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PackFix hydro by Posch

Discussion in 'Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment' started by Sandhill Crane, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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    Find the video on YouTube and write a comment. It has me hooked as a way of getting the wood off the ground to dry and eliminate molding, palletizes too for easy moving (even if you were to cut and dump into a dump truck or trailer for delivery, eliminates stacking, and cheaper per cord than firewood bags (unless you can get multiple uses from the bags). Cost approx. $15,000 plus shipping. Shipping est. $6,000. to midwest. Cost to use: I estimated $3.00 per pallet/4 pallets per cord, plus the pallet which is of course reusable. Smaller size than firewood bags means more pallets, but less weight for a tractor with FEL, or even pallet jacks. Anybody got a question or comment, pro or con?
     
  2. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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    I am still interested in this machine. I found a German firewood blog where some like it, some have problems with stacks sagging or toppling over. Anybody, any comments pro or con? Would love to find someone with first hand knowledge of using one.
     
  3. cantoo

    cantoo Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Lots of videos on this type of machine. Here is one that says homemade, maybe you can contact the builder? New would be too expensive for me but building one yourself or using a local shop would save you expensive transportation costs.
     
  4. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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    That is pretty much a copy of the basic model. The Hydro is an optional turntable base with two fill cylinders. The turntable allows two things. It moves the full cylinder from under the end of the conveyor, which is necessary, and the empty one is rotated in its place. I'm just by myself, so I can not wrap one while loading the other, but I could fill two, wrap two. I am also set up to cut about a half to three quarters of a cord at a time on the log deck/cut table before reloading. Which means when I start the diesel forklift I can run it a bit, accomplish several things, not on/off to move a pallet.
    Of course it doesn't end here. I would need a bigger truck to haul the piggyback lift for palletized firewood, a rather large pole barn, and a... processor. I'm sure I forgot something. Maybe a propane lift for the pole barn.
    I might have to refigure the 'true cost' with all that factored in. Would $150k be about right?
     
  5. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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    Was hoping to get an email answering some questions on this equipment. My adult son is skeptical. Not much talk or opinion here, so I priced checked a flight to Austria. Ha... That ain't going to happen.
     
  6. cantoo

    cantoo Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Sandhill, it's my opinion that we are behind the times as compared to Europe, Australia and a few other places. We have an abundance of wood and relatively cheap labor so we don't automate things as much as these other countries. Fuel is also cheaper and maybe the safety rules aren't quite as strict, at least not on your own property anyway. They have some really cools toys over there and some pricy ones too. We have horsepower and git r dun attitude. I've never seen that type of set up around here, most big guys around here just drop piles off the conveyor about 30' high and long rows. Scoop it up with loaders, dump it in a truck and drop it off at customers in the fall. Smaller guys might stack it but I doubt they get much more money for the extra labor.
     
  7. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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    IMG_3477.jpg
    Dumping in a pile from the conveyor gave me moldy, ugly firewood. Although beautifully stacked, it is far to labor intensive to be practical. I built two styles of racks for seasoning and handling, but they have started rotting after four to five years. (top photo: bottom of left rack; photos below: feet are rotted.) IMG_3500.jpg IMG_3497 (1).jpg IMG_3496.jpg IMG_3494.jpg
    Posch PackFix Hydro. Hydro is one of three base options: turntable with double drum, and gas engine. The turntable moves the filled drum out from under the conveyor and rotates the empty drum under the conveyor. If you have two people working (which I've not had yet), splitting can resume while wrapping the full drum. Each pallet is 1/4 cord, 32 to 35 cubic ft. of stacked wood. The drum is 1.6 cu. meters x 4 = 226 cu. ft. per loose cord palletized. So far I have done ten cord, well, 41 pallets - 2. My last Posch post inquiry (above) was April 14. I ordered it the next day, and started cutting two semi loads of rounds while waiting. I have had it a few weeks, set it up, then moved it, after getting a tree guy to drop some dead limbs. The photo above shows the log cutting bench, but I have moved that as well while splitting rounds. I'm going to stick my neck out here. Ten cord done, ninety more by Christmas... IMG_3504.jpg IMG_3509 (1).jpg IMG_3510.jpg
    The last two photos I'm blaming on the dog...
     
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  8. cantoo

    cantoo Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Looks like you are getting it done. Now the rounds table. Have you considered making a "bench" to set your rounds crates on to get them up to working height? You move them with the forklift anyway.
    I bought this at a sale last weekend, might end up as a sloped rounds table. I also bought a steel topped one on wheels that is about 8'x10', it would likely work better but the long one would hold more rounds.
     
  9. muddstopper

    muddstopper Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I'll say this, the packfix seems to make really neat bundles. The netting should allow the wood to dry as long as you have air flow. I do wonder how well the stacks will hold up as the wood dries. One question I have about delivery. You have a forklift to load the pallets on your truck, how do you unload at the customers house. I am guessing you cut the netting and throw the wood off by hand.
     
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  10. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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    It is all new to me. I do not know anyone else who has this machine to share with, to see what they are doing. I'm winging it...

    What I was doing no longer worked. I needed to change something.
     

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  11. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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    The wood rack full of rounds in the picture next to the SuperSplit (post #7) is 4' tall from top of bottom rail to top of upright. From the ground to top of bottom rail is 9", plus the rounds are 6"-12" above the upright. In short it is tall enough already, and it is also a temporary situation. When the precut rounds are all split there will be a staging bench set up with the cutting table. Rained out twice today...but making progress. Just quit raining, but I'm done for the day.
     
  12. ValleyFirewood

    ValleyFirewood Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Where do you source the wrap?

    I'm working on a contract where I need about 300 cords of seasoned wood a year.

    I'm debating the Posch machine.

    I've been using vented bulk bags, cost about $12 ea, should last 5-6+ years. (I have some regular ones *non vented&* from 2009)

    I traded a trailer load of pallets for a case of beer, so I'm all set there.
     
  13. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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    Northeast Implement, Spencer, New York
    They are the U.S. importer of Posch, and great folks to deal with.
    Avoid the Canadian importer. They quoted me thousands in shipping from Austria.
    Shipping cost with Northeast Implement was from Spencer, New York to me.
    Check out "product catologue-Posch" on line. It's a pdf and will give you some information and different options.
     
  14. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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    I bought a pallet of 64 rolls when I ordered the machine at $100. per roll.
    Single rolls were $160. plus shipping from Spencer, New York..
    I'm getting 50 to 54 pallets wrapped per roll, four pallets per cord.
    I raise the drum 1" and tie the netting off to the pallet, and do three wraps and stop. With wing pallets, pallets where the stringer is set in about an inch and a half, I pull the netting over the wings and staple the other two sides. On 48" x 48" regular pallets I staple the netting to the pallet on all four sides. Then do six more wraps as the drum is raised about six inches plus per wrap, nine total wraps, and tie the netting off. With square pallets the netting wand will hit the corners of the pallet, which is the reason for raising the drum 1".
    I was paying $4.00 per refurbished pallet, 48" x 48". I've had to find a new source and am now paying $7.00 per pallet. There is a lot of difference in pallets. Most work well, some do not. The board spacing on top must be close together, about a 2" gap, so the wood does not fall through the pallet. Another consideration is the length of the wood. Shorter wood means more wood per drum, and longer takes up more space loose thrown. I cut 16" and split fairly small which works out to 1/4 cord per pallet.
    There is an option for a taller drum. I do not think it is compatible with the Hydro base, or turn table base I'm using. You would have to ask about that. The problem being the mast height, and lifting the taller drum high enough to clear the loaded pallet.
    You will need extension forks to move/unload the machine from the side. It comes with rigging straps attached if you have a boom or something to hook to, backhoe, excavator, etc. to pick it.
    Twelve foot flatbed. Drums are in three pieces, bolted vertically. Briggs, starts first pull every time. I added an hour meter this year. One arm of the tripod has a handle and latch. Nest the other two with notches by pushing the tripod away from you on the track boom, lower and pull back towards you, pull the pull handle down to capture and latch on rim of drum.
    The pallet of netting is separate, and I had to make a another trip to the trucking terminal. IMG_3411.jpg IMG_3429.jpg IMG_3427.jpg
     
  15. ValleyFirewood

    ValleyFirewood Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Thanks for the info.
    The wrap isn't reusable I'm assuming?
     
  16. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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  17. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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  18. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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  19. Sandhill Crane

    Sandhill Crane AS Member

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    Not reusable.
    Notice the difference in pallets in the photos.
    Some have wide gapped boards on top; some have three boards on the bottom, others five or more, some have four stringers; some have wings; some stringers are not as high and my heavy duty forks get stuck in them, and the pallet being shorter makes it hard to connect to the drum. Some photos show osb under the pallet on the turntable for this reason. In the pdf you will find a pallet diagram by Posch for what they call the ideal pallet. In Posch's photos you will notice they use other size pallets for double stacking. Four stringer, multiple boards on bottom for double stacking, and stagger top row of pallets. There are also four-way and two -way pallets. Most 48" x 48" are two way. IMG_4878.jpg
    Netting pulled over wings. I did not staple this one on the other two sides to see what would happen. It's okay, but I'm going to continue to staple. If not hooked or stapled, the netting rises up when the drum is raised. This photp is the last group of pallets I bought. Pretty light weight. We will see how long they last sitting on the ground seasoning wood.
    Edit: When processing I set the pallets aside like this and cover them later. Then they are placed in rows. The photo of the square tarp, corners folded and sewn leaving room to get my hand through with baling twine. Place the tarp on top of the wood, walk around inserting twine through corners and cinch it down. It's pretty quick to do. When covering I don't double stack. One, it's time consuming to do it so they don't tip, and two, it tears the tarps up on the bottom row. If you have sun and air, covering is probable not necessary. It seasons very well uncovered.
    Netting label: IMG_4805.jpg
     
  20. ValleyFirewood

    ValleyFirewood Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I have pieces of commercial rubber roofing to cover with.

    So far the bags seem like the better way to go. They are more expensive, but I can re-use them for many years. Plus all I need is a forklift which I have a 12k rated off road one and forks for skid steer.
     

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