MS290 will not start

[dallypost]

Wow, this is amazing. No, really guys, with your great advice I am sure that I will be cutting wood right away.

"Very carefully, remove the muffler and hold it in your left hand. With your right hand slide the 290 about a foot to the right. Now slowly slide a new 362 in place where the 290 was and drop the muffler from your left hand. that should fix it!"

I have a nearly new 290, lets try to go in that direction for a little while.

"So let me get this straight....you pulled a dozen times with the choke on (you FLOODED IT) and then put more gas down the intake (flooding it further) ? and cant figure out why it wont fire off?....

Take it to someone who knows what they are doing....PLEASE...."

I live in a very remote area of Idaho. If I want a Whopper and Fries, it requires two hours of driving time, same thing applies regarding a quick trip to Sears. As a result, I have learned to do things on my own. Carb rebuilds on the tractor, fix the knotter on the bailer, etc. Bailers, tractors and chainsaws are all the same. The people who know what they are doing started out by not knowing what they are doing. Time, patience, frustration, mistakes and successes will all result in becoming someone who knows what he is doing. If everyone did what you suggest, where would we ever find someone who knows what he is doing?

For the rest of you, I really appreciate the help.

I have pulled the muffler and there are no visible scratches on the piston.

Regarding the compression tester, I have a good one. When I tried to use it the o-ring broke and I don't have a replacement. So, I am unable to get a seal between the head and the tester. On my next trip to town, which happens monthly, more often if where emergency room visits are required, I will get some new o-rings and let you know. However, because the saw is nearly new and because it received very good care and because it went from running very strong to not running in just a few minutes time, I do not think that compression is the problem.

 

[RAMROD48]

Wow, this is amazing. No, really guys, with your great advice I am sure that I will be cutting wood right away.

"Very carefully, remove the muffler and hold it in your left hand. With your right hand slide the 290 about a foot to the right. Now slowly slide a new 362 in place where the 290 was and drop the muffler from your left hand. that should fix it!"

I have a nearly new 290, lets try to go in that direction for a little while.

"So let me get this straight....you pulled a dozen times with the choke on (you FLOODED IT) and then put more gas down the intake (flooding it further) ? and cant figure out why it wont fire off?....

Take it to someone who knows what they are doing....PLEASE...."

I live in a very remote area of Idaho. If I want a Whopper and Fries, it requires two hours of driving time, same thing applies regarding a quick trip to Sears. As a result, I have learned to do things on my own. Carb rebuilds on the tractor, fix the knotter on the bailer, etc. Bailers, tractors and chainsaws are all the same. The people who know what they are doing started out by not knowing what they are doing. Time, patience, frustration, mistakes and successes will all result in becoming someone who knows what he is doing. If everyone did what you suggest, where would we ever find someone who knows what he is doing?

For the rest of you, I really appreciate the help.

I have pulled the muffler and there are no visible scratches on the piston.

Regarding the compression tester, I have a good one. When I tried to use it the o-ring broke and I don't have a replacement. So, I am unable to get a seal between the head and the tester. On my next trip to town, which happens monthly, more often if where emergency room visits are required, I will get some new o-rings and let you know. However, because the saw is nearly new and because it received very good care and because it went from running very strong to not running in just a few minutes time, I do not think that compression is the problem.

Lets remember I allready along with others have told you how to check and fix your issues....

I will be warm this winter, dont care if you are or not....

 

[dallypost]

Wow, this is going down hill fast. That is not what I want. I would rather have friends here than the reverse. I have never been deeper into a saw than to change or clean the filters and plug. For any that have been offended by my ignorance, I admit it, I am really sorry. For those that have tried to help, I am really grateful.

I think that I have done everything that you all suggested except for the compression check which I cannot do now because of a bad seal. Next time I get a hankering for a Whopper or make and ER visit, I will get what I need so I can do that step. If you can think of any other things to try, much thanks.

I guess that I will take the saw to the dealer and let them have a go.

Just a parting thought for a few. Most people are really great at a few things and suck at most everything else. When you live in the sticks as I do, there is no such thing as a real job, so I do three things for a living.

1. Train people ride and train cutting horses. See www.dallypost.com/dp/index.php?pub=3
2. Program micro-processors in C. See DallyPost Cutter at www.dallypost.com/dp/index.php?pub=1
3. Commercial photographer. See www.lanceearl.com

I have several forums where I teach techniques associated with these three disciplines. You would not believe the stupid questions that I hear. I always try to remember that they are very real to the asker.

I will be warm this winter, hope you are to.

 

[webie]

Ok so you think the saw has compression air and fuel . Do you have a new plug you can put in it ? Or the old old old trick if the saw is flooded take the plug out and heat the plug a bit with a torch the turn it back in . Maybe this saw is so loaded up with oil mix it cant run ?

 

[dallypost]

I have a new plug in the saw. I have never heard of heating the plug. It is worth a try. Thanks

 

[Saw Dr.]

If it was running when it quit, something caused it to flood out. Since there appears to be no scoring on the piston, lets get on to the next thing. If you have compression and spark, there are only two things that might cause your saw to go awry and flood like that.

They are:

Fuel delivery issue
Ignition timing issue

I have seen alot of saws with sheared flywheel keys that were mis-diagnosed as a carburetor issue. It will spark like mad with a sheared key, but the spark is at the wrong time, and there is nothing to ignite when it sparks. It only takes one nut to check that flywheel key, so I'd start there.

 

[sefh3]

If it was running when it quit, something caused it to flood out. Since there appears to be no scoring on the piston, lets get on to the next thing. If you have compression and spark, there are only two things that might cause your saw to go awry and flood like that.

They are:

Fuel delivery issue
Ignition timing issue

I have seen alot of saws with sheared flywheel keys that were mis-diagnosed as a carburetor issue. It will spark like mad with a sheared key, but the spark is at the wrong time, and there is nothing to ignite when it sparks. It only takes one nut to check that flywheel key, so I'd start there.

Good catch Doc, If it's flooding the you have fuel just not spark. Take the nut off the flywheel. Get a piece of rope and shove it down the spark plug hole. Make sure your piston is close to the top of the stroke. Once the rope is installed, try moving the flywheel by hand. If it stops against the rope, the key is intact, if not you need a new key.

 

[dallypost]

Sorry, I have apparently misled you a bit. The saw was running strong and then suddenly became very weak. It did not die, I shut it off. I have wondered about ignition timing though because if there is fuel, air and fire at the right time, I should at least get a sputter. I will check the key.

 

[Fish]

No, first dump out all of the fuel, and take out the plug and pull the rope
a bunch of times.

Remove the air filter, and reinstall the plug, or better, a new plug, and pull some more with the throttle held wide open.

Still if nothing, put a dribble of fuel in the carb throat, and pull some more.

It should start and run for a second or two, then die.

If it does, then you need to go through the carb and inspect the fuel line,
and replace the needle.

If still nothing, then look at the ignition.

No need to tear up a good flywheel yet.

 

[dallypost]

Thanks Fish. I did what you suggested and learned a few things.

With the plug in and the plug wire disconnected I slowly turned the engine over. I still had the muffler off so I could watch things from the front. At the point where the rings started to engage the cylinder above the exhaust port I could see fuel bubbling around the side of the piston.

I pulled the plug and began pulling the rope to dry things out. Lots of vapor and some small splashes could be seen coming from the plug hole.

When I could no longer see anything coming out of the plug hole, I replaced the plug and gave the starter a pull... nothing.

I dribbled a little gas in the carb and tried again. This time it fired up and ran fine until the fuel was gone.

I assume that this means a carb problem. I am assuming that the fuel line is okay because it was so badly flooded. I suspect that I need to go through the carb and while I have things apart, I will also replace the fuel line. Is this correct? If I am correct in my assumption, I have three questions:

1. Is there more than one carb kit and if so, which one should I get.
2. Will I need any special tools to rebuild the carb?
3. Is there a tutorial for rebuilding this carb?

Thanks

 

[adkranger]

I dribbled a little gas in the carb and tried again. This time it fired up and ran fine until the fuel was gone.

I assume that this means a carb problem. I am assuming that the fuel line is okay because it was so badly flooded. I suspect that I need to go through the carb and while I have things apart, I will also replace the fuel line. Is this correct? If I am correct in my assumption, I have three questions:

1. Is there more than one carb kit and if so, which one should I get.
2. Will I need any special tools to rebuild the carb?
3. Is there a tutorial for rebuilding this carb?

Thanks

No, do not assume the fuel line is fine just because it delivered some fuel. The one I recently fixed would actually start and idle fine, but would not run above 1/2 throttle. If I kept choking it would have flooded I'm quite sure. This crack was 1/3 the hose diameter, I'm guessing it (the crack) came into play once fuel demand increased and engine vibrations opened the crack. Look between the bottom of the airbox and the top of the fuel tank (from rear of saw). Lightly, and I mean lightly, probe the fuel line with a long, thin screw driver. Push, lightly, on one side, then the other and see if any cracks are present. You'll probably need extra light to see down in there, I use a small headlamp for this kind of stuff (flashlight in you teeth works too).

1. Carb kit? Look for make/model, go from there.
2. Special tools? PATIENCE, other than that, no
3. Tutorials? There are several good threads on the subject, (GASoline71 had an excellent one).

Good luck. I'm stihl betting on the fuel line........

 

[dallypost]

Thanks for the advice adkranger. I think the line is okay, but as I said in my previous post, I will replace it while I have the carb out. Seems silly not to.

I have done a little research on what is involved in going through the carb. Looks like standard Briggs and Straton level work, simple enough. My owners manual and nothing I have found online describes how to adjust the carb. I know that a lean fuel mix means a dry engine and I want to avoid that. Where can I find this information?

 

[RAMROD48]

Thanks for the advice adkranger. I think the line is okay, but as I said in my previous post, I will replace it while I have the carb out. Seems silly not to.

I have done a little research on what is involved in going through the carb. Looks like standard Briggs and Straton level work, simple enough. My owners manual and nothing I have found online describes how to adjust the carb. I know that a lean fuel mix means a dry engine and I want to avoid that. Where can I find this information?

If the limiter caps are still present, which they should be, you will have to remove those first...

I gave you the fuel line and fuel filter number in a previous post so you can get them, if you need them...

 

[adkranger]

Owner's manual should have the correct settings, but I have the service manual if want that PM me your email address. I liked it when they used to print out the factory settings right on the airbox cover.....

Edit: Standard setting is One (1) turn on L & One (1) turn on H

Thought that's what it was, but had to check the manual for confirmation.

 

[Fish]

Here is a fuel line off of a MS250, which is very similar to the MS290, and is plagued with the same fuel line problems.

 

[Fish]

Here it is with a closer look.

 

[WoodRipper]

Don't know if anyone else mentioned this already, but you can run a separate line from an external tank directly to the carb to diagnose if the fuel line, or tank vent, is a problem. I've done this several times. If you happen to have a plastic tank with a small vent nipple, you can push the fuel hose right over that nipple, tip the tank up and you're good to go. The carb rebuild is straight forward. Do a search here or an internet search and you'll find a good document. If all else fails, just take it apart and replace everything in the same order you find them. It's really pretty simple, and pretty hard to fail. If you replace the needle, just make sure to set the lever flush with the body, bending the lever if required to make it so. I rebuilt a 290 a year or so ago all the way down to replacing the crank as well as the piston and rings. Complicated little thing compared to my Huskies, but I got it all back together and it's been running just fine ever since. And, as others have said, pull those limiters and retune it so it's not lean, especially if you only have E10. Good luck.

 

[dallypost]

I have the carb apart and I am pretty surprised. In the pump side of the carb I found lots of junk that looked and felt like fine saw dust. How is this possible with the fuel filter in place?

The metering side was really varnished up. The only time that I have left fuel in the saw was during my wood cutting season. This generally runs about three weeks when the saw is used two or three times per week. Other than that, I dump the fuel and run the saw dry.

What else can I do to avoid this problem in the future? Or, should I just plan on going through the carb every year or two?

 

[Fish]

Remove the fuel line, then it will be clear.

That is where the gunk came from.

 

[RAMROD48]

I have the carb apart and I am pretty surprised. In the pump side of the carb I found lots of junk that looked and felt like fine saw dust. How is this possible with the fuel filter in place? The metering side was really varnished up. The only time that I have left fuel in the saw was during my wood cutting season. This generally runs about three weeks when the saw is used two or three times per week. Other than that, I dump the fuel and run the saw dry.

What else can I do to avoid this problem in the future? Or, should I just plan on going through the carb every year or two?

Water......usually from condensation.....ethenal....happens all the time....