Loblolly pines

[readonly]

We had some planted pines thinned last year. The job went really well. But they couldn't get to on 2.5 acre patch on the other side of the highway, because they could not get there trucks in the access road and the state did not give them permitt to use the right of way. They said the only option would be to clear cut it, and I did not want that.

This is a long narrow strip of pines that run along the highway totaling 2.5 acres, with an abandoned right of way on the other side. About 2 acres is loblolly planted in '94. The other 1/2 acre is Virginia pine that is 60-70 year old and not more than pulp.

Most of the loblolly have plenty of space and are doing quite well. About 1/2 acre of it is very tightly spaced and past when they should have been thinned. Since I will not be able to get anybody in there for a few loads of pulp, my goal is to thin these out enough so there will be room to grow on the remaining trees and 8-10 years down the road I will be able to get somebody in with a 6 ton truck to cut a few loads of logs.

What kind of spacing should I target when thinning these out? I want to cut just the right about amount, no more than necessary. Thanks.

 

[Twindad]

It sounds like you have a fairly reasonable plan. The unthinned stand will need to be thinned or their growth will stagnate. Planted loblolly pines are often thinned by the row, removing every other or even every third row. Some operators will thin to a specific basal area recommended by a forester. Most loblolly thinnings are done mechanically these days, as you probably know.
If you are going to thin them yourself, try to select the largest, healthiest, straightest, trees and then remove or kill any other tree that is (or will be) interfering with the crown of your selected crop tree. With the age of your trees and your future plans, clearing roughly 10 ft around the crowns should be good. It is also acceptable to clear out around only 2 or 3 sides of the crown if you have two nice trees side by side.

 

[northmanlogging]

Well knowing next to nothing about loblolly pine, and less about the viginia pine...

Could you just leave it until its ready? while thinning does improve a stand losing money at it doesn't make it much fun.

Or the other option is hire some small out fit to thin it, but give them all the wood, small outfit generally means they are using self loaders and not necessarily needing as good of access, could pick a wide spot in the road and load from there, (laws may vary from state to state, county to county). Of course they would probably end up taking 100%.

As far as just thinning it, whether you do it yourself of hire it done. figure on thinning so that neighboring trees have a touch of sky between branches, roughly every other or 1 in 3 get cut, focusing on the ugly, damaged, unhealthy ones. A forester would have a better idea as to what would need done but as a general rule of thumb, for what its worth.

If you do end up slashing and leaving you're going to end up with a 2 acre fire hazzard, so do your best to get the stems and branches all the way to the ground where they stand a better chance of both rotting and staying moist, or worst case if they do catch on fire then they are a little closer to the dirt and marginally easier to put out.

 

[bigbarf48]

Without knowing current density, I would thin to ~80 basal area per acre. Or 1-200 trees per acre. I would not do anything with the Virginia. Worthless tree

Generally thinning a are every 5th row with selection in between. Loblolly does not need 10 feet around the crown. This is not the same situation as thinning hardwoods. Excessive spacing leads to excessive lateral branching which is bad for lumber production


Edit: all that being said, if you aren't get getting any revenue from this thinning, you likely won't see a return when it is clear cut. I would clear cut the lob and Virginia and replant at proper density and try to add more area if possible so this stand is commercially useful. From then, manage as usual for a 30 year pine rotation

 

[readonly]

I went up in there and got started this afternoon. I cut down a couple dozen trees, picking the weakest looking, split trunk, etc. The spacing is not uniform....the thickest portion they are 6x8. They are now 22 years old, at leas 40-50' tall, and at least 6-7" dbh, with some quite a bit larger. I am mainly trying to thin out the thickest portions, just enough so that the remaining trees will get a log or two 10 years from now. Some of those trees already have a log in them. The stand itself is pretty healthy. It is just a slab of land that was cut off from the rest of our property when the new highway was put in over 60 years ago.

With the trees being that thick it was more difficult than I had expected. Some trees I could not get on the ground because the tops were tangle as soon as they started to lean. Most I did not get on the ground with some pulling and pushing.

Last year when the bulk of our pine were thinned....most 22 year old with some 26, first thinning.....they did 5th row thinning and then light select cut on the remaining rows. Our forester marked every single tree to keep. It went great and we netted close to a $1k an acre, with a recommendation to thin again in 8 years since it was a light thinning. The crew used a chipper. They got at least 1 log out of most trees...maybe only a 10' log but then they chipped the rest for either pulp or fuel.

 

[readonly]

This pic is of some of our pines last year after the thinning. If you look close you can see where every 5th row is gone. That trash pile was all the debris left thanks to the chipper. I burned after we had gotten a bunch of rain. Most burned within 24 hours but then it smolder for a couple weeks.

 

[readonly]

Wow how time flies. The trees in the pic are huge now. Getting ready to start another cut this week. Thinning out the ones in the pic again. Clearcutting trees that are 5 years older (planted 3/89)...there's only about 3 acres of them but they are huge, with many well over 20" DBH.
The 2.5 acres across the road will also be clearcut. I went in after starting this thread and thinned them out in the most choked out area, cutting 50 or so. It do some good. They are still packed tight with an average DBH close to 15", good numbers as big as 19" and the smallest are still a healthy 11". The state forester said they need clearcut now because the crowns are too small and they will not survive an ice storm, and if I thin them they will blow down in heavy wind. I agree. There should be a lot of value in them as they are tall, ramrod straight, and big enough for logs. Eager to see how it goes. Also cutting some big poplars and other mixed hardwoods.

 

[readonly]

Here's a couple of pics of the loblolly across the road and couple of other trees that will be cut. Mailbox for size reference on those pines. I spent the afternoon marking trees and cutting autumn olive with my boys.

 

[newforest]

I heard an interesting rule of thumb for Loblolly when I worked around them a whole lot. A solid hard working Forester I respected told me that once the live crown drops below 30%, you are losing growth potential as the tree can’t respond to thinning as well as if the live crown were bigger. He didn’t fool with basal area, he said, just simple live crown observation. Some of the Foresters I worked with down there had so many acres-per-Forester to manage that I don’t think they did half the stuff an academic Forester would suggest checking before pulling the trigger on what to do next.

Now back home in the Great Lakes, I can’t even look at Red Pine plantations always with low live crown % on Federal blocks. If I ask a northern Forester about that they’ll get into discussing basal areas and site indexes and growth curves. If I mention the idea of operator select thinning as it’s done in the Loblolly belt they get straight offended. And then I just go back to guesstimating the crown % when I look at Pine up here. Seems like a handy way to ponder it.

 

[readonly]

It's been a year and I'm happy with the way everything turned out. I put together a video of footage I took before during and after the timber harvest....marking trees and such all the way through burning the trash pile.