New chain sharpening tool

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Do you mean the Stihl USG Universal Chain Sharpener
or one of these Stihl raker setting tool
attachment.php

?



Before commenting any further I need to know your gullet width.
The gullet is measured from the front of the raker to the very back of the gullet.

BTW note how the Stihl raker setting tool comes in different sizes. Some folks that know buy a set of the 0.025", 0.030" and 0.035" and use the deeper ones with more worn cutters. Trouble is that 0.035" is still too high for cutters once they are past about half way worn.

Oregon have 0.025, 0.030, 0.040 , 0.050, 0.060 and 0.070 depth gauges setting tools (see Bailey's - Files & Accessories > Depth Gauge Tools > Oregon Raker Gauges) but the increment between the sizes of gauges of 0.010" may be a tad too much for optimising raker angles.

Lets say your gullet is at 0.30, using the 0.030 raker gives a raker angle of 5.7º, a touch wussy but otherwise OK but maybe you want to be cutting a bit more aggressively so you go to the 0.04" gauge, but this gives an angle of 7.6º which may be too much. Using the Stihl gauge of 0.035" produces and angle 6.7º which is maybe more like what you want.

So if you don't wish to mess with digital angle finders or callipers to set the rakers etc then get your self a set of the orgeon gauges up to the 0.050" and toss in a Stihl 0.035" gauge since oregon don't have one.

BobL-

the gullet width is 8mm. i just posted a photo of three teeth but didn't notice until i processed them that i should have blown off the chain. that being said, i lowered the gullets so that a 7/32 carbide cutter would produce enough hook to facilitate self feeding and used your technique and set the depth gauges to 6 degrees. i tested it on a conifer, ponderosa pine and a deciduous wood, balsam poplar, two woods i have in the fire wood pile. it cut well though i'm not completely satisfied with performance in the soft pine. that's the tool. i think it is .025" or .6mm.

it must be 0:dark thirty in perth. it's beer:30 here.
 
BobL-

I watched your youtube vid and read thru the links you provided. I acquired an angle finder, the kind that doesn't need batteries. the actual metal cutting was done on an oregon grinder. attached is a photo of the semi-chisel, low kickback chain that, though razor sharp, depth gauges set with the stihl tool, cut miserably. it now buzzes thru conifer and deciduous wood. the angle finder measured approximately 6 degrees. callipers measured about -.7mm on the depth gauges. i see now that i should have blown off the chain. it just cut two cookies.

The first thing I notice about your cutters is they could use a bit more hook.

Your raker depths are fine (I measure 6.1º) however, the raker top itself is very steep (ie has zero flat top) this means the raker can dig much further into the wood than a raker with some flat top (yes the raker does dig into the wood) which in effect produces an even great raker angle which is probably why it is cutting so well.

I prefer to increase the hook and use some flat top on the raker because when cutter gets more worn it maintains a bit more gullet height which gives the sawdust somewhere to go. Meanwhile whatever works for you is fine.
 
The first thing I notice about your cutters is they could use a bit more hook.

Your raker depths are fine (I measure 6.1º) however, the raker top itself is very steep (ie has zero flat top) this means the raker can dig much further into the wood than a raker with some flat top (yes the raker does dig into the wood) which in effect produces an even great raker angle which is probably why it is cutting so well.

I prefer to increase the hook and use some flat top on the raker because when cutter gets more worn it maintains a bit more gullet height which gives the sawdust somewhere to go. Meanwhile whatever works for you is fine.

BobL-

Thanks for taking a gander at the chain. yeah, i'd like more hook too. i'm going to order some 3/16" carbide cutters. I've never seen a 7/32" grinding wheel. also, i will pay more attention to gullet depth before i switch a chain over to timberland sharpening. to put some flat top on the rakers i would need to use two passes and two wheels dressed at different angles, not impossible. i was sort of trying to duplicate the file-o-plate raker. i'm happy that you came up with 6.1 degrees. I was trying for 6.0, close enuff for new mexico.

thanks again.
 
Interesting comment on the carbide following the gullet, even if it is mis-formed, rather than gauging off of the top of the cutter. I don't think anyone has raised this in one of these threads.

Could you 'trick' the tool by setting it up with a smaller cutter, then installing a larger cutter to re-form the gullet (or vice-versa)?

Philbert
 
Interesting comment on the carbide following the gullet, even if it is mis-formed, rather than gauging off of the top of the cutter. I don't think anyone has raised this in one of these threads.

Could you 'trick' the tool by setting it up with a smaller cutter, then installing a larger cutter to re-form the gullet (or vice-versa)?

Philbert

the only time i encountered this problem was with oregon semi-chisel chain. I don't think they are ground to a 7/64" radius. my solution was to grind the gullets deeper. the screwed up thing about that is that grinding wheels are 3/16" thick and so you have to take off some extra metal in the gullet to get a 7/32" burr to settle down low enough to produce a decent hook.

here's an interesting comment by lumberjack48:

> What i think is funny, they tell you to use a 7/32 file, hell it doesn't fit in the cutter. This is because it wasn't sharped with a 7/32 grinder. Take a 3/16 or 5/32 file, it'll fit, i use a 5/32 file, it fits in the factory grind. This is the main reason you can never get it to cut as good as it did out of the box.

anyway, i'm ordering a couple of 3/16 cutters to use on 3/8" chains. i'll report back.
 
Just dreaming ...

I got a new Timberline unit yesterday, looked at ways to jimmy it for shallower tooth-angle. Removed the stock guide-cones and futzed with ¼”-i.d. tubing to see if one could fabricate a different cone with a guide-tube/not-concentric bore that would put the burr at 10o; used hot glue to make such a cone surrounding the tubing; showed me that perhaps Krantz & Company could make up cones with not-concentric bores to bring the burr in at 10o and at the right depth (fixed via the lock-screw dimple in the cone). There is a problem with the left-hand cone – it puts the burr where the indexing flipper lives (could one get by without the flipper? Or perhaps make an indexing device on the outboard end of the unit?). Krantz could sell a bunch of those tweaked cones to the CSM crowd.

View attachment 300532
 
Save up some dollars

Got an e-mail from Krantz: a ripping chain rig is "... what we are working on right now, but we will have a different body with the 10˚ drilled straight into the body, no guides. It should be available later this year."
I used the 25o version on five cross-cut chains this weekend, seemed to straighten-out some of my filing errors; still needa gage and file the rakers, I use the guide that came with my Huski saw.
 
Got an e-mail from Krantz: a ripping chain rig is "... what we are working on right now, but we will have a different body with the 10˚ drilled straight into the body, no guides. It should be available later this year."
I used the 25o version on five cross-cut chains this weekend, seemed to straighten-out some of my filing errors; still needa gage and file the rakers, I use the guide that came with my Huski saw.

I got mine last week and it's a bloody good bit of gear. Biggest issue in Australia is the distributors are ripping people off with the pricing over $280, and the carbides are $64 each!
So if your interested and in the land of OZ go to Treestuff. $124 and then $19 for extra carbides. Honestly when I got the Australian price there would be no way I would pay that!
After seeing close up I can see that they would have a problem getting to 10deg for ripping chains.
 
Got an e-mail from Krantz: a ripping chain rig is "... what we are working on right now, but we will have a different body with the 10˚ drilled straight into the body, no guides. It should be available later this year."
I think they should build the guides in as they can be replaced if the carbides cut into the alloy. Otherwise the holes will get sloppier and sloppier in the body and affect accuracy. Just my two cents!
 
I got mine last week and it's a bloody good bit of gear. Biggest issue in Australia is the distributors are ripping people off with the pricing over $280, and the carbides are $64 each!
So if your interested and in the land of OZ go to Treestuff. $124 and then $19 for extra carbides. Honestly when I got the Australian price there would be no way I would pay that!
After seeing close up I can see that they would have a problem getting to 10deg for ripping chains.
i don't know about shipping, customs etc. but... you might try going to the source:
http://www.timberlinesharpener.com/
 
An idea. Take all the money spent on these tools, give it instead to people who know their stuff, to give a hand-filing clinic or two at a few GTG's. Then go forth and practice, perfect and impart that knowledge on the next generations. Knowledge and experience are worth every cent of what these tools are charging. On that note, if there is anyone in NZ who knows their **** and would like to teach others how to square file, I'd love to pay them a visit and for their time to learn from them.

Sadly, I don't know anyone who can mentor me. Quite the opposite in fact, people are coming to me for advice which shows you how much ignorance there is out there. Like me, they never had a forestry upbringing, weren't carrying dad's saws/oil or setting wedges for the old man by the time since they were 10.

Heck, even if there is someone in Oz (actually I do know a good bugger up there whose invitation I may yet take up) and a few of us fly over from NZ. $400 airfares are SFA for all the knowledge we can gain and apply to our own gigs and maybe, if we keep working at perfecting it we can teach others here when asked, keeping valuable, worthwhile, relevant skills alive.
 
We need a GTG somewhere on your East Coast and we can all pitch in to get you over there. would be $ well spent I'm certain of that.
 
An idea. Take all the money spent on these tools, give it instead to people who know their stuff, to give a hand-filing clinic or two at a few GTG's. Then go forth and practice, perfect and impart that knowledge on the next generations. Knowledge and experience are worth every cent of what these tools are charging. On that note, if there is anyone in NZ who knows their **** and would like to teach others how to square file, I'd love to pay them a visit and for their time to learn from them.

Sadly, I don't know anyone who can mentor me. Quite the opposite in fact, people are coming to me for advice which shows you how much ignorance there is out there. Like me, they never had a forestry upbringing, weren't carrying dad's saws/oil or setting wedges for the old man by the time since they were 10.

Heck, even if there is someone in Oz (actually I do know a good bugger up there whose invitation I may yet take up) and a few of us fly over from NZ. $400 airfares are SFA for all the knowledge we can gain and apply to our own gigs and maybe, if we keep working at perfecting it we can teach others here when asked, keeping valuable, worthwhile, relevant skills alive.

files cost money too. and if you're sharpening a lot of chains, filing is too time consuming to be practical. the file is one of my favorite tools but for sharpening round ground chain, especially damaged chain, files are useless. i keep hearing tales about super sharp hand filed chains and i'm sure that like bigfoot, yeti and ufos, they're out there but you almost never see them. i have seen many guys using hand filed chains that make more smoke than chips. anyway, if a file is all you've got, that's what you'll have to use. but if you're paying the mortgage with your saws and truck, you're better off making up a new chain off your roll and throwing the dull chain in your old-chain bucket
 
Damaged chains are where a grinder shines. And rainy days, or off seasons provide the time.

Unlike Mick Jagger, I get satisfaction from rehabilitating worn/ damaged chains. But not in the field.

I like to have 3 chains per saw, ready to go. And will do touch up sharpening in the field; otherwise swap them out.

Philbert
 
you're better off making up a new chain off your roll and throwing the dull chain in your old-chain bucket

95% of chain problems that see them thrown in the old chain bucket are because most folks don't understand how to set rakers correctly.
This stems from the manufacturers instructions that indicate that rakers should be set at a constant depth (e.g. 25"') relative to the cutter whereas they should be set at a constant angle relative to the cutter.
Because the cutter - raker distance changes as the cutter wears the raker depth then has to be set much greater that the nominal 25"' specified by the manufacturer.
This method is called Progressive raker setting and enables a chain to last until the cutters start breaking off from being too small.
Some of my chains end up with raker depths of over 50"' and they still cut like a new chain.
 
manufacturers instructions that indicate that rakers should be set at a constant depth (e.g. 25"') . . .
Some of my chains end up with raker depths of over 50"' and they still cut like a new chain.

Them's BIG offsets! Some of my chains are not even 50" long!!!

Link to BobL's classic thread:
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...ly-progressive-depth-raker-generators.114624/

**TRIGGER WARNING*** some of the guys who frequent the Political / Religious Views thread will freak out at the word 'Progressive'!!!

Philbert
 
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