I'll let you know when I see my friend again whether I'll be able to get cylinder work done and when. I think he's showing back up this week.
Need help with Stihl 056 ignition fix using Nova II module
- Thread starter tntatro
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Okay, thanks.
Thanks for the tip on Brewer. Will see what they have. I see the 9523 003 0440 listed for $15, which is listed in the parts manual for the 045 and you said last time you ordered they didn't actually have it new. That is supposedly the one with the integrated oil seal. On 056 models they apparently offered the 9523 003 4460 which Brewer lists for $55 which you also say you've bought before which would need the 9640 003 2690 oil seal to complete it for $24.95. But you can use either of those bearings in an 045 and 056, can't you? Clearly the $15 one is the better deal, especially if the seal is integrated, but they don't likely have one. Did the one you got for $15 come with a seal or no? The parts manual for the 045 lists both the seal and the bearing separately, but the seal is supposed to be integrated into the 9523 003 0440 by all accounts. A little confusing.
The bearings are different. It's likely you would need the 045 bearing (9523 003 0440). Both bearings will come with an oil seal already in it. You can get after market oil seals for either type from Sagenspezi. I'm not sure but I think either type of oil seal will fit in either one. In the parts manual they are listed as being the same size. I think it's best to call them about the bearings. They might have good used ones also. If you do find new bearings then you can get a new after market crankshaft for $75. I wish I new that before I bought a new OEM for $150. You can also get after market wrist pin bearings. The earlier 045 clutch side bearings have a black oil seal and there is a snap ring on it. The later 056 bearing has a metal and rubber oil seal and has a groove on the side facing out. The same flywheel side bearings fit both models.
Started milling the tree again we started with my 045, with my friend's new 660. Can't honestly say that it seemed to really have any more power than my saw, though on paper it's supposed to. But at least it never stopped running, and never overheated, so we got a lot done yesterday. We started getting 11-12' long slabs 2.5" thick out of one of the pieces, about 26-32" wide. The 8' pieces were hard enough to move with 3 of us, the 12' long slabs aren't going very far without more help. The long pieces are invariably cracked on one end or have a hole on the other end in the tree, so will probably cut them down to 8-9' anyway. Maybe keep a few that length for bar tops or cutting one side straight and joining a pair into a 4' x 12' megatable.
I think the 52mm compares in power to the 044, a 54mm compares to 046 and 56mm compares to 066. Before my 056 super broke a ring it was running really powerfully at around 160psi. I think a lot of factors can make a difference such as how much compression the saw has, how it's tuned, how much air flow it has through the air filter and muffler and how well the chain is maintained. I've never used a 660 before. I'd like to see how they compare with my 056 magnum. That's why I like this series saw so much. For the price you get a good milling saw that performs as well as more expensive newer saws.
I've never made cuts any wider than 26 - 1/2". That is the widest I can do with my small log mill and a 28" bar. I also have a 24" Alaskan mill that will allow a 21 - 1/2" cut. At some point I'm going to try to make longer rails out of wood and get a double ended bar if I can successfully modify my mill.
You should really consider fixing your ignition. All you do is dig the potting out and break the connection then run 18 gauge stranded wire to the new capacitor and ground the capacitor to the case. While you are in there you could run a new wire to the switch and add a better switch and also run a ground from the switch to the case. A heat gun makes it way easier to dig the potting out. Soldering irons for electronics are pretty cheap. I'm pretty sure if you do that then it will work as good as new. While your saw is apart you can do a pressure/vac test also and check everything over to make sure there is nothing that can cause another overheat.
I've never made cuts any wider than 26 - 1/2". That is the widest I can do with my small log mill and a 28" bar. I also have a 24" Alaskan mill that will allow a 21 - 1/2" cut. At some point I'm going to try to make longer rails out of wood and get a double ended bar if I can successfully modify my mill.
You should really consider fixing your ignition. All you do is dig the potting out and break the connection then run 18 gauge stranded wire to the new capacitor and ground the capacitor to the case. While you are in there you could run a new wire to the switch and add a better switch and also run a ground from the switch to the case. A heat gun makes it way easier to dig the potting out. Soldering irons for electronics are pretty cheap. I'm pretty sure if you do that then it will work as good as new. While your saw is apart you can do a pressure/vac test also and check everything over to make sure there is nothing that can cause another overheat.
I have to wait til I get back to the States to pick up a capacitor. I will order some. In the meantime hoping the 056 Super arrives today to start messing with. I know the 056 Magnum is equivalent more or less of the 066, but most folks say the 660 with its EPA compliance isn't quite the saw the 066 was. So my 87cc 045 Super doesn't seem too different milling than a 660. I think an 056 Magnum might outperform a 660. But hard to say, every slab is a different width, different heartwood, chain sharpness varies, so impossible to make direct comparisons. I do like the traditional style air filters better on the new saws. I think you're right about the screens clogging too easy on the 045/056, I would like to set up a different air filter for it.
captain dangers
partner 1633B (skil) chainsaw
you could try the SIG as it's self grounding only needs one wire and i've used it as a direct replacement to a trigger module on a stihl 032 aveq and it worked champion ;o) Ive also used one on a sachs dolmar which worked very well regards cd
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ignition-...482933?hash=item5ae2b3adf5:g:ji0AAOSw-jhUGrNt
Some believe the 045 super out cuts the 056 magnum. I haven't run my two side by side yet but milling small stuff I don't really notice a difference. I've also talked with someone before who was learning how to port cylinders and he said there are different markings on the cylinder like A, B, C, D. He said he thought the A's tend to have better specifications and perform better. Also the pistons are numbered and it's possible to have a poorly matched piston cylinder combo which could produce a low compression. He said Stihl claims they are all the same but if you inspect them you can see differences.
It's hard to find pre-made air filter mods for these saws but I have seen one before. You can be creative and make one. I found that a 2" copper end cap works well. It's better to offset the holes rather than center them so the new air filter doesn't press against the carb housing. I used foam air filters and they were great at first. Now having washed and re-used them so many times I think the air flow isn't that good anymore. Now I'm using a cheap cone filter and it seems to work well but plugs faster. For that reason and for more finger space on the handle I added a 90 degree elbow. It looks funny but it holds the filter away from where the sawdust flies out. I think the air filter design on these were not so good and possibly contribute to the high rate of ignition failure from poor airflow when they plug up. If you are using the fine mesh steel type air filter then you should at least switch to a cotton type. There are after market ones on ebay. The mesh screens allow too much fine particles through when used for milling which will score up the intake side of the piston.
Thanks, that may be worth a try. I just recently built another saw and put this same ignition on to give it another try. Still having problems. It starts and runs okay and now it seems to idle okay a lot of the time but it floods when idling for a bit and when turned on it's side. It has fairly new oil seals and holds pressure and vac just fine so I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the ignition. I would still have to ground it even though it's self grounding because I relocate them where they won't get hot and fail again.
After taking a week to get passed across the border in Laredo into the Mexican parcel service system, my 056 Super finally arrived the day after I left to come up to Texas. It took my buddy three days to wrangle it out of the parcel depot but he finally got it today. He took it to our shop and once he got gas in it, the thing cranked right up and ran and idled good. Promising.
I'm back again. I had yet another build to do and didn't want to buy another ignition so I tried the same one with the Nova fix that I had so much trouble with and strangely it is working fine. I still have to turn the idle down to 1800 - 2000 rpm or the chain will advance but it idles nicely. I milled a white pine 20" diameter on the small end with the ignition on a 50mm 75cc 045 and it was fine. I cut three slabs off the log and then milled ten 14" wide 3/4" thick boards about nine feet long. I ended up advancing the flywheel to half a key width rather than a full key width because it seems to have less chain advance that way and also no snap back on the starter cord. I guess I'll try the other ignition that I couldn't get to work before on my next build.
Before that I tried to run a Bosch electronic flywheel with a points coil and Nova module. The saw fired right up and idled nicely. Then I held it full throttle and it seemed very strange. I checked the rpm with my tachometer and it maxed out at 5,500 rpm. Exactly half what it should be. I tried reversing the terminals on the Nova module but then there was no spark at all. I figured it was worth a try anyway.
Before that I tried to run a Bosch electronic flywheel with a points coil and Nova module. The saw fired right up and idled nicely. Then I held it full throttle and it seemed very strange. I checked the rpm with my tachometer and it maxed out at 5,500 rpm. Exactly half what it should be. I tried reversing the terminals on the Nova module but then there was no spark at all. I figured it was worth a try anyway.
I've been away from my big saws for awhile now, in Texas longer than planned. So haven't gotten to try the ignition fix yet on my old 045 Super. Put a new carb in a 455 Rancher my late uncle left me when I was in Florida for Thanksgiving and replaced the clutch on a smaller Husky, interestingly both of them idled way higher than normal after completely different fixes. Didn't have time to get them both tuned right. Will be interesting to see how much our last round of slabs twisted when I get back. We tried to stack them as level as possible, but due to some user error the slabs weren't all as evenly milled as they should have been. And guanacaste is a very unusual grain that goes every which way, it pinches saw blades worse than anything I know, so I think it's very prone to twisting by nature. I've literally heard it pop before running it through a table saw.
My first chainsaw was Husqvarna 55 rancher. I loved that saw but got rid of it when someone asked if I'd trade it for a Stihl 044. I have managed to find a new old stock Stihl 045 super piston and cylinder assembly and also new bearings on both sides. I already had a new crankshaft. Should have a pretty nice build soon.
You should definitely fix the ignition. It's not that hard. Try the foggysail fix first and I bet it will work. If not then get a Nova type module. I'm not sure why I had so much trouble the first time around but I messed with it for so long and could never get it running right. This time it seems to be fine. Hopefully my other coil works next time also. I see that Sagenspezi also sells a flywheel puller for the 056. I wish I'd known that earlier. I ended up making one though and it's not that hard.
You should definitely fix the ignition. It's not that hard. Try the foggysail fix first and I bet it will work. If not then get a Nova type module. I'm not sure why I had so much trouble the first time around but I messed with it for so long and could never get it running right. This time it seems to be fine. Hopefully my other coil works next time also. I see that Sagenspezi also sells a flywheel puller for the 056. I wish I'd known that earlier. I ended up making one though and it's not that hard.
powerking
ArboristSite Guru
Def following this thread...I got a 056 Super for free back in early spring......I replaced the rings with caber rings and the compression is great 150lbs..I had no spark, so I did the Foggysail fix, and I got spark!!! I have tried everything I can think of, but I cannlt get this thing to start....I can get a pop or 2 after pulling 15 times, but thats about it. Plug is soaked and fuel runs back out the carb after about 3 pulls. I have tried taking the key out and adjusting the timing, still nothing....Has anyone ever seen the trigger module go bad? I've got fuel, I ve got a nice strong blue spark...just no run......This has sat on the back burner for a while, but now the bench is empty once again.......Im open to any advice to get her going
With the foggysail fix I'd keep the flywheel key in. I can think of a some things to try if you haven't yet.
Check that the choke lever is closing all the way by turning it at the carburetor with your fingers. I had trouble starting one once because the choke was not completely closing. I fixed it by bending the choke lever linkage so it would pull the choke closed better. Do not engage the throttle lock when choked.
Double check your carburetor to make sure all the parts are in the right way and make sure the metering lever is the right height and needle valve is in good shape. It may be a good idea to remove all the parts from the carb and soak the carb in carburetor/parts cleaner for a few days or more and put all the small parts, diaphragms, and gaskets in a jar of kerosene to soak also. Then after a few days spray the carb down with carb cleaner and spray through all the holes with the straw to clean them out. An old carb might need that extra cleaning. Make sure you remove the screen and soak with the small parts also.
Check the spark arrest screen in the muffler. Make sure your air filter is not plugged and has plenty of air flow. If it floods again then put a zip tie on the handle tight enough so you can slide it over the throttle at wide open throttle and try drop starting it that way. If it's flooded it will be hard to start. It may take ten to twenty pulls. Do this without the choke on.
If you have a pressure/vac tester then check for leaks. Also inspect the impulse line where it connects to the carburetor and make sure there is no gas leaking. Old fuel lines on these can either harden or get too soft. Inspect the fuel line. If you have a pressure tester then remove the fuel filter and put about 5psi pressure in the line and that will test both the carb and the line. The fuel lines can sometimes leak at the fitting. If the fuel filter is questionable then replace it with a new Stihl branded filter.
If you have ruled out air flow, carburetor and air leak problems then maybe it is the ignition. I personally like the foggysail fix better so I would try to make that work first. I did manage to get the trigger module fix to work good. It's just that the chain will advance at anything over 2,000 rpm but it idles nicely at 1,800 to 2,000 so that is good. I suspect that on my two ignitions that did not work for with the foggysail fix that it was the trigger. The spark was intermittent, sometimes it would start and run and other times there would be no spark at all. I have to revisit the other coil that I couldn't get to work last time and see if I have better luck this time with the Nova module.
What do you get when you pour a little gas into the cylinder? The Husky 455 I just repaired would start when I poured gas in the cylinder, and keep running when I kept it revved up, but would never do a thing about starting, not even a pop, without some gas in the cylinder. I got an OEM carb for $29 rather than bother with trying to clean up the existing one, and it immediately cranked up upon installation. When my Stihl 045 Super has good spark, it starts up second or third try every time. Gas plus good spark should produce a lot more than you're getting. If you don't get anything with gas in the cylinder, sounds like you're not getting consistent spark. When I take my 045 Super apart (it has a bad ignition) and put it back together, I often get some spark initially but it doesn't stay consistent. I would agree if the gas side is ruled out that there's a decent possibility the foggysail fix didn't quite take.
If the metering lever is too high then that can throw off the carb settings and also cause gas to spit out the carb. If that were the problem then an alternative to fixing it properly would be to turn the L screw in to about a half turn out and try to start it and then try 5/8, then try 3/4 turn out. I've had several chainsaws in the past that I got to start by messing with carb settings. Just because they don't start at one turn out doesn't always mean they won't start. You can have excellent spark and the saw won't start if the carb adjustments are off. I had a clone ms381 that I got to start with the carb settings at about two turns out. It had a massive air leak in the cylinder gasket. The first time I did the foggusail fix I got my saw back together and couldn't get it to start. I put gas in the carb and it would start but run like crap and only if I held it full throttle. I thought I'd screwed up doing the fix, then turned the L to 3/4 turn and it started right up and ran perfectly. I later learned it was because the metering lever was too high. Now instead of messing with the settings I clean the carb and adjust the lever and set the screws to where they should be and check for air leaks. Also make sure there is good air flow because blocked air flow can cause flooding. By systematically going through possible problems it raises the odds of pinpointing the problem.
powerking
ArboristSite Guru
Here is what my spark looks like...This was from when I did the fix back in April
The spark looks very strong. Your plug gap looks wide. Maybe set it to .020". Have you checked the choke lever to rule out that?
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