Reed Valves, why did they stop using them?

[woodlandcammies]

Ok gents,
Ive got a question that is probably dumb, might have been answered before.
Reed Valves... Why did companies stop using them? Ive seen some older saws (Macs/Old Poulans etc) used them, my boat motors still use them (Carbon fiber reeds for the win!!!!!) but it seems like no one uses them on small engines anymore.. Is there a reason why?

 

[cedarhollow]

outboards don't turn nearly as fast as chainsaws. also EPA has driven too many changes to count

 

[woodlandcammies]

Makes sense, didnt think there would be much of a difference emissions wise from the EPA's view point between reed and direct opening vacuum operation, but gubment, you never can tell.

 

[cedarhollow]

I'm not an engineer or expert but had an outboard shop 15 years ago and everything today has become so specialized it's not even funny. I do know that the stihl km130 i have you add oil to gas and it has real engine valves is the best handheld pull start device I have ever seen or touched. Chainsaw designs keep changing but they are not necessarily getting better as far as actual users have reported. The largest corporations and richest people are now having the laws written to saw what they want to protect their profit and greed not for the best of the people.
Our lives in the US have been manipulated as much by laws as Govt guidelines and regulations.
One of my favorite outboard was the 4 and 6 cyl OMC crossflow. 95-175 HP, it was the same basic design with interchangeable basic part parts in the powerhead from 1979-1992 at least and I could rebuild them to last 2x to 3x what a stock factory motor would last on a commercial boat It was killed by OMC because of proposed EPA guidlines. motor designs changed completely every couple years after that. Just saying.
I guess I have gotten way off track as why no reeds in today's chainsaws.Just my $0.02

 

[woodlandcammies]

I know what you mean about the old OMC Crossflow, Ive got a 150 Evinrude on the back of the boat from 1983 thats a crossflow, thing still runs like a champ......

 

[cedarhollow]

That engine will last a long time if set up with proper pitch prop to get optimal WOT rpms and with fresh fuel, quality oil and keeping carbs clean. They idle great, have lots of torque and will run wide open all day long. I could make them last 4000-5000 hours when a stock one maybe 1500 hours on commercial boat.

 

[woodlandcammies]

They are kind of like the old Merc "Tower of power" series engines... I see more new engines on boats toasted in my neck of the woods, yet seems like every tom **** and harry has a jon boat or old bass buggy with the old crossflow rudes or Merc TP engines that still keep running.. The old mercs just always looked funky on the back end of them lol.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I can only guess.... Weight, less moving parts, (less maintenance, less cost in parts to build and assembly labor), emissions.

2 strokes are a dying breed because of the "pollution" lot of areas won't allow 2 stroke snowmobiles or boat motors anymore.
I don't really notice much fumes with decent 50:1 oil, but I've had saws come in with the "eh, 5 glugs of oil" ratio that could about block out the sun with a smoke cloud!
Had one guy last year insist the little bottles of 2 stroke were perfect. They were for making 1 gal mix, but he was pouring it right in the saw and just topping it off with gas!

 

[merc_man]

They are kind of like the old Merc "Tower of power" series engines... I see more new engines on boats toasted in my neck of the woods, yet seems like every tom **** and harry has a jon boat or old bass buggy with the old crossflow rudes or Merc TP engines that still keep running.. The old mercs just always looked funky on the back end of them lol.

I like the old tower of power mercs. Everytime i see one i just think to myself. I hope my merc lasts as long as they do.
Sorry that was off topic.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk

 

[blsnelling]

Size constraints is the first thing that comes to mind.

 

[Sepia]

Forget reed valves - I want a rotary valve, variable timing quad port saw. Who has an nc mill and a couple big blocks of Magnesium?

 

[Big_Wood]

I like the old tower of power mercs. Everytime i see one i just think to myself. I hope my merc lasts as long as they do.
Sorry that was off topic.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk

i didn't mind them,...... if they had power trim lol. the real old ones were a bear to get the leg up out of the water, especially if some salt water seizing started setting into the mounting bracket. the black max were way less reliable but i'll take one anyday!!! any outboard with a distributor should be thrown in the scrap lol getting tired of fullfilling my obligation to help those in need on the water! to many people relying on old junk!! it's one thing for me to run something old cause i know what it has left in it but to many stupid people buy an old scrapper that should really be used for parts and put the thing on their boat like they are gonna run it for 5 years. then the kicker? you find them way way way way off shore with a dead engine and no life jackets? people don't take salt water serious enough until they're stranded or in many cases half dead.

 

[7sleeper]

The Dolmar 6100 uses a type of reed!

7

 

[fwgsaw]

Forget reed valves - I want a rotary valve, variable timing quad port saw. Who has an nc mill and a couple big blocks of Magnesium?

McCulloch 73 120cc of rotary power

 

[Sepia]

McCulloch 73 120cc of rotary power

Had to read up on that one. Found a short write-up by Mike Acres that was interesting.

 

[fwgsaw]

Had to read up on that one. Found a short write-up by Mike Acres that was interesting.

If you have a 3-25 it's rotary also

 

[Sepia]

Well now you have piqued my interest. If I ever get these other saw projects behind me, maybe I will have to tear into the 3-25 to see what goes on in there.

 

[fwgsaw]

Well now you have piqued my interest. If I ever get these other saw projects behind me, maybe I will have to tear into the 3-25 to see what goes on in there.

It's a marvel of engineering in one of those saws.

 

[woodlandcammies]

Ive seen a company making rotary valved V-8s... pushing some serious horsepower. Didnt know someone got smart and were making saws with rotary valves.. interesting....

 

[woodlandcammies]

i didn't mind them,...... if they had power trim lol. the real old ones were a bear to get the leg up out of the water, especially if some salt water seizing started setting into the mounting bracket. the black max were way less reliable but i'll take one anyday!!! any outboard with a distributor should be thrown in the scrap lol getting tired of fullfilling my obligation to help those in need on the water! to many people relying on old junk!! it's one thing for me to run something old cause i know what it has left in it but to many stupid people buy an old scrapper that should really be used for parts and put the thing on their boat like they are gonna run it for 5 years. then the kicker? you find them way way way way off shore with a dead engine and no life jackets? people don't take salt water serious enough until they're stranded or in many cases half dead.

I will admit Ive seen that a couple times on the lake. I used to fish Santee Cooper in Carolina on a regular basis.. You would see people running some crapped out equipment that obviously had never had basic maintanance done on it.. We had a guy up at Clarks Hill a couple months ago when me and a buddy were fishing a tournament, he barely made it back to the ramp. He didnt know he had a 3.5" hole in the transom next to his engine mounts, he made it on his trailer (barely... motor was struggling to move it, back end was almost submerged) had to hook our truck to his truck to get it up the ramp.. Motor was junk to begin with, boat was junk. If you're gonna run something old, do yourself a favor and at least refurbish it prior to putting your life and money on the line.