Milling trees floating in the ocean!

[Jesse snowden]

Here's a fun project my buddy and I are dreaming up. We have need for a ton of lumber and are doing our best to source it in creative ways.

I'm in the seattle area. Dozens of rivers and water ways flood each year and by December the puget sound is teeming with logs large and small. the state of Washington views all logs in the open water as a serious hazard and encourages anyone to remove them at any time. Has anyone ever picked logs from the water to mill? All my co-workers are fisherman and a few have very large boats with very large trailers. Double and triple axle, 20-30' boats. We're thinking tow one in, lop off the root ball on the beach and load that sucker up just like a boat onto a properly sized boat trailer! WHO'S WITH ME?!?!?!

As always, your criticism is welcome, along with any experience. Thanks much

 

[Mike Dempsey]

I could see this being a fun and rewarding project with a few hazards thrown in. You have the big boats for towing and if they are just floating in the river its just a case of hooking a rope on it to make it towable. You would need to have a big vehicle on the beach lined up to transfer the rope to so you could pull it ashore and a someone with a saw to trim it up as it was landed or you aren't going to be able to tow it far up the beach. How about milling it on the beach with an Alaskan mill to save having to move the whole tree and just moving the planks onto the trailer. It would be far more achievable moving planks than logs.
I don't have any experience in rescuing trees like this but I have used an Alaskan mill for 15 years and know what its like to try and move trees. Its just a pity I am on the wrong side of the Atlantic to give you a hand
Mike

 

[BobL]

You need to talk to Daninvan who is just up the road from you and mills rescued logs on the beach in front of Vancouver city.

 

[scheffa]

Sounds like a whole lot of fun to me

 

[kimosawboy]

Its one of those common sense type things that to us normal people seems like a great idea...but your forgetting about the government....they want a chunk of any doe you are able to make..Anything that you find without a stamp on it will have to go to a scaling facility first and foremost....probably with the rootball .
If any of your boat friends are caught towing a log without the proper paperwork, I'm sure there is some BS law that can put there boat in peril(seizure).
You will probably need a permit (that probably costs$$) and then you can only salvage a ''log'' from certain zones??
If you go for it without a permit either play dumb if caught or pull /tow the logs to a 'remote' or better yet a private area and mill them there.

 

[Shifty540]

Sounds like one hell of a time to me! Good thing is, I live in the same town as you! Give me a shout if you guys need a hand, I love these kinds of projects!

Another option is to find some rivers in the National Forest and mill logs that are alongside those. I have a firewood permit that gives me coverage in the Wenatchee Forest area. Only 20 bucks for 4 cords...

 

[stikine]

It's doable but here's a couple things to consider:
1. will you be able to get the logs off the friends boat trailer without destroying rollers and bunks?
2. check with the State to see if there are any required permits. In SE Alaska you would need a beach salvage permit for logs below mean high water. Logs above mean high water would be federal around here for the most part.
3. often the logs will be full of sand & grit which will dull your chains quickly unless you are able to completely clean them ie. powerwash.
4. towing logs is a slow process...you want to keep the distance as close as possible to the pull out spot.

 

[Jesse snowden]

Welp, being a law-abiding citizen I sent off and email to the Washington state department of natural resources asking about this. I couldn't find anything in the state code online. Turns out I may be forbidden by law. I know I've read old articles/online forum posts saying it is completely unregulated. Not true. Here is what he said. I did ask him if there is ANY time where it would be legal to take logs from the water. With or without a permit. Still waiting for that response.

"Dear Mr. Snowden,



Thank you for taking the time to inquire with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) about your proposed activity before embarking upon it. That foresight and respect for natural resource laws is admirable if not as common as we at DNR would like!



The State of Washington owns all non-branded “stray logs” located on all navigable waters of the state, even if those logs are located on private tidelands or shorelands. See Revised Code of Washington 76.36. “Stray logs” include wood materials with merchantable value such as logs, trees, pilings, or poles. If a stray log is “branded,” the log is owned by the person or company that has registered the brand. State law permits the owner to retrieve these logs even from private land. Stray logs without a brand become the property of the state when they are recovered, even when stranded on private property.



“Wood debris” is wood, other than stray logs, that is adrift on navigable waters or stranded on beaches, marshes, or tidelands or shorelands. DNR also has authority over wood debris, under Revised Code of Washington 76.42. DNR’s preference is to allow this wood to move in the Puget Sound ecosystem. It typically is driven shore in short order and thus is rarely a long-term hazard to navigation."

Unless it turns out there is a way to get special permission, looks like I'll be sticking to windfall and DNR firewood permits for gathering logs. Darn! I was really looking forward to some fresh cedar floating my way in the near future.

 

[abbott295]

Well, that sure seems to put an end to that idea.

 

[BC WetCoast]

In BC, there are registered log salvagers who are allowed to gather the stray logs. I suspect that there are log salvagers in Washington as well. They would have the permits allowing them to gather these logs.

Puget Sound, Strait of Juan de Fuca and Georgia Straits are not full of logs because of the log salvagers.

In practicality, most logs that these guys find that are merchantable are from broken booms. There aren't many logs brought down the rivers by the yearly freshet (April-June) any more due to urban development along the rivers. Most logs that do erode off the river banks tend to be cottonwood, alder, birch and willow.

Logs found in the ocean that have been there for a while may be infected by shipworms and toredos. These are boring molluscs that will destroy any lumber you could mill unless you like the Swiss cheese look.

 

[Jesse snowden]

[QUOTE="BC WetCoast, post: 5959456, member: 18180" In practicality, most logs that these guys find that are merchantable are from broken booms. There aren't many logs brought down the rivers by the yearly freshet (April-June) any more due to urban development along the rivers. Most logs that do erode off the river banks tend to be cottonwood, alder, birch and willow.[/QUOTE]

The rest of your information may very well be spot on, but I can tell you first hand that here in Snohomish county there really are huge amounts of trees coming down the river each year. I fish the river in boats for the winter salmon runs and they are full of all species of tree, not just the hardwoods you listed. So much so that after each storm they will Park a huge excavator on a bridge that crosses the snohomish just to keep logs from jamming across its pilings. There is just as much cedar, doug fir and maple along these banks as cottonwood, alder and willow.

But some good news! I took your key word "log salvage permit wa state" and turns out there ARE permits for doing just that! Apparently the first guy I emailed is either uninformed or wants the logs all to himself! I suspect foul play...

http://apps.oria.wa.gov/permithandbook/permitdetail/34

 

[Cease232]

I was reading this and recalled the first season of Axe men. Don't know if you've ever seen it but there was a fella doing just that without a permit in Washington state. Apparently he got into a substantial amount of trouble. There's an excerpt about it on the axe men wiki page
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ax_Men
This quote about permits was also found on that page.
"According to Greg Hueckel, the DNR's fish and wildlife habitat programs director, "Logs provide a key function for rivers in trapping sediment, harboring insects and other food for fish, and creating pools and riffles where fish can rest." Hueckel said his agency typically grants permits to remove logs in situations where flooding causes log jams and it's unlikely that a permit would be granted for timber harvest."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jesse snowden]

I'm only looking to harvest freshly fallen trees floating down river during storms. Not anything sitting on the bottom or on the beach. Which is defined as a "stray log" not beach wood or sunken log.

The permits I'm talking about are for any forestry activities. Harvesting wood that is standing or that has fallen. I'll update after I've submitted the form.

 

[Quietfly]

Subbing for updates

 

[olyman]

[QUOTE="BC WetCoast, post: 5959456, member: 18180" In practicality, most logs that these guys find that are merchantable are from broken booms. There aren't many logs brought down the rivers by the yearly freshet (April-June) any more due to urban development along the rivers. Most logs that do erode off the river banks tend to be cottonwood, alder, birch and willow.

The rest of your information may very well be spot on, but I can tell you first hand that here in Snohomish county there really are huge amounts of trees coming down the river each year. I fish the river in boats for the winter salmon runs and they are full of all species of tree, not just the hardwoods you listed. So much so that after each storm they will Park a huge excavator on a bridge that crosses the snohomish just to keep logs from jamming across its pilings. There is just as much cedar, doug fir and maple along these banks as cottonwood, alder and willow.

But some good news! I took your key word "log salvage permit wa state" and turns out there ARE permits for doing just that! Apparently the first guy I emailed is either uninformed or wants the logs all to himself! I suspect foul play...

http://apps.oria.wa.gov/permithandbook/permitdetail/34[/QUOTE]
from a dnr twit???? nahhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Daninvan]

I have milled up a few logs that drifted onto the beaches of Vancouver. According to what I have been told, the city has a log salvage permit. Anything that drifts onto the beaches they use a loader to sort into piles to either send to a mill or a chipper. Some logs they also set out for people to mill or buck into fire wood.

I have found that these logs usually have a ton of sand etc in the bark so you will want to peel off the bark before you mill them, otherwise you will dull your chain very quickly. Like every couple of feet.

Similarly, if there are cracks extending from the bark into the wood itself, these cracks will also be full of sand. And if the log has been floating long enough colonies of tiny molluscs will start to grow in the cracks, and their shells are also murder on the chain.

My experience is that the larger and more desirable logs are the one that tend to have the most cracks in them and are toughest on the chain. I would particularly avoid any log that looks like it has been used as part of a boom, it will have been in the water for years/decades and full of cracks and sand, may contain large pieces of steel, and be full of stain.

I no longer attempt to mill up anything that has floated in on the tide, I find they are too dirty.

 

[markvanzee]

I have had a bog oak log milled, these are oaks that have been lying underground for 2000-5000 years. I also find these logs contain a lot of sand so i think it will be a pain to chainsaw mill. and because of the small diameter i have had this one bandsaw milled. the wood will easily pay for the costs.

I always ask the crew that digs them up for permission and it's usually no problem. its junk to them. I also had one that was property of the town, and got permission as well.

a bit different from your situation but perhaps this helps.

mark

 

[Jesse snowden]

The last few replies make perfect sense and only confirm my suspicions about beach/drift wood. I have submitted the general forms to the DNR and am also trying to contact the local city offices about falling trees this winter.

If I do end up getting authorization to pull trees from the water you can be sure that I will only bring in something that looks like it's still growing. Bark on, maybe even some green on the branches. No use killing myself and spending money on fuel (read beer) to get the job done only to have a log full of sand. Thank you for all your input gentlemen! If you hear or see anything related to this be sure to share. You can be sure I'll be posting pictures of whatever I manage to get this winter.

 

[mattLeo]

Here's a fun project my buddy and I are dreaming up. We have need for a ton of lumber and are doing our best to source it in creative ways.

I'm in the seattle area. Dozens of rivers and water ways flood each year and by December the puget sound is teeming with logs large and small. the state of Washington views all logs in the open water as a serious hazard and encourages anyone to remove them at any time. Has anyone ever picked logs from the water to mill? All my co-workers are fisherman and a few have very large boats with very large trailers. Double and triple axle, 20-30' boats. We're thinking tow one in, lop off the root ball on the beach and load that sucker up just like a boat onto a properly sized boat trailer! WHO'S WITH ME?!?!?!

As always, your criticism is welcome, along with any experience. Thanks much

 

[budget76]

there's a guy on garagejournal doing just this. its a fun read seeing him pull the junk logs out, then turn them into usable lumber