PSG caddy vs Jack vs Kuuma Vapor vs Napoleon HMF150 --yes, another "help me pick a wood furnace"

[spadjen]

I have a drolet heatmax now which heats my house well. I wish I had longer burn times with it, but not sure if it is the house or the furnace. Unfortunately the furnace needs to be replaced so looking at options.


I have a 1.5 sotry 1600 sq foot house that has air infiltration problems, which maybe be mostly addressed this year. Only other back up heat we have is a propane fireplace. Duct work in place from an oil burner that has been removed. Looked at the options of a unit that can have an oil or electric element installed for back up heat. This is out of budget now, but the flexibility to add one in the future would be nice. However, $2,200 for an oil add on is pricey and could prob set up a monitor heater at a fraction of that.

So the goal here is less wood is best. having a thermostat and high efficiency. Oh, and something that will last more then a year.

Looked at the PSG caddy, the Jack and super jack, the Kuuma Vapor 100 and the Napoleon HMF150.

I was leaning towards the caddy for the efficiency and epa rating. The jack is built to last and has a better warranty but concerned they have no epa or raw data testing for there efficacy. The vapor 100 has the best specs but cant add a 2nd source of heat to the unit. The price tag is more of an issue with this one. an extra $1500 buys a lot of wood. at 10% more efficient it is like having 10% wood then the 5 cords I uses. It would take too long to recoup the cost unless there is pricing out there I don't know about. I am being hard sold on the HMF150 but looks to be relatively new and not much information out there.

Since I have an issue with my furnace speed is also something to consider. The Kumma is mid January. the HMF150 is available now, and the caddy I am not sure? I think 3-4 weeks.

Also, If I had the money I would by the best out there, a house south of the boarder. Since I am trying to save money, one must consider that the high cost units would take longer to recover from. I don't get my wood free, its about $200 a cord but a lot cheaper then oil.

 

[iowa]

I have a Kuuma VF 100 and love it!! Some of the things I enjoy:
1. Long burn times. I load at 6am and 9pm. Only when it's in the single digits do I need to put a small load in when I get home from work.
2. CLEAN burns. I am on my 3rd yr of burning with the Kuuma. I have yet to sweep my chimney. It's as clean as it was the first day I installed the furnace. I vacuum out the heat exchanger and run a brush through the stove pipe thats inside my house once a yr. before I start my burning season. That right there is probably the biggest thing. SAFETY and piece of mind.
3. It takes every ounce of energy from the wood and puts to good use without creosote build up. My flue temps 16" from the furnace are always around 200-250F on the stove pipe. Internal is around 350F..
4. Easy to use! Set the dial on the computer to L-M-H. Low for mild temps, Medium for cooler weather, and High for bitter cold. I've only used the High setting a few times last yr when temps where only getting to single digits.
5. It's built like a tank and you will more than likely get your use out of it for many yrs! Great craftsmanship!
6. Daryll and Garrett are great to work with. It's great talking to the manufacturer if you have any questions and they always answer the phones or call right back.
7. Made in the USA!!!

Background on my house. I have a 3000sq ft home. Walk out basement. Home is now 10yrs old. Insulated pretty well. I live in SW Missouri. Mild winters here, but can get cold late Dec-early Feb. Furnace is tied into my main duct work. I have propane backup which is set for 60F. In case we are gone etc. It never goes on during the winter months. Only use propane for shoulder weather. I've had my 500gal tank replaced with a baby 120gal tank.

You get what you pay for! For me it was a no brainer. Great quality, customer service, and ease of use is priceless IMO.

 

[Whitespider]

So the goal here is less wood is best. having a thermostat and high efficiency. Oh, and something that will last more then a year.

So why does the HeatMax need replacing after one year... what failed??

I don't have any experience with the furnaces you're lookin' at, but I can tell you this...
The sole purpose for the existence of a wood-fired heating appliance is to make heat... enough heat for what it's heating, where it's heating it (climate)... enough heat through the entire burn cycle (or most of it anyway), regardless of how long or short that may be. If the appliance can't do that, nothing... NOTHING else matters cold owl squat, not even longevity (durability).

If your "goal" (priority??) is less fuel/high efficiency you stand on a very slippery slope indeed. What you've done is move the primary purpose of the appliance way down the the priority list... and that could easily be a huge mistake. Don't let yourself be fooled by the "specs"; the BTU output is typically the "peak" output... you should be thinking about heat loss of your home verses the average per-hour output over the entire burn cycle (during the most extreme weather expected in your area). A long burn cycle, no matter how high the efficiency, means less heat per hour (average)... and it don't matter how you do the math. Sweatin' for two hours, being comfortable for an hour, and shivering for the next six or eight sucks‼ Besides, if you're over-firing, or reloading prematurely to keep up with demand, you've completely thrown efficiency out the window... and over-firing reduces longevity, no matter how durable it's built.

First and foremost, you should narrow your choices to the appliances that will do the job you need it to do (and the ones you're lookin' at may be able to do that, I don't have any way to know... only goin' off the info, and what you state as a "goal" in your post). Then, and only then, should you start comparing conveniences, features, efficiencies, burn times, durability, price, and whatnot... 'cause they all run, at best, a distant second in priority, very distant.
*

 

[spadjen]

So why does the HeatMax need replacing after one year... what failed??

I don't have any experience with the furnaces you're lookin' at, but I can tell you this...
The sole purpose for the existence of a wood-fired heating appliance is to make heat... enough heat for what it's heating, where it's heating it (climate)... enough heat through the entire burn cycle (or most of it anyway), regardless of how long or short that may be. If the appliance can't do that, nothing... NOTHING else matters cold owl squat, not even longevity (durability).

If your "goal" (priority??) is less fuel/high efficiency you stand on a very slippery slope indeed. What you've done is move the primary purpose of the appliance way down the the priority list... and that could easily be a huge mistake. Don't let yourself be fooled by the "specs"; the BTU output is typically the "peak" output... you should be thinking about heat loss of your home verses the average per-hour output over the entire burn cycle (during the most extreme weather expected in your area). A long burn cycle, no matter how high the efficiency, means less heat per hour (average)... and it don't matter how you do the math. Sweatin' for two hours, being comfortable for an hour, and shivering for the next six or eight sucks‼ Besides, if you're over-firing, or reloading prematurely to keep up with demand, you've completely thrown efficiency out the window... and over-firing reduces longevity, no matter how durable it's built.

First and foremost, you should narrow your choices to the appliances that will do the job you need it to do (and the ones you're lookin' at may be able to do that, I don't have any way to know... only goin' off the info, and what you state as a "goal" in your post). Then, and only then, should you start comparing conveniences, features, efficiencies, burn times, durability, price, and whatnot... 'cause they all run, at best, a distant second in priority, very distant.
*

I am not sure where your going with most of this. are you making assumptions on why I am looking for a new furnace. Yes the house has some problems with air infiltration and as I said they are being addressed. I did not get into details that belong on a home improvement network. What we have is a defective furnace that needs to be replaced so looking for recommendations on a replacement. I dont think there is anything wrong with using "less" fuel and looking for high efficiency. If that can be found I will just put a new oild furnace in and be done with it. Please review the details of what I am looking for, what I am looking at, and what I currently have. I would like to hear from owners of the kuuma and hmf100 and cadday as well.

As far as narrowing down my choices of applinces that do the job, that is what I did. all the furnaces have efficiency ratings and secondary burns. The only iffy one I through in was the Jack

we also live in norhtern nh so it can get cold.

 

[Whitespider]

are you making assumptions on why I am looking for a new furnace.

Well, yes, actually I am... based on the limited (very limited) information in your post... I thought I made that clear in my post.
You also stated...
"Unfortunately the furnace needs to be replaced so looking at options. ...and something that will last more then a year."
I don't think asking "why" is out'a line at all. After all, you're asking us about experiences, impressions, recommendations and whatnot... but we're not allowed to ask you?? And, if you're gonna' get pizzy about the responses... why even bother to ask??
That's some high horse you ride...
*

 

[spadjen]

Well, yes, actually I am... based on the limited (very limited) information in your post... I thought I made that clear in my post.
You also stated...
"Unfortunately the furnace needs to be replaced so looking at options. ...and something that will last more then a year."
I don't think asking "why" is out'a line at all. After all, you're asking us about experiences, impressions, recommendations and whatnot... but we're not allowed to ask you?? And, if you're gonna' get pizzy about the responses... why even bother to ask??
That's some high horse you ride...
*

well you can get back that horse and ride right back out if you want. Right off this thread. I did leave that information out, and on purpose. I am not publicly disclosing the details at this point. There is no safety issue at this point or I would make a public statement prior to the facts being made available. However, my request still remains the same, regardless of why the furnace needs to be replaced. I need a new one, what do the other experts recommend.

btw, asking questions and making assumptions are 2 different things. ask all the questions you want. hell, i did not even care if you were making assumptions, just wanted clarification on the information you posted. seems like I crawled in, not rode in.

 

[Whitespider]

Sounds like you ain't lookin' for advice... just vindication.
And keep your damn horse... I don't like ridin' 'em... feedin' 'em... or cleanin' up after 'em.
*

 

[iowa]

So why does the HeatMax need replacing after one year... what failed??

I don't have any experience with the furnaces you're lookin' at, but I can tell you this...
The sole purpose for the existence of a wood-fired heating appliance is to make heat... enough heat for what it's heating, where it's heating it (climate)... enough heat through the entire burn cycle (or most of it anyway), regardless of how long or short that may be. If the appliance can't do that, nothing... NOTHING else matters cold owl squat, not even longevity (durability).

If your "goal" (priority??) is less fuel/high efficiency you stand on a very slippery slope indeed. What you've done is move the primary purpose of the appliance way down the the priority list... and that could easily be a huge mistake. Don't let yourself be fooled by the "specs"; the BTU output is typically the "peak" output... you should be thinking about heat loss of your home verses the average per-hour output over the entire burn cycle (during the most extreme weather expected in your area). A long burn cycle, no matter how high the efficiency, means less heat per hour (average)... and it don't matter how you do the math. Sweatin' for two hours, being comfortable for an hour, and shivering for the next six or eight sucks‼ Besides, if you're over-firing, or reloading prematurely to keep up with demand, you've completely thrown efficiency out the window... and over-firing reduces longevity, no matter how durable it's built.

First and foremost, you should narrow your choices to the appliances that will do the job you need it to do (and the ones you're lookin' at may be able to do that, I don't have any way to know... only goin' off the info, and what you state as a "goal" in your post). Then, and only then, should you start comparing conveniences, features, efficiencies, burn times, durability, price, and whatnot... 'cause they all run, at best, a distant second in priority, very distant.
*

I too don't know where you're going with this. He asked for input on people that own those specific furnaces.

I don't know why his goal of finding a furnace that uses less wood would be a "slippery slope"? Obviously you can buy a car that gets better gas mileage and get the job done. You can do the same with a furnace. Obviously Lammpa Manufacturing has proved that.

As the OP had stated, he has some issues with the house and they are being addressed. I'm sure he knows that in order to have an efficient furnace you need to have a decently efficient house.

 

[Whitespider]

I don't know why his goal of finding a furnace that uses less wood would be a "slippery slope"?

Oh... now I understand...
______________________________________________________________________
I have a F-350 diesel now which pulls my 26 foot travel trailer well through the mountains. I wish it would run longer on a tank of fuel, but not sure if it is the trailer or the truck. Unfortunately the truck needs to be replaced so looking at options... please help me decide.
My "goal" is less fuel, cruise control and a great stereo... and something that will last more than a year. I'm lookin' at a Dodge gasser, Chevy diesel, Toyota 6 cyl, and a Cadillac. Leaning to the Toyota for the efficiency, but that Dodge looks like it's built to last, and the Caddy has a great stereo but a bit pricy, the extra would buy a lot of fuel.

Since I have an issue with my truck, speed is also something to consider. I can get the Cadillac today, but I have to order any of the others.
Also, If I had the money I would by Peterbuilt tractor and a trailer twice as big. Since I am trying to save money, one must consider that the high cost units would take longer to recover from. I don't get my gasoline free, its about 3 bucks a gallon, but a lot cheaper then diesel.

So... what'cha y'all think??

OH‼ And don't ask any questions or make assumptions... just answer the damn question.
************************************************************************************

Give me a friggin' break...
*

 

[iowa]

Oh... now I understand...
______________________________________________________________________
I have a F-350 diesel now which pulls my 26 foot travel trailer well through the mountains. I wish it would run longer on a tank of fuel, but not sure if it is the trailer or the truck. Unfortunately the truck needs to be replaced so looking at options... please help me decide.
My "goal" is less fuel, cruise control and a great stereo... and something that will last more than a year. I'm lookin' at a Dodge gasser, Chevy diesel, Toyota 6 cyl, and a Cadillac. Leaning to the Toyota for the efficiency, but that Dodge looks like it's built to last, and the Caddy has a great stereo but a bit pricy, the extra would buy a lot of fuel.

Since I have an issue with my truck, speed is also something to consider. I can get the Cadillac today, but I have to order any of the others.
Also, If I had the money I would by Peterbuilt tractor and a trailer twice as big. Since I am trying to save money, one must consider that the high cost units would take longer to recover from. I don't get my gasoline free, its about 3 bucks a gallon, but a lot cheaper then diesel.

So... what'cha y'all think??

OH‼ And don't ask any questions or make assumptions... just answer the damn question.
************************************************************************************

Give me a friggin' break...
*

Dude..... Who put sand paper on your toilet seat this morning?

He asked to know about certain furnaces. Not for you to over analyze his situation and make something out of nothing... He obviously bought a furnace. Doesn't work right. Getting a new one.

 

[Whitespider]

Dude... really??
*

 

[spadjen]

g

Dude... really??
*

I thought I told you to leave the thread? I asked a question. If you dont have an answer please dont waste our time. I am looking for advise not a battle from someone behind a keyboard. You made it clear you have nothing to add so now please leave. Sorry if you took offence to anything I said but I dont stand for BS that does not add value.

 

[Whitespider]

Hey, you posted on a public internet board... as much as you may wish it, you flat don't own this thread.
Naa... naa... na... naa... naa ‼

Havin' fun now ‼
*

 

[Whitespider]

I thought I told you to leave the thread?

Next time try askin' real nice like... maybe even use the word "please" or some such.
*

 

[stihl sawing]

WS.. Take a chill pill and go play on another thread.

 

[zogger]

No experience with any of those, but have read here good things about the low end cost englanders, and the higher end blaze kings.

 

[brenndatomu]

Unfortunately the furnace needs to be replaced so looking at options.

Oh, and something that will last more then a year.

So you can't use the Heatmax at all now? There's no repairing it? I not sure what the warranty is on the Drolet, but I'm sure the major components are a lot more than a year, and they are usually pretty good to work with on warranty, what gives? You run the bag off 'er, try and melt 'er down?

Looked at the PSG caddy, the Jack and super jack, the Kuuma Vapor 100 and the Napoleon HMF150.

I read about a lot of happy Caddy owners.
I had a Big Jack, same as a Super Jack only the SJ has a secondary heat exchanger. They are built like a tank, make a ton of heat while using a fair amount of wood. Will creosote the heck outta your chimney if you try to cut the air down too far for the overnight!
The Kuuma is the hands down choice if money was no issue.
I have heard very little on the HMF150, what I did hear was negative.

The jack is built to last and has a better warranty but concerned they have no epa or raw data testing for there efficacy.

Yeah their secondary burn system is...well, better than nothing, but that's about it.

I am being hard sold on the HMF150 but looks to be relatively new and not much information out there.

See above comment on HMF150

Do you have 2 chimneys? If so, a separate wood furnace and fossil fuel furnace will be cheaper and more efficient than a combo unit. If you have 1 chimney you could still do a wood furnace and then get a HE "propain" furnace that can be vented out through a PVC pipe

 

[newyorker]

i did alot of research before i bought the caddy this is my first winter i am very impressed with it built like a tank amazing secondary burns holds a good fire all night and house is right where i set the thermostat in the morning at. the other furnaces i cant comment on except the kuuma looks like a nice rig build in the USA

 

[newyorker]

you know how you go out and buy a new chevy and spent all the money and your just disappointed in performance? well you wont get that feeling from the caddy it has done nothing but impress me just like my ford

 

[Idahonative]

well you can get back that horse and ride right back out if you want. Right off this thread. I did leave that information out, and on purpose. I am not publicly disclosing the details at this point. There is no safety issue at this point or I would make a public statement prior to the facts being made available. However, my request still remains the same, regardless of why the furnace needs to be replaced. I need a new one, what do the other experts recommend.

btw, asking questions and making assumptions are 2 different things. ask all the questions you want. hell, i did not even care if you were making assumptions, just wanted clarification on the information you posted. seems like I crawled in, not rode in.

Spadjen, I say this to you with all the respect in the world because you have done nothing to cause me to lose respect for you. Spend some time on this forum and you will understand what kind of person you are dealing with when it comes to Whitespider. He has no life even though he gets on here and brags about having like 19 kids, 185 grand-kids etc. etc. etc. (some people breed like rabbits) and we as working tax payers are more than likely paying to support his clan. We are more than likely also supporting him so he can get on this forum and make all of us hard working people's lives miserable if you let him. STOP LETTING HIM! You don't have to spend much time on this forum to realize he brings virtually nothing to the table in terms of useful information for us wood burning enthusiast. Everyone PLEASE RESIST engaging this 70 year old, unemployed pizza delivery guy. Interact with people on this forum who actually care and have real world experience to offer you. Don't waste your time with people who's sole purpose in life is to be a pita to anyone naive enough to engage him. Thanks.