Log splitter valve problems, once again

[Thunder]

Can you guys help out an old fossil like me? I have an older Huskee (speedco) 34 Ton with lack of power problem. After searching and reading up on it on this forum I decided to take a part the proportional valve to see if any was wrong with it. Well I took it apart and can't figure out how in the heck the one end goes back together (the end opposite the handle). Four small ball bearings (<1/8"), a spring and a one larger ball bearing (1/4") fell out of the cup/dust cover when I dissassembled it. I've tried several different configurations but none seem to work like the it did, slow return and/or return detent doesn't work. Any body know how this thing goes back together? It's a energy C1271 valve, tried looking on line for a schematic with no luck. BTW, still has low power, everything in the valve looked ok.

Thanks,

Thunder

 

[Thunder]

Here's some pics of the valve

 

[danrclem]

I can't help you but if you contact Speeco they may be able to email you a diagram.

http://www.speeco.com/

 

[leon]

Can you guys help out an old fossil like me? I have an older Huskee (speedco) 34 Ton with lack of power problem. After searching and reading up on it on this forum I decided to take a part the proportional valve to see if any was wrong with it. Well I took it apart and can't figure out how in the heck the one end goes back together (the end opposite the handle). Four small ball bearings (<1/8"), a spring and a one larger ball bearing (1/4") fell out of the cup/dust cover when I dissassembled it. I've tried several different configurations but none seem to work like the it did, slow return and/or return detent doesn't work. Any body know how this thing goes back together? It's a energy C1271 valve, tried looking on line for a schematic with no luck. BTW, still has low power, everything in the valve looked ok.

Thanks,

Thunder

==============================================

The detent for the valve spool which is designed to hold the valve
spool to divert oil flow uses the 4 steel balls and spring pressure
for a limited distance of travel to hold the spool in one postion
being the work position being forward or return position to the
fully retracted position.

Not knowing who built their valve prohibits me from detailing to you
the complete repair solution- if you are having thse many problems
as you stated you may need a new valve to replace that one.
the removal of the old valve and installing the new one will be easy to do.
==========================================================

If you have the paperwork that came with the splitter the valve should be
fully illustrated.


What has happened is the detent balls-which are the four small ball bearings
you mentioned have fallen out which they will do if the end cap and springs are
allowed to become separated-which is probably what occured due to excessive
wear or poor materials in the valve.

The detent balls hold the spool valve in place in either the forward and reverse
directions in which the cylinder travels.

As the valve is fully automatic the oil flow upon the cylinder stopping pushed the
valve spool back to the neutral open center position.


I would suggest obtaining a new valve simply based on your comments as the
valve spool surfaces will wear sooner than the cylinder packing as a rule and
oil will bypass quickly through a worn spool valve.

 

[Thunder]

Well I figured it out and fire it back up and the detent work as before. Leon your right the 4 small ball bearings are forced into the detent in the sleeve by the spring and larger ball bearing. I don't know what I was thinking or maybe that was it I wasn't thinking. Anyways the non grooved sleeve goes on first then spring goes in hole, then the 4 small ball bearing go into the 4 small holes use grease to hold them in place. Put the larger ball bearing in the hole where the spring went, push the large ball bearing into the hole while sliding the grooved sleeve over the 4 small ball bearings. The two gooves in the sleeve should go to the rear/outside of the valve. If you don't do this the detent will be on the splitting / force side and not on the return side. That could be a problem to you hand. I used a 1/4" deep well socket with extension to help push the larger ball bearing back in the hole. I still have the low pressure / power problem. I guess I'll try to see what's going on with the pressure releif valve under the oil filter. I read a post on this from somebody that used to work at TSC and said it was a common problem. Wish I would of seen it before. THANKS TO ALL.

See ya,

Thunder

 

[leon]

Well I figured it out and fire it back up and the detent work as before. Leon your right the 4 small ball bearings are forced into the detent in the sleeve by the spring and larger ball bearing. I don't know what I was thinking or maybe that was it I wasn't thinking. Anyways the non grooved sleeve goes on first then spring goes in hole, then the 4 small ball bearing go into the 4 small holes use grease to hold them in place. Put the larger ball bearing in the hole where the spring went, push the large ball bearing into the hole while sliding the grooved sleeve over the 4 small ball bearings. The two gooves in the sleeve should go to the rear/outside of the valve. If you don't do this the detent will be on the splitting / force side and not on the return side. That could be a problem to you hand. I used a 1/4" deep well socket with extension to help push the larger ball bearing back in the hole. I still have the low pressure / power problem. I guess I'll try to see what's going on with the pressure releif valve under the oil filter. I read a post on this from somebody that used to work at TSC and said it was a common problem. Wish I would of seen it before. THANKS TO ALL.

See ya,

Thunder

Hello Thunder,

before you do anything there are two things I would like you to doabout your splitter-

First please check the inlet suction screen if there is one-it would be at the end of the pump inlet line going into the tank-it may have a lot of junk clogging it, two please change the filter first if it has one.

Relief valves are very finicky as an eighth of an inch of movement to increase pressure can mean a thousand pounds of pressure if no gauge is used.

:yourock::agree2:

 

[Mike Van]

Goog advise Leon -

 

[Thunder]

Well, took the oil filther off and the base. There is a plastic plug and spring in the base, the spring appears to have ridden over the end of the plug. See pics. Don't how that would affect 2nd high pressure stage, will fix it though. Suction hose/pump inlet hose was ok. No screen in pump inlet. I'll put a new filter on and see what happens.

Thanks,

Guys

 

[kevin j]

that is the filter bypass valve. should have nothing to do with your pump performance.

oil comes to outside of pleated element (or least it should be this direction). If the pressure difference between the sides of the element is more than typically 25 to 50 psi, the plastic valve opens and bypasses some flow around the element. This would happen with cold startup, or surges of flow say when retracting the cylinder.

There were earlier posts where the poster blew the filter can. It was either installed backwards out to in, (so the bypass would not work and the element pleats would fold the wrong way and block flow) or it had compressed air in the cylinder. When ported back to tank to return the rod, the compressed air blows out flow far in excess of pump rated flow, the filter and bypass are overwhelmed, and the can blew.

sometimes there are multiple slots on the plastic thing for settings of 15-25-35 psi etc. Don't quote the numbers, just illustration of several different possible bypass settings depending on elements.

 

[Thunder]

Thanks, Kevin J, That's sort of what I thought it was. Like your saying it has nothing to do with the High Pressure or lack of. I guess it's off to TSC and get a new filter to see what that does.

Thanks to all!

 

[kevin j]

filter should not matter either. slight change in back pressure maybe. But it is a very good practice to change it just in case there is garbage moving around and causing the root problem.

Need a pressure gauge in the line between pump and control valve.
I will bet the relief valve is dirty stuck rusted broken, etc. It shoudl be in the inlet section of the manual control valve (usually)

 

[triptester]

There should be a relief adjustment on the valve. It will be on the return side of the valve on this style of valve. Remove the cap plug and adjust the internal screw. Proper adjustment requires a gauge before the valve.

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[triptester]

I'll try again on the pics
First pic is cap over RV adjustment

Second is of adjustment screw

 

[Thunder]

Thanks Triptester, Thats what I was looking for.

But I'll wait until I get a gauge before messing with it. Does that relief adjustment take a screwdriver or allen head? The overall problem with the splitter is that it doesn't feel like the 2nd stage High Pressure part of the pump is working or it's not sensing to kick into the high pressure mode. Hence, it stalls in any tough wood (wyes, bent or other such wood). It used to blast right thru anything. I also, don't hear the engine load up anymore like it use to when the 2nd stage high pressure used to kick in. What tells the pump to kick in to the 2nd stage high pressure? Is pressure relief valve or something in the pump? What kind of PSI should I see on the gauge for 1st and 2nd gauge.

Thanks, to everone.

 

[leon]

thunders log splitter

Thanks Triptester, Thats what I was looking for.

But I'll wait until I get a gauge before messing with it. Does that relief adjustment take a screwdriver or allen head? The overall problem with the splitter is that it doesn't feel like the 2nd stage High Pressure part of the pump is working or it's not sensing to kick into the high pressure mode. Hence, it stalls in any tough wood (wyes, bent or other such wood). It used to blast right thru anything. I also, don't hear the engine load up anymore like it use to when the 2nd stage high pressure used to kick in. What tells the pump to kick in to the 2nd stage high pressure? Is pressure relief valve or something in the pump? What kind of PSI should I see on the gauge for 1st and 2nd gauge.

Thanks, to everone.

If I remember correctly the pump has a cartridge in the rear of the pump that has a bypass valve that diverts oil to the slower high pressure second stage thunder-sorry its been a while-all my equipment is open center hydraulic pumps etc.


I would chat with the folks at speeco and ask what to do as a two stage pump requires a bit of plumbing to tie in a guage-I would hate for you to have to change parts until and if you find the problem as you may end up having to have the cylinder repaired. Is there a hydraulic repair shop nearby where you live?

The 2 stage pump is an economy pump that is very usefull; but a Sperry Vickers vane pump with a separate high pressure relief valve to bypass fluid when necessary is also very good.


removing the cartridge is problematic as the spring may be shot too and the British standard pipe o ring will need to be replaced.

You may need a new pump after all thunder but I would not be able to tell you this unless the pump has been flow rated by a reliable hydraulic repair shop.

The two stage pump is the part of the log splitter that operates the most in your log splitter at high revolutions per minute and controls the cylinder speed and pressure through the two stage pump cartridge which also acts as a relief valve so to speak.

An hour spent at a hydraulic repair shop to test the cylinder for bypass and to flow rate the pump would be worth the hour of expense just for your piece of mind.

does Speeco have a pump exchange program?

I apologise for not being much help to you thunder.

leon

 

[triptester]

Thunder, on the valve I have a 1/4" allen wrench is used but some use a slotted screw driver.

A 2-stage pump is often misunderstood. It is actually two pumps in one, a 8 gpm and a 3 gpm , totaling 11 gpm. The 3 gpm section pumps all the time but the 8 gpm section stops pumping at a preset pressure usually 600 - 900 psi. These gallon numbers are approx. and will increase proportionally as pump rated gpms increase.

When working properly the splitter engine should never stall. As pressure increases first the large section of the pump stops, the small section continues, then when max. pressure setting is reached the relief valve in the control valve will open returning fluid to the tank. Through all these changes the engine may strain slightly but never stall.

 

[Thunder]

Guys, Thanks for the info.

Triptester, I may have misspoke. When I meant that the log splitter would stall a meant that hydraulic cylinder would stall in the wood, not the engine. When the 2nd stage pump was working the engine would strain a little bit more (engine sound would change).
But as you said before the engine should never stall and it never did, just that now the hydraulic cylinder will not have enough power to split things that were no problem before.

Thanks again, I may have to wait till tomorrow to continue working on it, because it's raining like heck here.

 

[ericjeeper]

It sounds to me as if...

You have blown the piston packing. And the fluid is bypassing the piston and returning to the tank. One messy way to test this is to run the cylinder out against a hard piece of wood,(one that will stall the cylinder) and shut it off. Now remove the return line and stick it into a bucket, Hold valve forward position and start pump while held forward. If oil flows into bucket. You have bad piston packing.If it does not, you have pump issues.Might also want to look for a sheared key on the love joy coupling.
Good luck

 

[Thunder]

Well the hydraulic oil filter didn't make a difference, as we sort of suspected, but it was past due on it's change anyway. I did disconnect the return line to the tank with the cylinder stalled in wood and the control valve pressed as far forward as possible. Oil did come out of the return line at a steady rate, but it was only about 1/16" Diameter stream, 1/8" Dia. max. , it wasn't gushing out full bore by any means. Should I expect no oil at all or is that acceptable?

Thanks to all,

Thunder

 

[leon]

Well the hydraulic oil filter didn't make a difference, as we sort of suspected, but it was past due on it's change anyway. I did disconnect the return line to the tank with the cylinder stalled in wood and the control valve pressed as far forward as possible. Oil did come out of the return line at a steady rate, but it was only about 1/16" Diameter stream, 1/8" Dia. max. , it wasn't gushing out full bore by any means. Should I expect no oil at all or is that acceptable?

Thanks to all,

Thunder

assuming the lovejoy coupling is not destroyed along with the engine shaft keyway-


three things come to mind immediately;

the valve spool is leaking oil around the spool and back to tank or

the cartridge in the rear of the pump is weak or leaking or

the pump is shot.



A small vane pump delvering eight gallons per minute will work well and delver high pressures for you thunder and will last a very long time.


:yourock::chainsawguy: