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Older 044 Questions

Discussion in 'Chainsaw' started by andrethegiant70, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. andrethegiant70

    andrethegiant70 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Hi, Peeps! I'm hoping someone has a little feedback for me. I'm putting the finishing touches (as it were) on an 044 frankensaw (see the pics). I'll be the first to admit that I'm fairly new to the 044, so I'm learning. It needed some tank repair, some oiler work, and some clutch repair. It has the older style air filtration system and the serial number on it is #132229943. From reading previous posts, I think (but I'm not sure) this saw has the 12mm wrist pin....can anyone clarify this for me? The head does have the 45 degree fin pattern on it which I normally associate with the 10mm pins.... but maybe they have nothing to do with one another.

    This thing has UNREAL compression (which is good while you're cutting but it can be a bear to start) and I'm toying with the idea of swapping to another 044 head I've got that has a compression release. From looking at the cleanliness of the exhuast port, I'm thinking that it has a fairly new top end in it.

    So, the question is, do I stay with smokin' compression (I'm serious, this thing is a bit of a pain to crank) and wait for the saw to break in some, which will hopefully make it easier to start, or do I swap to a compression release setup? Can I assume porting on the existing piston will match up with the newer style head? I remember Andy saying that the older style ports were "horrible," therefore I assume they are not the same and may NOT match the piston.

    Also, it seems to me that I read somewhere here on AS that the bolt pattern on the early saws is different than the newer ones. I believe that is incorrect, but I'm hoping someone can shed some light on that also.

    Thanks in advance.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. blsnelling

    blsnelling Site Sponsor

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    Pull the engine shroud and see if it has a decomp port with a plug in it. If anything, the compression will increase as it breaks in.
     
  3. andrethegiant70

    andrethegiant70 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Hey.. thanks for the response..... there is no decomp port on this thing.. I don't think the older ones (with the 45 degree angle fins) had the decomp port.....I sure wish it did. As far as the compression goes... well... I got this saw for a song because of all the problems I mentioned in my first post. Good for me since I pretty much had the fixes laying around the shop (except for the tank issue, and that was a "JB Weld Special"). It DOES mean that I'm only conjecturing on the "newness of the head." I have another 044 (newer style) that has a new piston, good compression, that starts without giving me tennis elbow. This one is RADICALLY different and I'm wondering if maybe that's not why they made some head changes. The only saw that I own that is as much of an elbow popper is a non-compression release 288, and those are notorious.

    Has anyone owned an older design 044 that behaved similarly? I mean, I'm going to start it and run it anyways, but I'm wondering if this is typical of the beast or maybe there are previous-owner mods (e.g., no head gasket) at work here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  4. Four Paws

    Four Paws Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Put an elastostart handle and rope on it and be happy! Compression is GOOD and hard to come by...don't swap top ends and kill a good thing.

    I am putting together an MS440 without a decomp...we'll see if the 044/440 is all it is cracked up to be. I wonder how I will I like it compared to my 046 Mag and 757 Shindaiwa.

    Josh
     
  5. Ray Bennett

    Ray Bennett AboristSite Guru

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    My 044 does not have a D-comp either, I do not have any trouble starting mine espically compared to my Jred 930. I see you have a 910 so you should be used to a saw that bucks on occassion. Are you Trying to drop start it or start it from the ground? I have found that when starting bigger saws with out Dcomp It is much easier to drop start them and do so by starting your pull gradual then pull harder as it starts to turn. That way if it bucks it does not jerk all over the place and rip your hand and shoulder because you were not pulling like crazy in the first few inches, Does that make sence to ya?
     
  6. andrethegiant70

    andrethegiant70 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Well, I have drop-started a lot of my smaller saws and I'm pretty decent at it but, in general, I like to control the saw more during starts (I'm pretty conservative when it come to having the dangly sharp bits swinging around). Unfortunately, there is no bar mounted right now and I'm on the road (I usually take a saw or two with me to wrench on during my down time) and I think I'm going to need the additional weight before the saw will even THINK of starting using acceleration forces. As is, I get exactly one rev out of it before compression stops the engine ...its that tight. It does have an elastostart hande on it (apparently, the previous owner saw the light)

    Its no biggie, gents, I'll just pull hard. And Four Paws, I regularly start my other 044 without the decomp and its perfectly acceptable. I was really just asking if other "old 044" owners had similar experiences.
     
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  7. Ray Bennett

    Ray Bennett AboristSite Guru

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    I guess to answer your question my old 044 dose not have that problem.
     
  8. scottr

    scottr Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Andre, my old 044 (built in late 95 or early 96 s/n 133......) has bit me a few times when cold starting. Way back there was a thread where someone was asking this same question and I think it was stihltech that said it took a determined pull to crank it. When cold starting your 044, does it cough on the second or third pull full choke then run the next pull at half choke?
     
  9. tomdcoker

    tomdcoker Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I know you are probably have more experience than on saws than I have, but some times I over look the obvious. I would check the flywheel to Ignition module gap. If it is not right it could cause the timing to be advanced. also I run I ounce of Seafoam to a gal. of gas. This is suppose to keep down carbon build up. Enough carbon build up will change the compression. Tom
     
  10. 1953greg

    1953greg AboristSite Guru

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    andre,
    i have a 440 w/o decomp and it is by far the hardest to pull over and often snaps the rope handle out of my hands. i cant express the difficulty enough w/ words. even much tougher than the whsII 460, which is tougher than the 066's.
    dont know why the 440 is so difficult but i think it has to do more w/ the timing than compression.:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

    also, i didnt know the newer snap caps came on the 044's. or has the handle been replaced w/ a 440 handle. cant see the oil cap good enough.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  11. RiverRat2

    RiverRat2 Serio Tree Freak

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    Andre,,,

    Just curious,,,, why are you calling it a frankenstien saw? does it have a 046 P/C???

    The slanted fins dont neccessarily indicate a 10mm writst pin,,,,,, by your serial number it should be a 12mm WP saw,,

    I was wondering if you were starting it W/O a B& C,,,, like Fpaws said,,, put a elastostart handle,,, 20 0r 24" bar/C on it and get used to dropstarting it,,, it will start easier w/ B&C,,,,,,You will love that saw,,,


    To put a 460 jug and slug on a 044,,,,,,,,,, must be 12mm WP,,,,,

    The 460 jug will go on the 044 crankcase but the bolt holes have to be slotted,,, the cyl base has to be made narrower to fit in the 044 crank case valley


    the cylinder boltsfor a o44 are 5mm,,,, the o46 are 6mm,,,, the 5mm screws work fine after slottng the cylinder holes @ 45 deg. to center of the bore,,,
     
  12. MarylandGuy

    MarylandGuy ArboristSite Operative

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    I'm the first to admit that I have no experience with large saws. With that said I have never attempted to start one either.

    I do have a lot of experience with big bore two strokes though. I raced a Honda CR500 motorcycle for about ten years and know all about kickback. It's not pleasant. The feeling on your leg when it kicks back can make a grown man cry.

    500cc riders combated the dreaded kickback problem by positioning the piston just past top dead center (TDC). You accomplish this by turning the engine slowly by hand on the kick starter until it reaches TDC. You know it's there when the engine appears to lock up. Then move it just past that point where the compression goes away. At that point it's ready to start with a good swift kick (or a pull in a saw's case). Kickback should be reduced by quite a bit.
     
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  13. joesawer

    joesawer Addicted to ArboristSite

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    +1

    Also check your key to make sure that the fly wheel has not rotated on the crank.
    Look through the exhaust port and make sure that there is not excessive carbon build up on the piston.
    While you are getting used to drop starting, make sure you put the brake on first.
     
  14. andrethegiant70

    andrethegiant70 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Hey, great stuff there, gents. Its a frankensaw only because it does indeed have a newer tank on it. It came to me that way and the previous owner had treed the beast. The casualties were the top handle, front attachment point, chainbrake, and a few little nigglers previously mentioned. I had nearly everything to put it right and, as mentioned before, the tank fix was completed with JB Weld. We'll see how long it lasts, but it feels plenty strong. Its a bit of a curiousity to me, as clearly the saw has had a few accidents, but the engine iteself appears to be in superb condition. Go figure.

    As far as the compression goes, I suppose I'll just have to learn to live with it. :hmm3grin2orange: I haven't cut with it yet, but I'm expecting great things. Not bad I think, for about $60 bucks worth of investment. The fixes were easy.. a bit of patience and some labor.
     
  15. huskystihl

    huskystihl Addicted to ArboristSite

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    They dont get any easier to start. I have a 044 and have almost dislocated my shoulder on this thing. If anything the compression will build after it breaks in. I would keep it though they are in my opinion one of stihls best saws.
     

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