Most versatile dimensions for milling poplar?

[magnumpi]

Thanks All for a helpful forum, and please pardon my inexperience.

We're looking to build a modest cottage near Algonquin park in Ontario. We have to take down at least half a dozen very large (over 2' diameter) balsam poplar (I think sometimes also called cottonwood) trees, and rather than just firewood we'd like to use them in the building project. There is a local fellow who has offered to take them down and mill them for us.

My understanding is that poplar is not ideal (or perhaps even legal) to use structurally, so we're not sure exactly how to use the wood. Two fairly simple options that come to mind are as exterior siding (either lapped, or board and batten), or as interior paneling. Other suggestions are also welcome -- we could have several thousand board feet if we wanted to mill it all (assuming it comes out alright...).

Since we'd like to take the trees down fairly soon there's a chance we won't know exactly how we're going to use it before it's milled. My question is therefore: what are the most useful dimensions to mill these logs to? My hunch is to cut them into 4" x 8" x 10' lumber, which could then be ripped into either 1" x 8" siding boards or into 1/2" x 4" paneling boards, but I'm just guessing now -- any advice is much appreciated.

 

[abbott295]

Cottonwood as I know it, Populus deltoides, doesn't hold up well exposed to weather. I don't think the grain shows up very wel lto be interesting as paneling. My father used cottonwood for floor joists in his house that he built. 2 X 12 X 14 foot, 16 inches on center. House is 28 feet by 48 feet. How many board feet is that? As I remember it all came out of one tree. I could be wrong about that.

Nowadays you have to meet building codes (probably) which may not allow for use of ungraded lumber for structural purposes.

Good luck with whatever you do. Stickered and air dried, there will be a time lag between cutting them and using them.

Abbott295, YMMV, your memory may vary, mine often does

 

[magnumpi]

Thanks for the reply. I believe these trees are Populus balsamifera, but I think the properties are similar -- I know that they don't last very long on the ground.

 

[muddstopper]

Not sure whats legal now, but when my house was built, 1984, we used yellow popular for sheathing and roof and floor decking instead of plywood and we used 1x12 white pine for board and batten. All the 2x's where also sawed out of white pine and then planed to standard before using. I am pretty sure you cant use ungraded lumber for a spec house or if your building a house for a customer, but at that time, you could use it for your own house. We had all the popular sawed to 1x whatever the log would saw. After drying we had the lumber dressed to normal dimensional lumber. Some 3/4x12 was used, but I can tell you anything any wider than about 8 inches just cups over time, even tho the wood we used had been sawn and air stacked for several years before it was used.

 

[rarefish383]

I know on the East Coast a lot of out buildings used Yellow Poplar for the board and batten. Old timers said the Poplar was termite resistant, I don't know. If you are looking for ideas, check out the thread I just started on the Timothy Hill house. It's a "Plank House" built on Chincoteague Island, VA. I also know some folks that live in a log cabin built in the 1930's in Rockville MD, just outside Washington DC. It was built out of small Poplar logs, with bark on, and is pushing 100 years old. As long as it's not in contact with the soil, I think it will hold up, Joe.

 

[rarefish383]

On the Timothy Hill House, the planks were about 3"X12", Joe.

 

[muddstopper]

I am going to disagree with the statement of yellow popular being termite resistant. around here I can just about guarantee if the popular comes in contact with the soil it will be infested with termites and rot in a year or less. I could probably make the same statement about most of the other types of wood grown around here as well, except for maybe locust and cedar. we did tear down a old house, at least 100yrold, a couple of years ago and it was sided with popular, lap siding, and a lot of the lumber was still solid. I believe the house had been treated with used motor oil at some point in time, maybe more than once, but I dont remember seeing a single paint color on it anywhere.

 

[Mike Van]

If you have a building inspector up there in Canada, youi need to check with them before making too many plans. Some allow ungraded lumber in barns & such, but not homes.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The big reason some of the OLD blds used poplar and similar woods without rotting is, they were built from OLD GROWTH tree's! The old tree's were around long enough to build up rot/bug resistance in them.

Todays tree's are MUCH younger, and rot much easier...

I wouldn't be afraid to use what WE call poplar, for studs in a house... I just size the lumber a bit larger or nail it a bit closer together, and it's never been a problem for me.

SR

 

[muddstopper]

Rob brings up a good point about the old growth trees. Our forest have been harvested several times and the trees currently growing there are starved for nutrients. The complete recycleing of nutrients in the soil has for all practical purposes has stopped. Now before someone jumps up and says the trees stil drop leaves and they decay on the forest floor, they would be right, but very few trees of usable size are left to fall and decay. Fire wooders grab every dead tree they can and timber companies harvest every marketable tree they can. Used to be a tree spent its entire life in the woods. It lived and died and decayed returning all nutrients to the soil for the next tree to grow there. Now, timber is harvested and removed from the woods, taking with it all the nutrients contained in that tree. We have in effect, mined our soil of nutrients. A 3 or 4 ton tree will contain 3 or 4 tons of nutrients. This nutrient loss has contributed to lesser quailty trees and lesser quality lumber.
As for the log cabin in the pic's above, while those trees are smaller and I wouldnt consider them old growth, they where grown in a time when our forest hadnt been as heavily harvested and are probably a better quality timber than similar sized trees we could harvest today.

 

[rarefish383]

Not arguing your logic Mudd, just clarifying the age of the cabin, it was built in the 1930's. The trees around the cabin now are quite large Poplars. I think one thing about keeping rot under control is keeping the wood dry and treating for insects, and like you said, keep it off the ground. The cabin above is high and dry, Joe.

 

[muddstopper]

I would consider trees harvested in the 1930 old growth because there grew in a time before the timber had been harvested 3 or 4 times already. I doubt those trees where old growth cut from a virgin forest. Keeping the wood dry and treating for insects would be good advice for any log cabin, regardless of timber type.

 

[abbott295]

Also, please be aware that yellow poplar, as I know it, is also called tulip poplar or tulip tree and its scientific name is Liriodendron tulipifera. It is not a true poplar such as Populus deltoides. (Cottonwood as I know it.) Common names can be used sometimes for different species, which means that it may be correct in popular usage to use the same name for different trees, but it can cause some confusion sometimes.

 

[rarefish383]

Correct, I too, am referring to Yellow Poplar, Joe.

 

[Blackbruin]

Correct, I too, am referring to Yellow Poplar, Joe.

Poplar is ok as interior framing lumber, just use a 2x6 where a 2x4 is needed, 2x8 where a 2x6 is needed, etc....I mill tulip poplar and have used it alot, nice and straight usually knot free for quite a bit. Used it to sister joists in old homes that have large joist spans to tighten up a house. I wouldn't be afraid as long as you oversize and keep it unexposed to moisture.

 

[Motorsen]

I've been told and I've seen barns barns build from poplar. The structural wood in big dimensions. Roughly sawn/chopped to fit the purpose. I've been told they used poplar because it was easy to hoist and handle the big dimension in place and because it was bug resistant. It would not be eaten by any worms/bugs. Just keep an roof over the barn and the wood will be dry and no problem at all. So for structural purposes I would trust the poplar. But again check for your building codes insurance wise. The additional cost of using graded lumber instead of localy milled wood is inferior towards the total cost of building a house. But the story to be told is priceless.
As a side point I've also been told that the poplar would not be bitten by animal. Another reason to use poplar in a barn.

Best wishes

Motorsen