place but the Coos Bay gives you a little better chance of not 'chairing.
I prefer the V cut because it seems easier to match your cuts but either way will work.
sw oh logger
ArboristSite Lurker
Leaners? Try the Coos Bay cut. Boring or the SSD have their place but the Coos Bay gives you a little better chance of not 'chairing.
I prefer the V cut because it seems easier to match your cuts but either way will work.
Nothing against these cuts,BUT in the Midwest and in the hills of the South when you're cutting a veneer Walnut or White Oak, for example, there isn't enough room to leave this kind of holding wood if the tree isn't at least 30 inches or larger, let alone you can't leave any heart wood to tear or pull--so it isn't just the lean you're fighting, but also the value of the butt log you might lose.
Hey, no problem. If it doesn't work for you, don't use it. That should go without saying,
Skeans
Addicted to ArboristSite
Where these cuts where developed is a place where a hard wood can and will follow a steep hillside fighting for light and they are high dollars sticks as well.
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It always bugs me to see guys risk so much to save out board-inches. I'll always err on the side of safety, which means to cut it efficiently and get away. I want to spend as little time at the stump as possible.
Skeans
Addicted to ArboristSite
I agree we have all spent too much time on an alder or a blow down stump to see our saw or worse someone killed.
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bitzer
******** Timber Expert
I don't remember the last time i bored a tree. The coos bay can be used efficiently on all hard leaning hardwood with minimal to no fiber pull. Its all in the cuts. Face and back. It just has to be executed properly. The "v" backcut does not remove enough wood for the heaviest, hardest leaners. Typically i use the "strip" or what looks like a "T" shape if you include the hinge. If you do it right (one quarter of the back then the other) you will have the middle sawn out and the tree will pull the back of the stump out of the ground as it goes. Saw that off when its down and you've got a clean butt.
Northman said it about the 'lock' technique. Once the tree passes that, whats to keep it from splitting? How about executing proper cuts and you don't have to worry about it.
Northman said it about the 'lock' technique. Once the tree passes that, whats to keep it from splitting? How about executing proper cuts and you don't have to worry about it.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
I agree, but that butt log can be worth double or more what the rest of the tree is worth. It just needs to be cut up right and can be done safely without a lot of bs.
Bitzer, I am trying to visualize your cut and am guessing with the root pull that you are essentially cutting out the strip front to back and though technically not using a bore cut, you are doing the same thing. If not, what am I missing?
Ron
I can see that in hardwoods, considering how the branching of the crown goes compared to softwoods. My experience is largely Douglas-Fir, which is a super well-behaved tree on the stump compared to lots of others.
Just an assumption on my part, based loosely on experience, seems that the face cut has as much or more to do with fiber pull than anything. Narrow little face and the stem will want to lift off the stump rather then fold and break the fibers. But the down side is that a wide open face will let the tree more or less free fall and smash hard into the dirt? That part I'm still kinda working on though...
Granted hold wood still has an effect on both speed and fiber pull, its finding that balance between the two that I may never find... every tree is different and they all have their own issues, can't just say here's the magic formula and go.
Also I still hold the theory that a lot of chairs are caused by stalling the tree, usually by not having the face cleaned out good enough, but also by not cutting through the back fast enough, tree starts to go but then stops for whatever reason, puts a tremendous amount of stress on one tiny point, that just so happens to be where your saw is currently cutting. Kinda the whole point of having a big fast saw is to get through that danger point as fast as possible, as well as methods like the Coos, cut that back up quick like and GTFO.
Granted hold wood still has an effect on both speed and fiber pull, its finding that balance between the two that I may never find... every tree is different and they all have their own issues, can't just say here's the magic formula and go.
Also I still hold the theory that a lot of chairs are caused by stalling the tree, usually by not having the face cleaned out good enough, but also by not cutting through the back fast enough, tree starts to go but then stops for whatever reason, puts a tremendous amount of stress on one tiny point, that just so happens to be where your saw is currently cutting. Kinda the whole point of having a big fast saw is to get through that danger point as fast as possible, as well as methods like the Coos, cut that back up quick like and GTFO.
Exactly right.
A lot of midwestern hardwood is cut when temps are well below freezing, wonder if that is a contributing factor??? There are several species that I try to split when the temp is -10F or so, don't split worth a darn at 50
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
More or less. The entire saw is never in the compression zone at any one time. Each quarter can be sawn from the side or behind the tree. This way you can pull the saw out more quickly and kind of read what the tree is going to do. You don't have a full bar stuck in the tree for it to sit on.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Yep.
