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Longwood Duel Fuel Furnace Mark VII Manual

Discussion in 'Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment' started by iowa, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. iowa

    iowa Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Does anyone have any experience with setting one of these up. Have a manual or anything. I just picked one up and it is like new. Maybe used a season or had a couple fires built in it. Maybe none. I don't know.

    UPDATE: I did a search and found someone on Bobvilla that had the manual. She had taken copies and sent me a PDF file on the entire manual for my exact furnace.

    I have been reading the manual and it is quite interesting. In order for the furnace to work correctly it requires 4-5 foot long pieces of wood. It said you can use slab wood but it needs to be mixed with some pole wood! But hardwoods are the best for burning as it "charcoals" up better. But anyways. It is a dualfuel furnace. Which I just thought that the propain-ng, or fuel oil burner was only used to light the wood or to heat the house when the wood supply was gone as a back-up. WRONG. This furnace is a 0 natural draft furnace. The dampner door is closed at all times, except when loading wood. Or burning only wood when the electricity goes out. The furnace is to use the propane burner to light the wood and keep it "charcoaled" up when you need heat. The coals stay hot and the flue piping stays a constant warm temp. The propane burner is to only run around 5min. to get the coals going and then it shuts off. There is a heat reclaimer just above the main firing chamber to reclaim some heat, but they said it shouldn't be run all the time. Only if it is overloaded and it is too hot.

    I didn't know that the propain HAD to be used on these units in order to work correctly! Now I'm kinda bummed because I want to use 0 propain during the winter months. I guess I'll get it hooked up and see how much propane it does use. It says that it is extremely effecient with the gas and that most of the heat is from the wood. But I'm guessing these units were made in the 80's? I looked at the serial number to see if something resembled a yr. made. The last 2 digits are 71. So that could be the yr. it was made I have no idea. All I know is it is heavy. Crate weight is 550lbs.

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    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
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  2. iowa

    iowa Addicted to ArboristSite

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    UPDATE with pics !
     
  3. CrappieKeith

    CrappieKeith Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Sounds like a deal.....

    Knowing a lot about multi fuel furnaces I can be of some help.
    I would say that you can manually light that wood .

    The only real bummer about that furnace is that there are no parts available.
    You could however like in the burners case put a new burner on it that is still made and has parts with technical service available.

    I also see the UL file number which is a good thing.
    As a matter of fact it is real close to ours....MH11057...it's only a few digits off.
    We started to make our furnces in "74".


    Well good luck....I hope she's a great wood burner for you.
     
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  4. iowa

    iowa Addicted to ArboristSite

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    All the parts are there I believe. Except for a few nuts and bolts. I hope the burner works on it also. I have reason to believe that this unit has never had a fire built in it. It has some rust on it from setting out in the environment the last 7 months. But the seller had always kept it indoors.
     
  5. Constrictor

    Constrictor ArboristSite Operative

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    Awwwww man quit foolin' around with those antiques and just get an EPA certified stove like a Englander NC30 and youll have no troubles, no propane, absolutely no smoke in the house ever, and use less wood! $800 brand new!
     
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  6. iowa

    iowa Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Can that be hooked up in my basement and blow directly into my existing duct-work? Also will it heat 3000 sq ft house?
     
  7. iowa

    iowa Addicted to ArboristSite

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    What's a dead dinosaur?
     
  8. iowa

    iowa Addicted to ArboristSite

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    It won't work in my house?
     
  9. CrappieKeith

    CrappieKeith Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Easy guys....the guy got a deal....I do know at 1st issue there will be a struggle to find parts but even if it only ran a year the guy makes out.
    i do know that they were famous for burner issues due to the high burner placement sooting up.
    They also are called longwood because you needed long wood to fill the box to get the burn times you'll need to heat a 3000 s/f house.
    That furnace will do the job ,but you'll go through the wood like an OWB does or almost anyway.

    As to the "hey get this or that"

    A Yukon EagleI wood/oil or wood/gas is the only legal"code" furnace out there and the only true wood/gas that needs 1 flue.

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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  10. CrappieKeith

    CrappieKeith Addicted to ArboristSite

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    That's not why they went out of business.
    There were many wood type furnaces that went out of business for 2 reasons.
    The 1st was that the oil embargo of the late 70's was over and oil got dirt cheap. ....who is willing to work for heat when oil was .50 a gallon?

    2nd The insurance companies were taking many hits on payouts due to unsafe installs.
    They told the dist.,contractor/retailer and homeowner that if they sold,installed or operated the insurance coverage was cancled.
    There really was no heating code to speak off. They went to the Feds for help who for the most part at the time took a hands off approach to how we heated our homes,but it became an issue which is why all states have a heating code....most have accepted the standard by N.F.P.A.

    We manged to survive by scaling back and since we have had Sears selling thousands of furnaces under their brand and the fact that Yukon Energy Corp also had thousands of furnaces out there ....parts business kept us afloat . Then add in a few furnaces every year and we made it through those tough times.


    Longwoods were very popular. I run into many that have gotten 20 years or better out of them.
    I've already mentioned the drawbacks.....
    To make a statement like that's why they went out of business is silly.
     
  11. iowa

    iowa Addicted to ArboristSite

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    My longwood will work just fine. I have a manual for it and will install it correctly and make sure all the settings are correct!
     
  12. CrappieKeith

    CrappieKeith Addicted to ArboristSite

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    If you ever need any advice you can call me.
     
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  13. CrappieKeith

    CrappieKeith Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Hope ya think I was not personally slamming you TreeCo.

    As to EPA exemptions in the EPA 40/60 rule subpart AAA.

    Wood furnaces typically have way more heat exchangeabilty and are more efficient than those typical old style stoves that had no brick for thermal mass or some way of burning off the smoke creating more btus from that same pound of wood.

    I do agree that many wood furnaces are not as effcient as they could be.
    Being the American public did not request these types of heaters until just recently(150,000,000) went to some alternative heater last year.
    There was not the demand to drive the R & D departments to justify the expenditures.

    Smoke had never been an issue until about the last 10 years. Laws will not be made unless there is a public outcry or until it becomes an issue which it most certainly is right now with the cry of global warming and the emmisions created by the mass of OWBs that have been installed in this period.
    Mostly irresponsible burners in populated areas.

    I am proud to have represented a wood furnace manufaturer that has been the cadillac in the industry for over 30 years.
    We patented the "after burn " process in our furnaces as there was never anything like this in the early 70's when David Tjosovold came up with this idea so long ago.
    He also incorperated a massive heat exchanger to go into our furnaces knowing full well that you can make all of the heat possible , but if you can not exchange it into the ducting the heat will still go up the flue resulting in waisted heat...ie fuel.
    He also designed the furnace to have way thicker and more dense brick then what you would find in a typical wood furnace.
    David also realized that wood and coal does not need to burn as fast as a natural draft wants to burn these solid fuels. A typical draft speed in a decent well insulated flue is .08" of water column.
    Incorperating a barometric draft regulator will give you the ability to slow the draft to a point that you can still make all of the 8000-8700 btus when the solid fuel is 15-20% moisture content and at the same time stay above that 25o degree mark where flue gasses will want to condense.
    Slowing down and cycling draft speeds will also give the furnace more time to exchange those heats made.

    Longwood does this to some extent however there is no "after burn" which is where 30-40% of the available btus are made.

    Sorry for the derailing of this thread Iowa.
    I hope that I am at least being of some help explaining all of this.
    My advice Iowa is to match the flue to your smoke pipe outlet of the furnace.
    Install a draft regulator and set it to .03-.04" of water column.
    Burn well seasoned wood and make sure that you bring in make up air for combustion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  14. CrappieKeith

    CrappieKeith Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Your a good egg!


    I guess one of the reasons Dave has me onboard is that I have this desire to teach and help others.
    Maybe that's why I enjoy guiding for fish too.
    Took a 7 year old boy from not wanting to be in a boat and bored to catching,holding & releasing panfish this last weekend. He did not want to stop at the end of the day....what a flame I lit!
    Here's the lil man holding his 1st slab.
    [​IMG]
    Notice on his 5th fish he was holding them!...taking out his own hook too.
    [​IMG]

    I know that many folks are really struggling with their heating costs.
    I also know of a way to heat for cheap and be as warm as you want.
    What an oxymoron to be paying mega bucks for heat only to keep the house to 60 degrees.

    Even if you have to buy wood, you can still come way ahead by burning wood in an effcient furnace keeping your whole home warm and toasty.
    Load your furnace and pay yourself instead of the oil conglomerates!
    It's my mission to show others they do not have to be cold when they can heat with less wood then they thought they'd have to work to load .
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  15. laynes69

    laynes69 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I agree. I decided to upgrade my woodfurnace this year to an epa model.
    I figured its a step towards the future of wood furnaces. Its cleaner for the environment, and less wood is always better! As long as people burn seasoned wood and burn it hot it helps in any woodfurnace. Its the people who burn green wood and smolder it to get the longest possible burn times are the ones not helping things. Unfortunately furnaces are expensive and many operate on a budget in todays society, so its hard to justify some upgrades. Hopefully things will improve with the woodfurnace industry in the future.
     
  16. Constrictor

    Constrictor ArboristSite Operative

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    yes it will heat 3000' home, no it wont hook up to the ductwork, but Englander does make a duckwork capable unit for about the same price. Im not sure if those are EPA certified, probably are. I really like my unit!

    After growing up in a house that used wood heat, my dad always used cheap stoves that smoked up the house. I swore to myself i would not have one if i ever smelled smoke in the house. For once the EPA has done a good thing!
     
  17. CrappieKeith

    CrappieKeith Addicted to ArboristSite

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    True,however if you look at the 2000-3000 s/f home.
    The fuel bill will be as much or more then a wood furnace.
    So instead of giving away that money for gas/oil and have nothing to show for the investment like renting a house you could get a wood furnace that if it had long burn times displace your entire liquid fuel bill.
    Then at the end of the year it's paid for and every year after that it would pay you the thousands you had been giving away.

    I went and found some same as cash financing for those that are strapped. They can take the cash already allotted for the heating bill and pay the bank.
    So there's no extra $$$ they are paying only now at the end of the year they own a furnace instead of looking forward to another season of high liquid fuel bills and a cold home.


    As to green wood....we need to take some responsibility in matters that are important to us.
    Putting it up or buying it early takes care of the moisture content.
    I talked to a gal one day who had creosote issues. She goes we got good wood. Cut it last Saturday!
    OMG!
    I spent a half hour explaining dry vs wet wood and all of the ramifications.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  18. laynes69

    laynes69 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Thats the thing. We didn't need a new furnace. Our old one worked just fine. We filled our propane tank 2 years ago in the summer and we now have 30% which our tank holds 80% at full with 400 gallons of propane. 2400 square foot home from the mid 1800's. But with more heat, less wood and so forth it was well worth the cost. I have 2000 in the furnace and I'll have around 500 for ductwork and installation. We normally would burn around 2 1/2 tanks to 3 tanks a year. We will get our money back this year with the woodfurnace, and the central furnace probably won't run at all unless we are gone. Another thing I like about a woodfurnace is your central furnace will last much longer in its lifespan not being used constantly. Our propane furnace is 20 year old 90% and has maybe 5 years total run time on it. For us it was money well spent. We just had to wait a couple years to get the new furnace.
     
  19. 046

    046 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    getting off the grid is where it's at... the freedom of burning wood is one of the few places we can actually take control of our utility costs. we are not talking peanuts, but thousands $$$ per season.

    burning clean will help keep our freedom to burn wood. don't give our legislators (who are in bed with utility companies) the excuse to pass draconian laws restricting use of wood heat.

    using clean burn technologies including EPA rated wood stoves is a surefire way to burn cleanly and efficiently.

    don't discount wood stove companies that's been in business 25+ years. believe it or not... there are wood stove companies that's been using clean burn technologies for 25+ years. the hard part is finding out which one.

    don't assume the technologies is not good, just because it's been around for awhile. it's an accepted fact the most efficient wood stove design has been around for a hundred + years.

    what I'm referring to is of course the Russian Fireplace design. some claim it's 90% efficient. http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1980-11-01/Build-Your-Own-90-Efficient-Fireplace.aspx

    if I ever build a new home... without a doubt... a Russian Fireplace will be part of the new construction. which leads to the main drawback of Russian fireplaces (11 tons)... it's extremely difficult to retrofit a house for a Russian fireplace. it almost has to be part of original construction.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  20. CrappieKeith

    CrappieKeith Addicted to ArboristSite

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    That sounds great but 90%....it would have to be a condensor.I doubt there's a drain tube for creosote to pour out of the exchanger. Plus it would need a forced air blower to blow out the smoke out a pipe as it could not rise being too cool.

    Here's another tidbit.
    The so called EPA rated stoves that are tested to the lower heat value method are not in real percentages as efficient as the number reflects the steam as heat too ,when in fact that is not really anything worthwhile in the way of exchanging heat.

    This low heat method of testing is pure maketing and it enables a stove to get the % that looks good on paper and it also allows those stoves to fall into the stimulous plan.
    Obama wants you to get away from oil....no matter what.

    In real world methods you would take the CO against flue gas temps to calculate the efficiency of a furnace or stove.

    Since all wood burners ie... OWB,stoves,furnaces need to have at least a 300 degree stack temp and the fires will be up to maybe 1500 degrees you could see a 70% maybe even 80% like if you burned bio bricks but all of these units fluctuate the burn rate with thermostats...well anything that cycles a bun rate is what I'm driving at.
    If it is cycling then the fire goes up in temp and down in temp which changes the efficiency of that operation.
    They do not have continuity of operation like liquid or electric furnaces have.

    The only reason you'll see EPA tags on furnaces is because 2 states require them to have them or they can not be installed.
    The rest of the states for the most part do not require them in their heating code.

    You must understand that the EPA was attacking the stove of old that ran around 10% efficient.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2009

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