Noodling versus perpendicular in the cut.

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Andrew Hartz

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Im running an P60 on a homemade mill. I've got a 36" bar which is looking like it will give me 32" of usable bar.

On smaller logs wouldn't it be worth it to angle the mill and semi "noodle" so that your not fighting the end grain the whole time?

How badly does it effect the surface finish? Are there ways to work around it?

This has probably come up before but i haven't every seen a discussion on it.

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I haven't done what I would call exhaustive testing so I can only comment on what I have done.
Standard milling is "cutting through the grain" whereas noodling is cutting in between the grain so it's a to easier.

If you can angle the saw a little, lets say 15º from the norma position this reduces the extent of the end grain cut by the cosine of the angle e.g. cos 15º = 0.96 so you only lose 0.04 or 4% of the end grain.
However, at the same time the width of the cut increases by the same amount so there is no real gain.
Even at 45º there is only a reduction of 30% end grain cutting and the length of the cut has increased to the same extent.
At 60º you get half the extent of the ingrain but now you need a bar thats as long as twice the width of the log!
Only when the bar is close to being parallel to the grain where the length of the cut is limited by the bar length will there be a real increase in speed.


You can try timing cuts at various angles and see what happens. Remember you have to have
- exact same log
- same width of cut
- same chain and same degree of sharpness of chain
- and of course same powerhead.

To get meaningful results is in what I would call the tricky to very tricky category. I tested 2 cuts at ~20º in 3 different logs and couldn't make any sense of the results sometimes angling made a difference and other it was worse.
 
I like to noodle at a pretty low angle with a 28" bar. I haven't timed different angles though. As Bob says, would be tricky to estimate what is fastest. But see noodling isn't all about speed. You need a shallow angle to keep the plane of the cut straight to start with, but then it will vary as you cut through the log. I probably vary from about 10 degrees to about 30 degrees most of the time. - Paul
 
Howdy,
What you are talking about is very touchy / feely, and can change from one end of the log to the other. I always called it the sweet spot where the saw and chain performance coincides with the angle of the mill. When this happens the powerhead hits it stride, and mill starts to feed itself. If you're cutting straight grain pipes, it's easier to get a feel for. If you have knots, crotches, and various widths the sweet spot is fleeting at best. I've had my best luck leading with the tip.
Regards
Gregg
 
Paul, when you say "Noodling", you do mean with no mill attached don't you? That's often referred to as "Free Handing". I think some are picturing you with an Alaskan on the saw, milling short blocks or with the tip so far forward that you are making a noodling cut. We used to have a member that went by Free Hand. Free hand cuts can be amazingly straight and accurate. There are some cool youtube videos of people making long free hand cuts, Joe.
 
Paul, when you say "Noodling", you do mean with no mill attached don't you? That's often referred to as "Free Handing". I think some are picturing you with an Alaskan on the saw, milling short blocks or with the tip so far forward that you are making a noodling cut. We used to have a member that went by Free Hand. Free hand cuts can be amazingly straight and accurate. There are some cool youtube videos of people making long free hand cuts, Joe.

Yes, I'm talking about "Free Handing" or cutting the slabs in the log without any mill of any sort, just the log there, me, and the saw. I've always heard it called "Noodling", but I am only 3 years into this hobby so have much to learn on a daily basis! It is fun to learn from others here on the Arborsite and share a bit too where I can. - Paul
 
Yes, I'm talking about "Free Handing" or cutting the slabs in the log without any mill of any sort, just the log there, me, and the saw. I've always heard it called "Noodling", but I am only 3 years into this hobby so have much to learn on a daily basis! It is fun to learn from others here on the Arborsite and share a bit too where I can. - Paul
my understanding of 'noodling" is the cutting side of the bar held near to parallel with pith/grain of log. I tried something a bit different on an ash log with a down hill cut. The bar started square with grain then used pull of chain to regulate speed thru log while the saw stayed in the sweet sound. As the teeth became less sharp the angle came back to square then slowed by my hand over the middle of slice to keep the PH song right. We all develop our own ways, I base a lot of mine on BobL's freely shared info, very often with pics or vid's. He even credits those who shared with him 'n others what they learned in their experience. Glad they all preceded and BobL for being such a talented educator
 


Noodling is used by the firewood guys to get a big block down to a size that can be handled. It's not cross cut or rip cut. When noodling you get big piles of noodles. If you are getting chips and dust, it's not noodling. If this video post it shows some good noodles, Joe.
 
When free handing you are kind of between a noodle cut and a rip cut, probably throwing some good noodles. When I think of noodling, and milling, you would need a 20 foot bar to noodle a 20 foot beam. I guess it's just a term "we" use, and is open to a lot of lateral meaning. I don't know if Websters lists it, Joe.
 


Noodling is used by the firewood guys to get a big block down to a size that can be handled. It's not cross cut or rip cut. When noodling you get big piles of noodles. If you are getting chips and dust, it's not noodling. If this video post it shows some good noodles, Joe.

Nice vid but you shoulda yelled "timber" when that big tree fell. :D
 
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