Newbie help with set-up

[Anders K]

Hi ya'll I'm new here, I've been trying to a do a little research on CS milling and have a few questions I need answered. I am 22 and am aspiring towards a woodworking career, and am currently apprenticing for a custom furniture maker (wood of course). I am also working on my own project which is building yurts, which are large round tents with wooden frames, which I dream of turning into a business one day. And so I would really love to mill my own lumber in hopes of saving money on material in the future.

Down to the nitty gritty, my needs would be relatively frequent use milling hardwood. I already bought a 36" Granberg Alaskan Mill jig, and would like a saw that can handle a bar that length, though they told me it was o.k. to use a smaller bar than 36" with the jig. I've read that around 80-100 cc's is preferable, so I called a guy about a stihl-044 which has 70cc but he told me it was not ideal for milling, because apparently it cuts faster but has less torque or something like that, and also recommended something like 066. It really seems like people here recommend the 066, which isn't a huge price jump from the 044. The 044 was $400 which I thought seemed like a reasonable start point, and an 066 would be around $600 it seems, but if the 066 is really that much better I would rather go for something that is going to produce satisfying results. What would you recommend for my situation?

Also comes the other issue, it seems like getting the log off the ground is a pretty good idea haha. So for my yurts I will need some sections as long as 15 foot to make roof poles. I don't have a tractor or bobcat or anything, so getting a 15 foot 36" log off the ground seems unrealistic. With some simple jacks do you think I would be able to get a 15 foot log of say 1' in diameter off the ground?

Last question, Northerntool told me I could use a smaller bar on the mill jig, but would it also be ok to cut a smaller diameter log, like a 1 foot diameter log with a 36" bar? Or can I get a smaller bar and still use it with the more powerfal saw?

I greatly appreciate any comments or information you have to share!

 

[rarefish383]

I leave my 36" bar on if milling small logs. On a 12" log I would screw a straight 2X6 for a guide rail to the log. Where there is a will, there's a way. I lift whole logs off the ground to load on my trailer by throwing a rope over a limb and pulling it up with the truck. You could build a swing set out of 6X6 beams where you do your milling, put a snatch block in the middle, pull it as high as you want with a truck, slide 2X4 stands under the ends. I used the 100CC Homelite 1050 to mill with till I was sure I liked it, and save the money for a new 660. Some ways work better than others, but lots of different ways will work. Takes a sharp, sharp saw. Here's a couple pics, Joe.

 

[IyaMan]

Welcome to the site!

First off, bigger is better when milling, so go with a 066... at least. As this is a potential business, you may someday go for even more. (But since you're just getting started and not fully committed, don't jump into a 088 yet.) There's not just the consideration of what the saw can do, but also what you want to do (more saw = less time & effort, but also more gas $).

As for what can be done with a 36" Granberg, well, it just means you can't mill more than 36" width (actually, not quite 36", but more on that in a moment). Essentially, what you have there is something that clamps to your bar with a max range of 36". This can be clamped to a 36" bar, or even a 60" bar, but you'll still only be able to mill at (not quite) 36" width (that is, the amount of width that fits between the two bar clamps). You can also adjust that thing down shorter to whatever bar size you have, such as a 28" bar, but then you'll only be able to mill with that width.

As far as what you can actually mill with a 36" bar, it'd really be only about 32" of wood width. The rule of thumb on the Granbergs is to subtract about 4" to account for the mill side pieces and the fact that you can't clamp onto the nose sprocket. So if using a 28" bar, you'd have about 24" width available to mill with.

You didn't mention chain, but this is another consideration, and the size of chain you use would be based on the type of saw and the bar. But regardless, it'd be best to get mill chain with a thinner width like .050. (this would be a whole other post or something you should look up. Check BobL's Milling 101 or do a search on the site for more info).

Also, having a shorter bar available for less than max width wood could be a good idea since its a bit easier on the saw, its easier on you to manage, its less teeth to sharpen, and its overall less expensive to set up. Longer bars also require more oil to lubricate as well, so an auxiliary oiler may be necessary. You said you are looking to make yurt beams, which would be fairly thin (actually, real yurts just use un-milled thinner logs... cause there's not much big wood in Mongolia!). So once slabbed out, you probably won't need to have a 36" bar to make 4" beams (or less), unless you start quadrupling up the slabs, and even then a 24 or 28" bar will easily handle it. But if all you have is a 36" bar, you can still mill a 12" trunk no problem.

As far as power of saw vs. length of bar, all saws have a recommended minimum and max bar length, so something like a 066 would probably have a minimum of 20" and max of 36" (but I'm not a Stihl expert, so someone will probably be on here momentarily to more accurately define this...). Essentially, too much bar for too little engine would be bad, as well as vice-versa.

Regarding lifting wood, you realize that a 36" (or 32") piece of tree need not be lifted to be milled for the first foot or so since such thickness is already about waist height. Also, you realize that a 15 foot 36 or 32" hardwood trunk is a pretty massive multi-ton hunk of wood that is tough to manage without heavy equipment, and most people wouldn't really considering chainsaw milling such a thing down to 4" tent beams. You may want to start off smaller to begin with no matter what (with both saw/bar and tree size) until you get a feel for things. As stated, your Grandberg can adjust down to a shorter bar, and as you get a better understanding you can always upgrade/invest to a longer set-up.

Good luck!

 

[rarefish383]

Here's a 12" Hemlock log with a 660 with 36" bar. I used to keep two 100 CC saws ready, one with a 36" bar, and one with a 24"bar. I changed saws in the mill one time, never again. It was 100 degrees out and by the time I readjusted the mill for the shorter bar I was cooked. Then I had to switch back to the longer bar. You can just switch bars, but you still have to readjust the mill. It was quicker to have two saws ready.



With the power head up close to the log, the long bar helps counter balance the log and mill. With the short bar on a big power head, it seemed to want to twist the whole log, make it roll toward the power head. You could chock the log so it won't roll, but with the long bar I never have trouble with the log trying to roll, so don't bother. Check out the other newbie thread to see more pictures, Joe.

 

[Anders K]

Good stuff! Also I forgot to mention that my plan is to have a tree service dump logs off at my house so hopefully they'll have nice stuff sometimes, and I'll probably be able to ask for certain specifications like rough log size or hardwoods only unless it's a desirable softwood, but it might also be pretty luck of the draw what I'll end up with. That's what I'm hoping for anyways, I guess I'll have to wait and see how that ends up working out. If not I do have a small truck with a trailer but it's 4 cylinder and 2-wheel drive so there's limitations. I probably couldn't bring big logs home with me with my little truck but I reckon I could go out somewhere and mill on site then load the boards on the trailer and haul it home.

@rarefish383 Looks like a cool set-up you use! I don't have access to a truck that big, but I will definitely remember that! Really cool photos, thanks for the insight.

@IvyMan Thanks for the info! I'm definitely leaning towards getting a 066 with a 36 inch bar. I didn't mention chain because I know that's something I definitely need to do a little more research on. However, if I say an 066 with a 36 inch chain do you have a specific answer for what kind of chain is best for that set up? Also I see your point that a 32" log would already be at somewhat elevated height, I think it still might be nice to get smaller logs lifted, however.

 

[IyaMan]

With the power head up close to the log, the long bar helps counter balance the log and mill.

A very good point about the counter balance. But its all a bit of give and take as a longer bar is also a bit more to manage with weight, oil, sharpening and cost. This is why multiple bars and saws is always better than a single option

 

[BobL]

A very good point about the counter balance. But its all a bit of give and take as a longer bar is also a bit more to manage with weight, oil, sharpening and cost. This is why multiple bars and saws is always better than a single option

Sharpening shouldn't matter much - longer bar and chain results in few passes of the chain through the wood so the chain will stay sharper for a little longer, the resulting slightly less load on powerhead means less pushing. Weight is also distinct advantage if the log is sloped.

When short bars are in use, to counterbalance the weight of the power head try this.

In the above image I have exaggerated the tilt .
Even though in the case below I'm using the 60" bar because of the crotch width, I found that even the slight tilt as that shown below is sufficient to balance the mill when using a short bar.

 

[IyaMan]

When short bars are in use, to counterbalance the weight of the power head try this

Wow, never thought of that! Bob, you're always the source for great info and solutions (so do read up on his extensive contributions, Anders K)

 

[BobL]

Also comes the other issue, it seems like getting the log off the ground is a pretty good idea haha. So for my yurts I will need some sections as long as 15 foot to make roof poles. I don't have a tractor or bobcat or anything, so getting a 15 foot 36" log off the ground seems unrealistic. With some simple jacks do you think I would be able to get a 15 foot log of say 1' in diameter off the ground?

In my sig you will see something called "Log Lifter 2" - follow that link.

As CSNY said in "Deja Vu", "we have all been here . . . . . . . "

 

[rarefish383]

Sometimes you just need to get a little creative. On one of the web sites I hang out on, someone said, " I hang out with old guys, they know lots of stuff", that's where we come in handy. My first vehicle was a 55 International truck I bought for $50, with a blown engine. My Dad bought me an engine for my birthday. To pull the engine he cut 3 small Black Locust trees down, about 6" diameter. Cut them about 10 feet long, drilled a half inch hole in the top, ran a big bolt through them, and made a tripod. Opened the tripod up and rolled the truck under it. Used a cable jack/come-a-long to pull the engine. That would work to lift a log on both ends. Wouldn't need to be ten feet tall, and would only cost the price of one long bolt and nut, plus the cable jack. Harbor Freight has engine cranes for as low as $179, then you could pull engines too. I use to use my engine crane to pick up the front end of my John Deere mower to change the blades. Go to the Harbor Freight web site and check out the gantry cranes, that will give you a pattern to build what I call a swing set. Where ever you go pay attention to how things are moved, you will get ideas how to build stuff to suite your purpose. If you get into wood working, building jigs, so you can repeat patterns, like the struts in yurts, will become second nature. Good luck, Joe.

 

[abbott295]

A bipod can work too. The key is in positioning the legs with relation to the load. But cable hoists typically have a rating of maybe two tons. The Hi-Lift (or similar) jack lifts 7000 pounds.

 

[rarefish383]

Yep, I have a hi-Lift jack also. There are many ways to get the same chore done, some better than others, I never seem to use the same method twice. I was using a 12 ' ladder for my milling rails, till the snow plow pushed it up in a pile. Grabbed a 2X8 to mill my Redwood logs and it was faster and easier than my ladder. Always keep my eyes open for something new, Joe.

 

[Anders K]

Thanks everyone I really appreciate your help and guidance. I really can't wait to get started. Just gotta find a good saw first! BobL I looked at your log lifter and I think it's really awesome work! exactly what I was looking for, I think I'll try to make one eventually.

 

[Hoodiegadoo]

Iyaman's advice is on point. I use both an Alaskan and logosol m8 regularly. My personal preference is the smallest bar I can get away with depending on the width of the cut I'm making and the largest saw that you can justify buying. One other thing to mention: slabs that are 32" wide and over 8' are more than a one person job to move anywhere...