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NEWBIE MILLING HELP NEEDED

Discussion in 'Milling & Saw Mills' started by peter92, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. peter92

    peter92 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Hi guys
    has any one got the instruction on how to set up Alaskan Saw mill
    Im wanting to do slabbing but need to know what size bar is the smallest i can use , is 20'' bar
    The size of the slab when its on the mill
    instruction manual would be great please
    thats for that info , i think its like this
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Chainsaw...ar-/131740197738?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
    ive never milled before and havent even seen the mill yet but ive been told its like the one above with the 2 long rails
    ine only got a 75cc power head and at this stage a 20'' bar
    what chain should i buy for milling , it might be STRINGY im doing the slabs out of
    thinking of using this chain
    Stihl 63 PMX picco
    72 DL .050 375 lp {3/8 picco}
    so it gives me more power on the saw as its only 75 cc,
    using Shindaiwa 757
    Peter
     
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  2. IyaMan

    IyaMan Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I can't say for sure, but Stihl picco PMX chain may not be compatible with Shindaiwa. I believe you need a special stihl picco bar. Someone else here hopefully will know better.

    You should be able to use a 20" bar, just adjust down the mill size to fit it. But if you have a 48" mill, you'll certainly have a lot of extra rail hanging off the edge I suppose.
    And understand, with a 20" bar, you'll probably get only 15 or 16" of cutting width due to the mill clamps.

    And with a 75cc powerhead, don't overheat it trying to mill a 5 meter long log made of some crazy Austrailian hardwood.
     
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  3. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Addicted to ArboristSite

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    If you want to run PMX chain you'll need a picco sprocket and picco or hard nose bar.

    PMX works great but it's gotten damm expensive
     
  4. SeMoTony

    SeMoTony Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Welcome Peter;
    If you look at my avatar, at my feet is a 72cc powerhead attatched to 5 foot cannon bar running oregon square chisel skip chain. I've mufler modded and added max flo air cleaner to the ms-460.that helps the saw to run cooler and have a bit more oooomph in the cut. The skip chain helps clear the chips. BobL from perth is one of the best teachers regarding milling & sharping chains and keeping the b&c lubed well. Hope you have read milling 101, if not lotta info. Mill safely 1st & you will enjoy (-;
     
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  5. peter92

    peter92 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Thanks Tony , and no i havent read Milling 101 , but will now , ive decided to go skip tooth and 30'' bar , and the last thing i want to do is cook my saw
     
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  6. peter92

    peter92 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Decided to go 30'' bar and Skip Chain in 3/8 and yes i recon i will take it easy on the saw , dont want to cook it thats for sure
     
  7. kimosawboy

    kimosawboy ArboristSite Operative

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    That mill looks like a Chinese knock off of a Granburg mill. If and when you get it go over the welds carefully as it might ruin your day if it was to fall apart while milling...
    Here is a link to instructions of how to set up..http://www.madsens1.com/PDF/AKMill Info.pdf
    Keep us posted about what you think of the workmanship, how easy it goes together....
    G Vavra
     
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  8. peter92

    peter92 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Thanks for the info, i only used that one as i havent seen the one my B/I has , but its 20 yrs old , never been out of the box
    And yes will keep you all informed
     
  9. peter92

    peter92 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Thanks for putting up the instruction , very much app it
     
  10. SeMoTony

    SeMoTony Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I did not meen to imply skip chain is needed. On a bar that long chips clog up and minimize the cutting of ripping chain. shorter bars I tend to use milling chain from Bailey's. For me the break is usually 42" bar. Soft wood ripping chain, hard wood skip chain to lower resistance on the powerhead. Another thought is that hard woods in my area are not as tough as logs in OZ.
     
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  11. peter92

    peter92 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Thanks Tony , it just when I was asking about chain I was advised to use Skip , as I wont be milling all the time I was hoping to be able to use a chain that wouldn't make the saw work as hard as its only 75cc, some have used std chain but open to any ideas , ive managed to pic up a 30'' bar , not that I will be cutting that wide , but nice to have it just in case, size chain i need is 93dl 3/8 .058
    ps what is "milling chain"
     
  12. peter92

    peter92 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Tony , was looking for ripping chain and came across this video , and seeing it leaves the timber smooth instead of ruff cut m im thinking this chain could be alright , what do you think , am i on the right track

    Peter
     
  13. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

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    Skip is not needed on a small saw if a short bar is used. I'm using full comp chain on my 441 (72cc) with the 25" bar.

    Standard ripping chain is identical to cross cutting chain but instead of a 25 => 35º top plate filing angle (TPFA) it uses something like a 10º TPFA.
    This does help with the finish but the biggest effect on finish is the skill of the operator because it is possible to get a surprisingly good finish even with standard higher TPFA chains especially in harder woods.
    Things like; sideways seesawing the mill down the log, rough handling of the mill, and fanging the mill in and out of the cut, will mess up finish more than high TPFAs.

    Once I start cutting I avoid stopping.
    I do this by using log rails for every cut and using a remote lockable throttle.
    Using the log rails enables wedges and a hammer to be place on top of the previous cut.
    The lockable remote throttle means I can take my hands of the mill and put wedges into the new kerf and I can still keep cutting by applying forward pressure on the wrap handle using my knees, thigh, hip.

    The mill needs to be rigid and the bar needs to be held firmly by the mill, even small amounts of slop will mess up the finish.
     
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  14. peter92

    peter92 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Thanks Bob why do you use full comp chain , I think I read some where , where it cuts faster but finish is a bit ruff , is this correct
    Can I get away with std chain for ripping or would that put too much load on the saw
    Is full comp chain dear to buy
    Peter
     
  15. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

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    Perhaps I should be more specific, I use semi chisel, full comp because its cheap and if required can be turned into many different skip chain combos but you can't do the reverse.
    I also don't want to have too may of rolls of different chain types and sizes on hand.

    Full comp cutters can \ be converted to milling profile cutters either immediately or on successive sharpening if required - This something that can be done vice/versa.

    Roughness of cut has nothing to with the fact that a chain is full comp or not.
    The most important factor for roughness of cut is the operator, and to a lesses extent if its full or semi chisel chain.
    There way are too many folks pulling new chains out of boxes without properly optimising all their chains and then making all sorts of claims about speeds of cuts.
    Cutting speed testing is VERY time consuming and difficult to do accurately because the exact same piece of wood can never be cut twice so most comparisons are not worth much.
    Cutting speed for all chains depends on chain optimisation - it may be possible to optimise a skip chain to cut as fast as a full comp chain on a particular saw, for a particular hardness and width wood, sometimes a skip chain may win the optimisation race other times the full comp chain will come out tops but usually there's not much in it.

    One of the few things that can be said to be correct for full comp compared to skip chain is that full comp is slower to sharpen but stays sharp longer.

    30" bar on a 30" or larger mill will give 24" of cut.
    In general I would say this is too long for milling on a 75cc saw.
    However you could ease the load on the saw using a skip chain, or use a full comp chain and not drop the rakers so much.

    Whether you use skip or stock chain, don't assume that chain out of the box is optimised for your specific setup and if you want to mill efficiently you still need to optimise the chain
    The two critical angles are the top plate cutting angle and the raker angle (or depth)
    The way to find the raker setting is to mill with it using stock chain
    a) - if the chain grabs and stalls the saw then file the cutters back 2/3 swipes and try again until the chain stops grabbing.
    b) - if it's cutting OK then start the optimisation by dropping the rakers 2-3 swipes and try, if it starts to stall - STOP- swipe the cutters 2-3 swipes and that's your raker setting.
    To measure the raker setting you have to measure the raker angle - see the Milling 101 sticky for how to do that.

    The other thing to note is that optimised cutting speeds usually occurs at settings that have greater vibe, and greater wear and tear on bars and chains. There's also greater potential for kickback although this is not that relevant on a saw in an alaskan mill.

    I realise this is a lot of stuff for a newbie to take in before they have even cut one slab. To take a couple of steps back, YES you can use a non milling chain full comp out of the box to mill but limit the size of the logs you cut to less than ~18" in diameter until you get a feel for how the saw is cutting. I assume you have it all tuned up to run slightly rich etc.
     
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  16. peter92

    peter92 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Wow Thanks Bob
    And thank you for taking the time to explain in terms a newbie can under stand
    I will take your advise and start milling on smaller logs for sure , dont fancy wrecking a good slab , I will go over what has been said quite a few times before i even put the saw into wood , like to know what im doing before any thing goes wrong , always have
    Im looking forwards to do milling and learn as much as i can and with blokes like you that offer all the help and advise i cant go wrong , nless i dont listen , if thats the case its a waste of tme me spending money learning
    The thing with chains is the one that i need to learn the most , not as simple as people think , when milling
    this thread would have to be the best ive seen so far as telling one how and what to look for
    so from a newbie to you and others that have jumped in to offer help THANK YOU
    Peter
     
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  17. Southernlogger

    Southernlogger ArboristSite Lurker

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    72cc and 60" of. Nice how's that cut..I've got a muffler modded 390xp and I want to get a 42" full skip chain and bar for...I've talked myself out of it to just a 36" but now thinking screw it just try it lol
     
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