Recomended Pitch for Milling Chain

[Zack_M]

This weekend I was working on some 32-34"wide Black Gum that fell a few weeks back though I think it had bee. Standing dead for quite some time.
I have an MS880 running .404 on a 36" bar. Right now I'm looking at ordering a longer bar to use on a large American Elm that fell a couple years ago and I'd like some feedback on chain pitch.
Before I got my Stihl. I was milling with an old 80cc McCulloch running 3/8 full comp set at 90 degrees and found I needed to use alot of wedges to keep the chain from binding in the cut and cut relatively slow to let the chain remove dust.
On the Stihl I'm running .404 Granbury Ripping chain and run into very for issues with dust clearing. One day I was almost done and my milling chain was dull so I threw on a .404 full comp full chisel chain to finish out the day. I quickly found I really don't care for the extra vibration, I thought my fillings were going to out, and that the chain didn't clear the cut quite as well though it still was no where near as bad as the 3/8 was. I've also noticed that .404 chain doesn't seem to get pinched as easily as the 3/8 did.
As I get into wider logs, like the 48" Elm mentioned above, am I going to run into problems pulling .404 chain?

 

[BobL]

I have never heard of the dust clearing issues you describe.
Meanwhile some questions
Are you confusing dust clearing with a blunt chain?
How often do you sharpen?
How often do you attend to the rakers
What are you rakers set at?
How often do you dress and flip the bar?
How much groove depth did you have left on the Mac bar?
Are you running an Aux oiler?

 

[Zack_M]

The Mac, which I don't use anymore (manual oiler and warm restarts got really old) but the bar was brand new when I put it on and was only a 24" so I didn't have an Aux oiler.
I had the chain set to 90 but was still learning to sharpen so the hook angle was inconsistent. As for rakers all my milling chains are set to .030 and I check them each time I sharpen the chain. I run a file over the cutters to clean up the edge when notice the cutting speed (not chain speed) begin to drop. I think of sharpening as times I use a filing jig and properly set all the cutters to the same length, check for damaged cutters, straps, ect. I don't think I've ever ran a chain for more than 3-4 hours between sharpenings.
I'm made it a habit to pull the bar off, clean the rails, remove any burrs and clean/inspect the powerhead at the end of each day.
I wish I could say I was doing the smart thing on my MS880 and was running an Aux oiler but I'm not at the moment, it's on order just waiting on delivery.
Until recently I rarely had more than 20"-22" of the bar in the cut at a time so it didn't seem really critical. I kick myself for not ordering it sooner because this weekend I was milling a 32" wide, half dried Black Gum log and noticed both the bar and saw were getting pretty hot (90+ ambient Temps and cutting in direct sunlight probably weren't helping). I'm hoping the Aux oiler helps keep it a bit cooler.

 

[BobL]

The Mac, which I don't use anymore (manual oiler and warm restarts got really old) but the bar was brand new when I put it on and was only a 24" so I didn't have an Aux oiler.
I had the chain set to 90 .

I think you might mean 0º for a top plate filing angle (TPFA) ?

If this is the case then this could be contributing to you problem.
Not even a machine can file accurately enough to generate a true 0º TPFA.
This means that some of your cutters will have a slightly negative TPFA which may contribute to binding a chain.
Some positive TPFA is always needed so the TPFA never goes negative.
It doesn't matter what is used provided it is positive 5 or 10 or 15º

but was still learning to sharpen so the hook angle was inconsistent. As for rakers all my milling chains are set to .030 and I check them each time I sharpen the chain. I run a file over the cutters to clean up the edge when notice the cutting speed (not chain speed) begin to drop. I think of sharpening as times I use a filing jig and properly set all the cutters to the same length, check for damaged cutters, straps, ect. I don't think I've ever ran a chain for more than 3-4 hours between sharpenings.

WHOAAAA - that's way too long. No wonder you have problems.
In hardwood I touch up the cutters after every tank of mix - just 2 3 swipes. In softwoods which I don't cut often I would do it after every second tank.
Rakers get a couple of swipes every 3-4 touch ups.
This way the chains never go blunt and are easily maintained without a major sharpen.

You will get much better older/used chain performance is you file the rakers in a progressive manner rather than to a fixed depth of 0,030"
A basic raker depth is 1/10th of the gullet depth - so when gullets are 0.5" wide the rakes should be 0,050"
This is called "progressive chain sharpening" and one benefit is that when it is used there is no need to get the cutters all the same length.
For more info on this method have a look at my posts in this sticky in the chainsaw sharpening forum.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/forums/chain-sharpening.74/

The combination of all three things described above will cure your "dust" and "binding" problems.

 

[Zack_M]

Yes. I have been using 0 Degrees as the top plate filing angle. I was unaware a negative cutting angle could contribute to binding, I'll try setting them to 10 and see how that works.

when I read your reaction I thought about it an can totally understand your reaction. Now that I think back over my cutting this weekend I realize the duration per cut progressively increased during the third cut. Lesson learned take the time to touch-up more regularly.

Progressive filing of rakers makes sense, I'm going to get one on order.

 

[Zack_M]

Last weekend I refilled one of my chains to 10 degrees and was amazed how much better the saw went through.
I also noted my rakers were, and still are, set to low which I assume was contributed to the issue.
I tried finding a Carlton File-O-Plate, to try progressive raker filing, for .404 chain and have not been able to find anyone who still has any of them stocked.
Any chance someone has one they would be willing to part with or put on a flatbed scanner, with a ruler along side, so I could make myself one?

 

[BobL]

Good to hear there have been some improvements.

While a Carlton FOP is better than a standard 0.025" raker gauge, it will only partially generate a progressive raker setting. After using it try 2-3 more swipes of the rakers and see how you go. If it still cuts without grabbing try 2-3 more swipes and continue until the chain starts to grab. Then take the cutters back a few swipes. This is quite a time consuming way to set the rakers but it will tell you how far you have to swipe the rakers after using the FOP.