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I think anybody that pays anybody minimum wage to do anything is scum and shows no respect even for himself or the business he is in much less the people he relies on in order for him to survive.

I am amazed this backwards paradigm exists!
 
Cal-OSHA does, indeed require cool (below ambient temperature) water on the site, 2 gal. per worker, or a quart per hour. If potable water is available at the site, you can replenish it as needed, but you need to carry a hose with whatever vehicle carries the water around. I used to keep a 5-foot drinking-water-suitable hose wrapped around one of the five-gallon coolers. I had an entire crew get pretty sick from drinking from a garden hose that was left under pressure lying in a homeowner's yard. You'd be amazed at how many nasty bugs will grow in the hose when you do that, hence the need for the short hose certified for drinking water. They sell these at home improvement centers, etc. for use with campers. Water that's heavily iced down can induce shock that can give you instant stomach cramps or knock you out cold if you guzzle it. Better to keep ice in a seperate cooler, and throw a little in the drink coolers once in awhile.

I've switched to buying the bottled water when it's on sale. I get 24-packs for $2 and sometimes 32-packs two for $4 all the time, at dollar stores, farm stores, you name it. I've never found either the 5-gallon coolers or the bottled water to be much of an inconvenience or expense. It's nothing compared to the inconvenience and expense of heat exhaustion and a crew that's dragging ass because they're dehydrated and don't realize it. I not only encourage, but insist, that anyone working with us takes frequent drink breaks. Production has always been better when nobody is cranky, woozy or worn out from working in the heat while dehydrated.

If OSHA insisted that everyone wears a pink tutu and silver ballerina slippers at work, I'd agree that was over-regulation. Personally, I've never met a regulator who wasn't just doing his job and trying to get employers to care about their employees. Maybe there's a big, evil OSHA guy out there who just wants to drive around all day and make up stupid **** for people to do that doesn't mean anything... but I've never met him. I've met an awful lot of people who spend half the day whining about the government in an air conditioned vehicle or bar or coffeeshop, while they left a crew of eight guys working their asses off on a hot roof five stories up, with no water or gatorade and making **** wages. Oddly enough, they're usually ******** that they can't keep workers, either. Big surprise, there.

I think that anyone who can figure out how to get a construction job completed successfully, can probably figure out how to keep the crew healthy and happy while they're at it. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation, myself.
To fine someone for providing ice water is totally insane. That was my point not the long winded bs you laid down, ok enjoy your luke warm water bud:laugh::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:
 
I think anybody that pays anybody minimum wage to do anything is scum and shows no respect even for himself or the business he is in much less the people he relies on in order for him to survive.

I am amazed this backwards paradigm exists!

You make no sense.

If I figure the hours I put in, I make about 1/2 of what my guys do.

I don't rely on anyone to survive, they just make it where collectively more work can be done in a day. But I'm still the one putting in 100+ hr weeks, no one else.
 
You make no sense.

If I figure the hours I put in, I make about 1/2 of what my guys do.

I don't rely on anyone to survive, they just make it where collectively more work can be done in a day. But I'm still the one putting in 100+ hr weeks, no one else.

I hear what you are saying: That you have no choice, that somehow there is no money to pay a person very much for their time.

I know everybody else has to get their money before the menial bastard can "earn" minimum wage.

Still, in this field especially, minimum wage is a dirty word.
 
You make no sense.

If I figure the hours I put in, I make about 1/2 of what my guys do.

I don't rely on anyone to survive, they just make it where collectively more work can be done in a day. But I'm still the one putting in 100+ hr weeks, no one else.

Your last statement makes me believe that you don't like it either.
 
You make no sense.

If I figure the hours I put in, I make about 1/2 of what my guys do.

I don't rely on anyone to survive, they just make it where collectively more work can be done in a day. But I'm still the one putting in 100+ hr weeks, no one else.

If you're making half of what your guys are and their making miminmum wage, then you need to rethink your business model, 100 hour weeks at $5/hr is not sustainable. If you are paying your guys $10/hr (nice round number for this example), they should be earning you between $25 and 30/hr. That is the revenue from their work should be the equivalent of $25-30/hr.

I make around $25/hr, but my charge out rate (or the rate used in estimating) is $90. The rest pays for taxes, insurance, equipment, repairs, salesmen/management, and profit.

The effect of minimum wage increases over time works its way through the system. You pay more in wages, you have to charge more. If you are a supplier or wholesaler, then the people you supply have to charge more to match your increases. The people who really get screwed are those on a fixed income, seniors etc because pension increases don't match the increase in the Cost of Living.
 
If you're making half of what your guys are and their making miminmum wage, then you need to rethink your business model, 100 hour weeks at $5/hr is not sustainable. If you are paying your guys $10/hr (nice round number for this example), they should be earning you between $25 and 30/hr. That is the revenue from their work should be the equivalent of $25-30/hr.

I make around $25/hr, but my charge out rate (or the rate used in estimating) is $90. The rest pays for taxes, insurance, equipment, repairs, salesmen/management, and profit.

The effect of minimum wage increases over time works its way through the system. You pay more in wages, you have to charge more. If you are a supplier or wholesaler, then the people you supply have to charge more to match your increases. The people who really get screwed are those on a fixed income, seniors etc because pension increases don't match the increase in the Cost of Living.


I think he mean that since he owns the business he is never really "off the clock".

And that sure is true!!


He doesn't make any money when he is fixing the splitter, talking to clients, doing paperwork, etc.


What is sounds like he is doing is just finding people for cheap when he needs some things done. This kinda work only the most desperate of Mexican will do... or some poor dumb white kid for a day or two... a black guy would kill you if you tried with him.

I am sure he needs more than just a " wood stacker".

The one guy around here just buys loads and loads of wholesale firewood made from a huge company who does whatever to get ahold of all the trees they are cutting down around here to build more shopping malls and condos.

So to ask for 50 or more dollars to stack firewood ,well, that's the low end.

Said and done a "cord" gets to your house for about 300 the "legal" way around here. If you want it stacked at the client's you would have to charge around 50-70 bucks.

These city folk farmers are better off with oil and propane, the firewood is a luxury. There is no way you can tell me you can save money by using firewood that you have to pay for. There is just to much involved to make it cost more than oil or propane.





Of course this wood sucks and doesn't even measure up to a real cord but I don't think that matters. It seems the more you make them pay the more they like the firewood but that can't be! Can it?
 
If you took a 100 Millennials and a 100 born in 1920's handed them shovels told them to start digging who do you think would have the deepest hole?
Neither, the millennials would fall into the holes dug by the old folks and would be crying about job site safety, hypotheticals pssst.
Not to many college students can change a spare tire.
Ask them how many miles to the gallon their car gets, no, not what the lie o meter says o_O.
The High Schools have all but done away with Home Economics & Shop Class: this, along with the demonization of HardWorking Heterosexual Men, has caused this crop of no nothings.
That's the truth Heath.
Easy to tell if a new guy is going to be good. 1. If he/she works hard but not too hard to kill them self in 2 hrs.
2 What they bring for food n drink to the job site.
3 do they observe there surroundings and look to the sound of a saw
4 pick up a rake and put it to use
They got their water, well some, and chips lol.

Bottom line is generally, people don't want to work hard. Seems like more and more people are allergic to sweat.
I found I was allergic to it yesterday, it burned my eyes, and it made my safety glasses dirty.
 
I think he mean that since he owns the business he is never really "off the clock".

And that sure is true!!


He doesn't make any money when he is fixing the splitter, talking to clients, doing paperwork, etc.


What is sounds like he is doing is just finding people for cheap when he needs some things done. This kinda work only the most desperate of Mexican will do... or some poor dumb white kid for a day or two... a black guy would kill you if you tried with him.

I am sure he needs more than just a " wood stacker".

The one guy around here just buys loads and loads of wholesale firewood made from a huge company who does whatever to get ahold of all the trees they are cutting down around here to build more shopping malls and condos.

So to ask for 50 or more dollars to stack firewood ,well, that's the low end.

Said and done a "cord" gets to your house for about 300 the "legal" way around here. If you want it stacked at the client's you would have to charge around 50-70 bucks.

These city folk farmers are better off with oil and propane, the firewood is a luxury. There is no way you can tell me you can save money by using firewood that you have to pay for. There is just to much involved to make it cost more than oil or propane.





Of course this wood sucks and doesn't even measure up to a real cord but I don't think that matters. It seems the more you make them pay the more they like the firewood but that can't be! Can it?
Firewood here still 175 to 200 cord delivered and stacked if your lucky! Thats true 128 cu ft too
 
Firewood here still 175 to 200 cord delivered and stacked if your lucky! Thats true 128 cu ft too
That's cheap, lot of labor & expenses, no money in the wood.
I feel it's best to sell a load of rounds right off the trailer when possible. I also like to split it right off the trailer as it saves a step, or two.
 
I am a fan of rental equipment, when it breaks you call for repair or replacement. Maintenance costs are reduced and lease fees are a direct right off.
 
That's cheap, lot of labor & expenses, no money in the wood.
I feel it's best to sell a load of rounds right off the trailer when possible. I also like to split it right off the trailer as it saves a step, or two.

I agree, dang cheap, but we do not know his market,, we would get $400 a full cord for euc delivered but not stacked, now we can barely give it away.
The suburban area folks have their sources but urban san diego has fireplaces that are gas with a fake stuff.
Jeff
 

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