Removal Advice and pricing

[Dr. Cornwallis]

A little about me first: I'm a career firefighter who currently owns and operates a medium sized lawn care business on the side. I cater to higher end homes in the suburbs and rural areas. A few months ago I decided to add tree care and removal to my lawn business as I've had a lot of customers as well as just random people ask me if I did it. I've added the necessary insurance to my plan and obtained a business license in my county. Yesterday, while mowing one of my best clients yards I noticed an oak that had been struggling last year appears to have thrown in the towel. I'm planning to shoot them an e mail with a quote to remove it, however, I had some questions first.

I've taken down several trees with my father, however, none have ever had any penalty for failure as far as adjacent structures or hazards. Also, in the past I've never climbed, we have always used a JLG boom lift. I'm new to climbing and have been practicing SRT around my property with equipment borrowed from a friend at work.

For the real pros, my question is: would you climb this tree or utilize a lift?

As an amateur, my plan is to use a two man crew, me in the loft with a saw and a ground man to lower stuff. I would use the boom lift to get up there, set rigging to a higher branch and then take the branches apart in sections from the lift until it's down to the stump at which point I'll fell it in sections.

I haven't measured yet but the tree is approx 20" DBH. It's freshly dead/dying so it shouldn't be rotten. I plan to keep as much of the stump as I can for milling as it's a good long/straight stump, I think I may be able to get two ten foot sections out of it. I'll keep what I can for firewood too.

I was planning on pricing the job at $1550 without stump grinding.

$350 for lift rental
$200 labor for a ground guy for the day.
$1000 for my profit/business expenses.

With my lawn business I charge $50 an hour, and I figure (based on past experience on my own property) I can have this thing on the ground and cleaned up in well under a day (and I'm slow). So I should be looking at $100/hr. There is no dump fee as I just have to stack it by the street and the homeowner can schedule the county to come pick it up.

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[greengreer]

So you've never done this and you want to charge $200 an hr without cleanup? Apparently I'm in the wrong market.

 

[Dr. Cornwallis]

So you've never done this and you want to charge $200 an hr without cleanup? Apparently I'm in the wrong market.

The county here will pick up tree trimmings and stumps up to a certain diameter, you just have to stack them by the street for pickup. So I would be moving them from where they were cut and then stacking them at the street.

If this price is unfair, then I would like your professional opinion on the matter and let me know what you think a fair price is. I'm not looking to get rich off of tree removal, however, I don't want to cheat the industry either by being the low bidder. The lawn business has pretty much been at rock bottom for the last twenty years because of everyone trying to win a job with the lowest bid. I want to be able to submit a fair bid.

Me, I'm extremely happy with walking away with $50 an hour in my pocket as that's what I make cutting grass, however, I don't want to come in too low and cheat the industry.





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[greengreer]

Glad you are not low balling, but...
Companies that charge $100 a man hr here are the ones who have lots of expensive equipment (chipper, chip truck, bucket, loader etc) several employees who are covered by workers comp, payroll taxes, so on so forth... you get the idea. Lot's and lots of overhead and time that's not billable.
Guys with gear, saws and experience maybe charge $50-60 a man hr. Guy without experience can charge the same total but its gonna take twice as long so realistically he is making $25-30 per man hr.
For two guys thats a half day job from looking at the pic, everything gone minus the stump. About $500-$600. Chipper, chiptruck, dump, trailer, dingo. $75/man hr

The tree is easily climbable, but if you had to rent a lift for half a day you might be able to add that on.

 

[Tenderfoot]

So you've never done this and you want to charge $200 an hr without cleanup? Apparently I'm in the wrong market.

$200/hr for a two man crew is about the going rate in my area, at least the ones with equipment.

 

[Dr. Cornwallis]

Glad you are not low balling, but...
Companies that charge $100 a man hr here are the ones who have lots of expensive equipment (chipper, chip truck, bucket, loader etc) several employees who are covered by workers comp, payroll taxes, so on so forth... you get the idea. Lot's and lots of overhead and time that's not billable.
Guys with gear, saws and experience maybe charge $50-60 a man hr. Guy without experience can charge the same total but its gonna take twice as long so realistically he is making $25-30 per man hr.
For two guys thats a half day job from looking at the pic, everything gone minus the stump. About $500-$600. Chipper, chiptruck, dump, trailer, dingo. $75/man hr

The tree is easily climbable, but if you had to rent a lift for half a day you might be able to add that on.

Thank you, and honestly, in my opinion, this makes sense. I understand that pricing will vary based on demographics but I feel like unless I'm missing something, $50 a man hour is fair for running a trailer, basic climbing equipment and some chain saws.


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[pro94lt]

What if all the other guys stacked their trees by the road?

 

[jefflovstrom]

Good luck,
Jeff

 

[Zale]

You live in a great county that would take that entire tree. That will be one large brush pile. Price seems fair enough.

 

[Oldmaple]

One of our local municipalities picks up tree debris if it is the right size and done by the homeowner, not a contractor. How would they know? Neighbors like the service and turn in people that don't follow the rules. I would imagine if all the contractors would stack the brush by the curb the county would be overwhelmed and quit doing it.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Just did a tree like it this week by myself. It certainly took more than a day and the clean up is not done. The owner said he was keeping an eye on me until he saw it down. It was mostly done with a sling shot and a rope saw, so what. If you want to do tree work then do tree work and forget the lawn business. It takes practice and creating a backlog of experience to have a safe program. My recent customer found out that that I can weld pretty well. Should I include welding in my phone book yellow page listing? I live breathe cutting wood and weld when some thing needs welding, but not for customers. A lift has never helped me much, but then it looks cheap enough to rent. Using a ladder to access the upper part of the tree is faster than climbing it many times. What difference does it make what the price is it? If you think with out any experience you can start making money for the first effort then we need to elect you for president. Would you still do your tree job if you were told that you would loose $2,500. It should not matter if you make a penny or loose a few thousand. Once you have done a few and you decide that is what you like then go for it. After buying your rigging and other speciality stuff then you will likely break even after several jobs. The branch in the center of your tree with a crotch would work well to lower all your branches with. However some of the branches might have to be cut in half so that not all the weight will be held by your center branch. Yes if you miscalculate the weight there will be a penalty. Thanks

 

[greengreer]

^^ holy ****!

 

[Stgcutter]

If I could do trees like that for that price I'd be driving a whole lot nicer vehicle then I am now

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[Dr. Cornwallis]

Just did a tree like it this week by myself. It certainly took more than a day and the clean up is not done. The owner said he was keeping an eye on me until he saw it down. It was mostly done with a sling shot and a rope saw, so what. If you want to do tree work then do tree work and forget the lawn business. It takes practice and creating a backlog of experience to have a safe program. My recent customer found out that that I can weld pretty well. Should I include welding in my phone book yellow page listing? I live breathe cutting wood and weld when some thing needs welding, but not for customers. A lift has never helped me much, but then it looks cheap enough to rent. Using a ladder to access the upper part of the tree is faster than climbing it many times. What difference does it make what the price is it? If you think with out any experience you can start making money for the first effort then we need to elect you for president. Would you still do your tree job if you were told that you would loose $2,500. It should not matter if you make a penny or loose a few thousand. Once you have done a few and you decide that is what you like then go for it. After buying your rigging and other speciality stuff then you will likely break even after several jobs. The branch in the center of your tree with a crotch would work well to lower all your branches with. However some of the branches might have to be cut in half so that not all the weight will be held by your center branch. Yes if you miscalculate the weight there will be a penalty. Thanks

I thought I made it quite clear that I wasn't planning on getting rich off the tree business, much less off my "first effort." I'm also not an armature when it comes to running a business. I started my lawn care business in a state where everyone and his brother does lawn care and does it for nothing. I did a few things to make me stand out from the competition and was able to go from $40,000 of nice looking equipment and no clients to an extremely efficient, low waste, highly profitable operation in two years. I formed the LLC and bought all the equipment in September of 2013. I had one client. I went door to door handing out business cards and in a year I had 30 highly profitable clients, in two years I was debt free.

I bought the best commercial equipment money could buy (new too) from the get go. Obviously it didn't take me one yard or even one year to make back my investment. I was fortunate and I had some help with the financial planning side of the business as well as a great first two years and I broke even in just over two years.

I also apologize if not being a dedicated tree guy is offensive to you. I have no idea why I would give up cutting grass unless cutting trees proves to be that much more profitable and I'm losing money by cutting grass. I hope to one day stop cutting grass in favor of dedicated tree work but, in the mean time why give up money? I'm also a professional Firefighter, should I give up that too if I want to be successful in the tree business?

I actually know a local ISA certified tree guy who wants to get into the lawn business. Should I have told him that he's a tree guy and to just cut trees because he doesn't know anything about grass? I actually gave him a lot of advice on the industry and pricing, equipment, techniques etc... multiple sources of income is a good thing.

I'm also not a stranger to trimming trees or removing them. I have experience, but it was learned on a ranch and it wasn't business, it was another day around the house. I'm looking for some insight on methods and tips to maximize profitability and safety. I've learned over the years with many things that just because you've been doing something the way your dad taught you for ten years and it hasn't killed you yet doesn't necessarily mean it's the best or even the correct way.

I'm not sure why you think this tree would take more than a day, I would be shocked if it took more than that. I've taken down bigger trees (granted, with no surrounding hazards) in under 5 hours with help from my old man, and I don't consider us fast. By dinner the entire thing was either in a burn pile or stacked for firewood. This tree is not particularly large, does not have that many huge branches, as you pointed out some will have to be taken down in sections but not all, has easy access and can be felled to one side with zero hazards. I would say that with a helper on the ground, I will have ten hours invested if I end up taking the debris to the dump.


Something I've noticed, though, both in person and here is that pricing can be all over the place. I guess in the tree business it's a bit like the lawn business, it boils down to what prices your market will support and how well you sell your self.

A few years ago a client had asked me about removing a decent sized oak tree in his back yard, I didn't have interest in it at the time but told him to let me know what it ended up costing him. He got quotes ranging from a low of $900 from some rapy looking dudes in an old van to over $5,000 from a medium sized licensed and insured tree service ran by a guy that didn't look like he would rape and murder your family.

He went with the expensive guy.

Now on the flip side, my grandfather lived on a few acres on the Suwannee river and had a bunch of large oaks removed for what boiled down to about $100 a tree. In Alachua county Florida, though, everyone has a truck, tractor, chainsaw, and alcohol problem, so, pretty much anyone will work for beer money or barter.





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[Bwoell14]

I thought I made it quite clear that I wasn't planning on getting rich off the tree business, much less off my "first effort." I'm also not an armature when it comes to running a business. I started my lawn care business in a state where everyone and his brother does lawn care and does it for nothing. I did a few things to make me stand out from the competition and was able to go from $40,000 of nice looking equipment and no clients to an extremely efficient, low waste, highly profitable operation in two years. I formed the LLC and bought all the equipment in September of 2013. I had one client. I went door to door handing out business cards and in a year I had 30 highly profitable clients, in two years I was debt free.

I bought the best commercial equipment money could buy (new too) from the get go. Obviously it didn't take me one yard or even one year to make back my investment. I was fortunate and I had some help with the financial planning side of the business as well as a great first two years and I broke even in just over two years.

I also apologize if not being a dedicated tree guy is offensive to you. I have no idea why I would give up cutting grass unless cutting trees proves to be that much more profitable and I'm losing money by cutting grass. I hope to one day stop cutting grass in favor of dedicated tree work but, in the mean time why give up money? I'm also a professional Firefighter, should I give up that too if I want to be successful in the tree business?

I actually know a local ISA certified tree guy who wants to get into the lawn business. Should I have told him that he's a tree guy and to just cut trees because he doesn't know anything about grass? I actually gave him a lot of advice on the industry and pricing, equipment, techniques etc... multiple sources of income is a good thing.

I'm also not a stranger to trimming trees or removing them. I have experience, but it was learned on a ranch and it wasn't business, it was another day around the house. I'm looking for some insight on methods and tips to maximize profitability and safety. I've learned over the years with many things that just because you've been doing something the way your dad taught you for ten years and it hasn't killed you yet doesn't necessarily mean it's the best or even the correct way.

I'm not sure why you think this tree would take more than a day, I would be shocked if it took more than that. I've taken down bigger trees (granted, with no surrounding hazards) in under 5 hours with help from my old man, and I don't consider us fast. By dinner the entire thing was either in a burn pile or stacked for firewood. This tree is not particularly large, does not have that many huge branches, as you pointed out some will have to be taken down in sections but not all, has easy access and can be felled to one side with zero hazards. I would say that with a helper on the ground, I will have ten hours invested if I end up taking the debris to the dump.


Something I've noticed, though, both in person and here is that pricing can be all over the place. I guess in the tree business it's a bit like the lawn business, it boils down to what prices your market will support and how well you sell your self.

A few years ago a client had asked me about removing a decent sized oak tree in his back yard, I didn't have interest in it at the time but told him to let me know what it ended up costing him. He got quotes ranging from a low of $900 from some rapy looking dudes in an old van to over $5,000 from a medium sized licensed and insured tree service ran by a guy that didn't look like he would rape and murder your family.

He went with the expensive guy.

Now on the flip side, my grandfather lived on a few acres on the Suwannee river and had a bunch of large oaks removed for what boiled down to about $100 a tree. In Alachua county Florida, though, everyone has a truck, tractor, chainsaw, and alcohol problem, so, pretty much anyone will work for beer money or barter.





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Good for you, buddy. I'm a LEO in FL and I do tree work on the side too. I'm far from an expert but I don't mind working my ass off and I like cash in my pocket. Plus, it beats getting shot at.


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[Jakers]

In my area your price would get the whole tree down, cleaned up, wood hauled, stump ground, cleaned, and filled with dirt. Might even be a bit high still even with all that. It doesn't matter what equipment you use, the tree costs the same no matter what. Your equipment choice is how you save time so you can get more done in a day.

 

[Dr. Cornwallis]

Good for you, buddy. I'm a LEO in FL and I do tree work on the side too. I'm far from an expert but I don't mind working my ass off and I like cash in my pocket. Plus, it beats getting shot at.


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Thanks bud! Stay safe out there man. People still seem to like us for the most part. I like working on the side instead of overtime as I can typically make more money and it keeps me from getting burnt out at work.

 

[no tree to big]

Here is what I see, not knowing entire layout of the property for equipment access. Our co would come in be in and out in 2 hrs tops everything hauled 1000 bucks then prob 250 to grind stump. We are in an expensive market.
I as a side job would come with 2 or 3 guys. Climb it chip the brush try to sell them on keeping the logs for firewood weather they use it or put an ad on Craigslist... be in and out in 2 or 3 hours with no equipment besides my old chipper n truck and a couple ropes. I'd try to get 700 leaving logs

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[Dr. Cornwallis]

Here is what I see, not knowing entire layout of the property for equipment access. Our co would come in be in and out in 2 hrs tops everything hauled 1000 bucks then prob 250 to grind stump. We are in an expensive market.
I as a side job would come with 2 or 3 guys. Climb it chip the brush try to sell them on keeping the logs for firewood weather they use it or put an ad on Craigslist... be in and out in 2 or 3 hours with no equipment besides my old chipper n truck and a couple ropes. I'd try to get 700 leaving logs

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Thanks man. Equipment access couldn't be much better. Lott size is a little over one acre, no fence and on the north side of the tree (to the left) there is nothing but a dried up retention pond, so the tree could be easily felled to the north with no hazards.

 

[ropensaddle]

A little about me first: I'm a career firefighter who currently owns and operates a medium sized lawn care business on the side. I cater to higher end homes in the suburbs and rural areas. A few months ago I decided to add tree care and removal to my lawn business as I've had a lot of customers as well as just random people ask me if I did it. I've added the necessary insurance to my plan and obtained a business license in my county. Yesterday, while mowing one of my best clients yards I noticed an oak that had been struggling last year appears to have thrown in the towel. I'm planning to shoot them an e mail with a quote to remove it, however, I had some questions first.

I've taken down several trees with my father, however, none have ever had any penalty for failure as far as adjacent structures or hazards. Also, in the past I've never climbed, we have always used a JLG boom lift. I'm new to climbing and have been practicing SRT around my property with equipment borrowed from a friend at work.

For the real pros, my question is: would you climb this tree or utilize a lift?

As an amateur, my plan is to use a two man crew, me in the loft with a saw and a ground man to lower stuff. I would use the boom lift to get up there, set rigging to a higher branch and then take the branches apart in sections from the lift until it's down to the stump at which point I'll fell it in sections.

I haven't measured yet but the tree is approx 20" DBH. It's freshly dead/dying so it shouldn't be rotten. I plan to keep as much of the stump as I can for milling as it's a good long/straight stump, I think I may be able to get two ten foot sections out of it. I'll keep what I can for firewood too.

I was planning on pricing the job at $1550 without stump grinding.

$350 for lift rental
$200 labor for a ground guy for the day.
$1000 for my profit/business expenses.

With my lawn business I charge $50 an hour, and I figure (based on past experience on my own property) I can have this thing on the ground and cleaned up in well under a day (and I'm slow). So I should be looking at $100/hr. There is no dump fee as I just have to stack it by the street and the homeowner can schedule the county to come pick it up.

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That tree is not even tall its brushy a bit though, here my charge would be 600 or 700 stump ground and take me 5 to 7 hours with stump. I would climb it set bull rope at the point it starts branching then winch and drop into the field. 4 to 6 hours it would be chipped and loaded. Then the stump would take 15 mins plus driving easy peasy.