log splitter help!!

[bigdaddy3]

I bought a used splitter from a friend cheap, only name on it is Iorn Hand, research has lead me to believe it is made by speeco, it has a 4 1/2" cylinder cylinder(measures 5 on the outside diameter) and it has a Honda GX240 motor.
When I cranked it upit would cycle up and down ok and split a small log but if it was very big or had any knot it would just bind up when it got into the log, the valve was wore out the detent did not work do I replaced it and I also replaced the pump with a 16gpm 2 stage one like advertised on the log splitter sites, I also changed the the fluid and installed a new filter, after all of this it does not do much better, when it gets into a big log it will actually kill the engine if you don't let off, was wondering if the cylinder could be by passing and cause this, I have noticed that when the cylinder goes back up and when it gets to the top the detent will kick out like it should but then if you leave it setting there the cylinder will very slowly start to ease down ever so very slow. PLEASE ANY HELP OR ADVISE WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

Thanks Kim

 

[Vermonster]

I bought a used splitter from a friend cheap, only name on it is Iorn Hand, research has lead me to believe it is made by speeco, it has a 4 1/2" cylinder cylinder(measures 5 on the outside diameter) and it has a Honda GX240 motor.
When I cranked it upit would cycle up and down ok and split a small log but if it was very big or had any knot it would just bind up when it got into the log, the valve was wore out the detent did not work do I replaced it and I also replaced the pump with a 16gpm 2 stage one like advertised on the log splitter sites, I also changed the the fluid and installed a new filter, after all of this it does not do much better, when it gets into a big log it will actually kill the engine if you don't let off, was wondering if the cylinder could be by passing and cause this, I have noticed that when the cylinder goes back up and when it gets to the top the detent will kick out like it should but then if you leave it setting there the cylinder will very slowly start to ease down ever so very slow. PLEASE ANY HELP OR ADVISE WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

Thanks Kim

I'd go back to using a good old fashioned "mull" for splitting.

 

[John R]

Sounds like you have an internal leak in the cylinder.

 

[ttyR2]

If it tries to kill the engine when the wedge is in wood, I'd suspect the valve pack and/or relief spring. If the cylinder was leaking internally, that should have zero effect on the engine. The fluid that leaked past the cylinder would just return to the hydraulic fluid tank.

Does it make any odd noises? Like growling or something.

 

[bigdaddy3]

I bought a used splitter from a friend cheap, only name on it is Iorn Hand, research has lead me to believe it is made by speeco, it has a 4 1/2" cylinder cylinder(measures 5 on the outside diameter) and it has a Honda GX240 motor.
When I cranked it upit would cycle up and down ok and split a small log but if it was very big or had any knot it would just bind up when it got into the log, the valve was wore out the detent did not work do I replaced it and I also replaced the pump with a 16gpm 2 stage one like advertised on the log splitter sites, I also changed the the fluid and installed a new filter, after all of this it does not do much better, when it gets into a big log it will actually kill the engine if you don't let off, was wondering if the cylinder could be by passing and cause this, I have noticed that when the cylinder goes back up and when it gets to the top the detent will kick out like it should but then if you leave it setting there the cylinder will very slowly start to ease down ever so very slow. PLEASE ANY HELP OR ADVISE WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

Thanks Kim

If it tries to kill the engine when the wedge is in wood, I'd suspect the valve pack and/or relief spring. If the cylinder was leaking internally, that should have zero effect on the engine. The fluid that leaked past the cylinder would just return to the hydraulic fluid tank.

Does it make any odd noises? Like growling or something.

 

[bigdaddy3]

I hear a whinning that sounds like it is in the cylinder when it gets under a load, the pump is brand new and so is the detent valve, I just thought that maybe with the 16gpm pump that it was bypassing in the cylinder and never jumping to the lower stage with the large volume of fluid was just loading the engine before it kicked down in to the lower stage, since when I changed the pump and the valve didnt really make a big difference, the higher volume pump may have given it a little more force but it also loaded the engine even more.

 

[ttyR2]

Whining would indicate cavitation to me, or a relief valve isn't working right. Double-check all the hose connections, especially on the suction side, to make sure there isn't any air being drawn in.

 

[ft. churchill]

You may have to adjust the switch over pressure relief valve on the pump such that it shifts to the low volume, high pressure stage sooner. It sound as if it is set too high.

 

[bigdaddy3]

Suction side is very short and I just replaced all of it new and tighten very well, basically everything in the hydraulic system new except cylinder, before I put the new valve and pump on it would do almost the same except it would not pull the engine down as bad it would just get to the log and stop but this new pump is a higher gpm, just not sure I have had a couple of people tell me that it was the cylinder, it is a 99 year model machine .

 

[Jakers]

first things first, do you have a gauge on it? if not, install one and then figure out what pressure you are actually getting. hard to diagnose without a gauge. if you put on new parts, its important to thoroughly bleed the system. run the ram out and in a few times 4-5, check fluid for air in it. if its foamy, let it sit 20 min, refill, repeat. if no foam and fluid full, continue by trying a split that stalled before. still problems? what pressure did you hit 500 psi? 900? or does it pressure up to a full 2500+psi?

 

[bigdaddy3]

I will try and get a guage on Monday, where should the guage be installed, did anybody see what I said about that when the cylinder goes to the top and the detent kicks the valve out if you watch it over time the splitting head on the end of the cylinder will ever so slow ease down, would that not mean the seals were leaking in the cylinder.

 

[mopar3]

I'm wondering if the engine is not running well. If you had leakage the cylinder would not move well but the engine should be unaffected. Leakage is not going to over load the pump if it the cylinder leaks the pressure will be low.

 

[mopar3]

Try running it on half choke to see if the engine is running lean due to a dirty carb. Check out the air filter too.

 

[ft. churchill]

You may have more than one problem. Like jakers said a gauge would help, but not necessary. If your cylinder piston seals are blowing by, that would allow the pump/engine to run easier, not pull it down. (less load hydraulically for the engine to work against.) You can adjust the second stage kick in point by trial and error. There will be a another pressure relief on the valve handle assembly, that will control overall system pressure and when the detent kick back to neutral. Remember that a higher gmp pump takes more horsepower to rum at the same pressures as a lower gmp. I just went thru this last season with by neighbor's homemade splitter. It was kinda fun balancing the load the motor would do against the highest pressure we could get for the ram. He had too much pump for the size of the little 5 hp motor that he had on it. It was stalling the engine in the split. I kept turning down the overall pressure until I was at the point of the engine was not stalling anymore. We did not have a gauge on this unit (It sure would have been nice) and I know it greatly reduced the power at the ram but now it was in balance and was useable. This was a single stage pump and yours will be more complex to dial in with more variables. To lower the psi setting on any of these reliefs, remove the cap and turn the screw (allen head bolt) CCW, to lessen the spring tension on the relief valve.



























c

 

[Woodchip1]

You may have more than one problem. Like jakers said a gauge would help, but not necessary. If your cylinder piston seals are blowing by, that would allow the pump/engine to run easier, not pull it down. (less load hydraulically for the engine to work against.) You can adjust the second stage kick in point by trial and error. There will be a another pressure relief on the valve handle assembly, that will control overall system pressure and when the detent kick back to neutral. Remember that a higher gmp pump takes more horsepower to rum at the same pressures as a lower gmp. I just went thru this last season with by neighbor's homemade splitter. It was kinda fun balancing the load the motor would do against the highest pressure we could get for the ram. He had too much pump for the size of the little 5 hp motor that he had on it. It was stalling the engine in the split. I kept turning down the overall pressure until I was at the point of the engine was not stalling anymore. We did not have a gauge on this unit (It sure would have been nice) and I know it greatly reduced the power at the ram but now it was in balance and was useable. This was a single stage pump and yours will be more complex to dial in with more variables. To lower the psi setting on any of these reliefs, remove the cap and turn the screw (allen head bolt) CCW, to lessen the spring tension on the relief valve.



I think this guy has it right. I had issues with mine too and learned that HP and pump size have to be in balance. Do you know for sure that your pump is shifting down to slower stage? Unless the engine is not running right (not enough HP) for what ever reason, the problem is too much strain on the engine from too much back pressure. My guess is either the engine is not putting out the rated HP or the pump is not shifting down. It might not be shifting down because your engine can not generate enough HP to make it shift. I would look into the required HP to run the pump and do a compression test on the engine. Also are you letting everything warm up? If it is real cold the hydro fluid is like tar. Let it run for a few minutes to warm up the fluid.























c

 

[muddstopper]

I guess everyone missed the part about the the cylinder leaking down. This is one of two things, either the control valve is bypassing, or the cylinder is bypassing. To check cylinder for bypass, fully extend cylinder, then loosen the hydraulic hose on the rod end and then try to extend the cylinder further by using the control valve under pressure. If fluid sprays out of loose hose, then fluid is bypassing inside the cylinder. You can peform the same test by fully retracting the cylinder and loosening the hose on the base end of the cyl. Replace or rebuild the cylinder. If no fluid sprays, or you just have a little seepage at the loose hose, then problem is at the control valve. The fact that if you keep applying pressure to the cylinder and it kills the engine sort of tells me the cylinder isnt the problem. If cylinder was bypassing, it shouldnt allow a pressure buildup that would load the engine enought to kill it. I would still check the cyl as described since it doesnt cost anything to do, before throwing any more money at a guess. My guess is since you had to replace the detent on the control valve, the control valve itself is what is causeing the problem. Stuck relief? Worn spool? Bad Oring? Could be as simple as disassembling the valve and cleaning everything well and reassembling, to having to replace the valve entirely.

 

[djones]

Having gone through the same problem on my own homemade splitter, leak down, not splitting under pressure, I found that the relief valve needed to be adjusted and or cleaned out. One time it was a piece of o-ring stuck under the relief valve, another time it was a sticky relief valve. The relief valve regulates the amount of pressure the pump builds up. As stated above, leaking seals will not stall the engine. You will lose pressure but not rpm's. Undersized hoses are another way to lose pressure throughout the system, 1/2" is the minimum size with 3/4" to 1" being the better sizes.

 

[bigdaddy3]

Don't think it is a worn or dirty controll valve since it is all brand new, and I realize this pump has a little higher flow than the original one , but the characteristics of the problem are bacically the same as it was before I replaced the parts, how do i know for sure the pump is going into the lower stage, the pump on the top side where the pressure line comes out there is a plug with a ball and spring under it and then threre is also on the top there is a cap that has a slot head adjustment under it, and the on the bottom side of the pump where the suction line is there is a large cap with a big slot head adjustment under it, what is the fuction of all of theses.

 

[bigdaddy3]

Here are a couple of pictures of my pump, maybe someone can tell me what all of these adjustments are and what you think I should try, I have been in the automotive field my entire life, I own and operate a Bridgestone/Firestone Tire store, I could tear the Honda engine down and put it back together in my sleep,but I am ignorant to this type of hydraulics, I am just bull headed enough I will eventually get it figured out but it will be very helpful if I gain gain some knowledge from you guys that have already paid your dues and have already been through what I am experiencing, again guys thank you for taking the time to help me figure this thing out. I don't know if everybody is like me but I have a one track mind and when I get something like this on my mind it will drive me crazy, maybe I can return the favor one day.

 

[Jakers]

it is a possibility that you had a faulty two stage pump and replaced it with a brand new, faulty two stage pump. stranger things have happened