Replacing my beloved Quadrafire with a new Blaze King Princess insert

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I called my nearest BK dealer. Those stoves are nearly twice what I paid for the Summit.
I was told the cat will likely need replaced in 6 years and the price was $600 for a new one.

Here is a pic of my PE Summit after a 12 1/2 hour burn time.
It might not look like it, but there are lots of coals.

Method of operation; 7 pm loaded stove with Honey Locust onto bed of existing coals, open damper to 600 Deg F then shut down, picture taken at 7:30am the next morning.

I think we are going to keep on using the PE Summit.

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Ok was curious so I called where I got my stove and a new cat for a blaze king ultra stove is $299 bucks. Not sure why your dealer would be so much? Oh and yes BK's are expensive. As long as you are happy with your stove, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I would be temped to keep it as long as it was doing what you needed it to do, and save the money. Although if you do get a chance to check out a working bK I would suggest you do as it is neat to see even if you don't plan on buying one. Of course there is a chance you may want to buy one after seeing one work, So it is not without risk! LOL
 
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The PE summit is a great stove. So is my stone stove. They both cost about the same as a BK if you live in the west.

I've spoken with the VP of blazeking which is made here in WA. There is a river, the mississippi, in the middle of our country. East of that river all BKs are distributed by a particular company that adds an insane markup that the retail dealers must pass on. The contract between BK and that rotten distributor is set to expire in the next year and the pricing issue will be "resolved" somehow. There are many folks that have traveled west to save thousands of dollars on a BK stove.

I'm hoping that all BKs are cheaper instead of all BK stoves costing more to match the east coast prices.
 
We do have friends that have a BK King insert. I haven't been around much when they are using it, but they do say it's a great stove.

I would like to stay with a high output stove and the BK King is it. I just hate to change the flue size to 8" to make it work.

If the prices would drop on the King, It would get me interested again.
 
"There is no, repeat- NO, magic or extra special engineering involved."

I'm sorry you are so unable to see past your nose. The BK stoves have some special engineering that NO other stoves have. They have a thermostatic air control combined with a cat combined with a huge firebox to allow 40 hour burn times on the King model. Yes, 40 hours of heat. Low heat for sure but you put your hootus in that low heat fire and you will be cooked.

Does your homemade stove have a non-electric thermostat? IT DO A cat? IT DO A heat output range from under 10k btu to 90k btu? CLOSE,BUTT NO CIGAR I didn't think so but I still expect you to be a hater.

Good times. I don't even own a BK but I can be educated. THEN WHY OPEN THE MOUTH ?

In 1989 Vermont Castings engineered, cast, sold one of the first catalytic combustor wood stoves WITH a bimetallic thermostatic controlled primary air control, and a thermostatic bimetallic secondary air (automatic). The Defiant Encore (the one burning here now new in 2001 which the home was built around), and a larger version, Defiant, are in thousands of homes. The 1989 design cat stoves are still sold.

Golf Apple Libra boys. Ain't new. Education. Experience. Humbleness.

What's with all this ad hominem stuff ? And lay off the nose....I'm going for a nightcap.

Whiskey Tango Golf: what the H is a "hootus" ? Educate us.
 
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I called my nearest BK dealer. Those stoves are nearly twice what I paid for the Summit.
I was told the cat will likely need replaced in 6 years and the price was $600 for a new one.

Here is a pic of my PE Summit after a 12 1/2 hour burn time.
It might not look like it, but there are lots of coals.

Method of operation; 7 pm loaded stove with Honey Locust onto bed of existing coals, open damper to 600 Deg F then shut down, picture taken at 7:30am the next morning.

I think we are going to keep on using the PE Summit.

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I filled my stove with cottonwood Last night at 12:20 AM when I got home from work. I burned it on high for a while (maybe half hour to 45 min) then turned it down to med low (2 on the themostat) and went to sleep. I took a picture of what was left of the cottonwood at 2:37 PM before I left for work.
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I never added any before I went to work and got home tonight at 12:20 AM and here is a picture of the coals that were left still. I probably could have filled a gallon bucket or so with the coals that were left (some you couldn't see because I didn't bother digging them out of the ashes).
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So there is a 24 hour burn time with cottonwood at around 12-14 percent moisture according to my cheap harbor freight meter. The stove was not hot enough to be in the active zone for the cat but was still hot. The stove was also not on low and some of the wood got burned a little faster due to being on high. I would say this would be a normal real world burn in the winter. Now remember cottonwood has a BTU rating of 12.6 million BTUs, 2,040lbs per cord, and honey locust has a rating of 23.7 million BTU's, and 3,825lbs per cord.
 
Update on Blaze King burn time

Just a little update on the new BK Princess Insert, I will cut and paste my post from the ********** forum. I have no reason to lie or exaggerate, I just wanted to give as much accurate information as possible for the rest of the AS forum.

"I am officially impressed now, this morning at 6:30am I loaded up the stove and went to work an hour later, I set the stove one dot before the low setting. I came home at 7:00pm , at 7:30 I went to the stove to open the door to put more wood hoping there would be enough ambers. Well, I was pleasantly surprised and shocked to see MANY large pieces of charred wood left, the stove was still in the “active” zone! It is 9:40pm now and the stove is still putting out some good heat. WOW, very impressed and pleased. "

My wife is really impressed with this stove as well, especially for the reason that she does not have to load it when she gets home at 4pm now :). She can wait until I come home, actually, I have been waiting till ~ 8/9pm to load it up. We figured we would only need to load the stove twice a day were with the quadrafire we had to load it 3 times, 4 times during the weekends. And another thing, this stove puts out more heat than the QuadraFire did.
 
Great!! :rock:I am very happy you like the new stove and that the boss of the house does too:hmm3grin2orange:. Glad to hear I was not totally full of b.s. LOL. :msp_w00t:I kept wanting to pm you to find out what was up, but life kept getting in the way. Enjoy the new stove, read the manual some good info on loading/operating stove. Load with wood and enjoy!:cheers:

P.S. Be sure to keep us posted
 
Great!! :rock:I am very happy you like the new stove and that the boss of the house does too:hmm3grin2orange:. Glad to hear I was not totally full of b.s. LOL. :msp_w00t:I kept wanting to pm you to find out what was up, but life kept getting in the way. Enjoy the new stove, read the manual some good info on loading/operating stove. Load with wood and enjoy!:cheers:

P.S. Be sure to keep us posted



Like you, I was too busy with life getting in the way... We are VERY happy with this stove, worth every penny both my wife and I agree (at last we agree on something I like... just kidding, not that bad, she is actually pretty cool and open to my ideas, sometimes that is...). Thank you for sharing this information with us :rock:





Does that mean you'll be sending me your old Quadrafire?

Scott

Sorry, that sucker was gone on craigslist within two days... $1,100, a fair price I believe.
 
Like you, I was too busy with life getting in the way... We are VERY happy with this stove, worth every penny both my wife and I agree (at last we agree on something I like... just kidding, not that bad, she is actually pretty cool and open to my ideas, sometimes that is...). Thank you for sharing this information with us :rock:







Sorry, that sucker was gone on craigslist within two days... $1,100, a fair price I believe.

That was a fair price.

Scott
 
Unfortunately, when heat is required, you can forget about long burn times, period. I can see the advantage of low heat/long burn times but when it's down right cold, you need to produce BTU's.
Before I purchased my non-cat Equinox, I did some research on the cat products. The thing I did not like was the lower heat output and the cool flue temps realized during long burn times. One fellow on ********** got literally chased of by the "know-all" ignorant moderators when he posted this..

My family owns a small hearth store in Salcha Alaska where it gets 50 below and one of our best sellers are the inexpensive Timberwolf line from Napoleon. The 2200 model on average gets 10 hours which is more than the company states and can heat 1200sqft in on low fire, Napoleon says 800sqft on low but our houses are very tight up here. Our customers burn a combo of Birch and Spruce with fantastic results. I was very skeptical about Napoleon but their product has really proven it’s self. Another great brand that gets over looked is Archgard. The 1800 Archgard gets fantastic burn times with only a 2.0 firebox. The gasification tubes are located high in the top of the stove which makes for easy loading of the stove. Customers have reported solid 8-10 hour burn with one load and 18 hour coal life for easy restarts. Osburn (SBI) builds a rock solid unit as well. I don’t recommend their bay front units like the1800 or the 2200 because they can be a little difficult to get fully loaded due to the design of the firebox and they are double decked meaning that they have upper shield over the upper surface of the stove. If you do get an Osburn 1800 or 2200 get the blower you'll be happier with the stove. When stove companies make statements about burn times and how their stove will magically make your cord wood last longer look at the facts. Firewood only contains a certain amount of carbon energy and a BTU is a BTU. Example heating 1000sqft at 0 degrees outside using a Pacific Energy T5 VS a BlazeKing Princess. Get a good hot fire going in both stoves and then load 20lbs of wood into each stove. You will need roughly 32000 btus per hr.from each stove. Once going and heating the room you will find that the 2 units will burn through the same amount of wood in the same amount of time to heat the same amount of space. Remember a BTU is a BTU and no stove can make energy from nothing. A Catalyst does not give you better burn times, all catalysts do is clog up, break apart, and rob energy that you could use to heat your home. Catalytic stoves can be turned down lower than non-cat stoves but you will notice that you will never see your fire and creosote will start to form on the inner walls of the catalytic stoves. This happens because the catalytic stove has no combustion efficiency and relies on a costly catalyst to maintain efficiency, not to mention when they are run so low your flue gas temps drop to 200 degrees or less (water vapor starts to condensate at 200) and condensation ruins chimneys and creates crystallized creosote which causes chimney fires. Then we come down to catalytic stove break down, cats have to be replaced, cats have to be made in a factory and you have to pay for them... so how efficient is a stove that relies on a part that is made in a chemical factory on the east coast that creates pollution in order to make a catalyst to make a wood stove efficient and uses precious metals like platinum and palladium. The simple fact is that a catalyst will need to be replaced, whether it is in the first year of owning the stove or 10 years down the road...it will have to be replaced eventually and more than once, usually 4-5 times within the life of the stove and at $250-$300 a pop. In any modern stove you will have what is called Pyrolysis. When organic material (wood) is exposed to heat of 390-550 degrees F Pyrolysis starts which is the release of gas and liquid from the organic matter. This gas that is released from the wood is highly combustible and can be used to heat your home if you have the right stove. The only thing the "wood gas" does for you in a catalytic stove is help maintain catalytic temperature (cold cat=no efficiently and a blocked up cat) so in other words you don’t get to use the energy from the gas to heat your area. With a non-cat stove you have under fire air and over fire air so your combustion efficiency is spectacular, catalytic stoves like BlazeKing only use one source of combustion air, no over fire combustion air which reduces combustion efficiency. When you have a non-cat stove you will notice when you shut down the air supply you will get a brilliant blue/orange flame over your wood in the top of your stove, this is the gases produced by Pyrolysis being burnt or "lit off", my customers call it their caveman TV or Aurora in a box and it is beautiful to watch. The energy you get from the gases burning off is used to heat your area. So with a non-cat stove you have two sources of fuel to burn and get useable heat from, the "wood gas" burns first and when that is depleted your stove will burn the carbon rich fuel left behind called char. Non-cat stoves have fewer moving parts which is great because when metal is heated and cooled it becomes week and can break and when parts break its not going to be 60 degrees outside and it sucks when you have a catalytic stove with a bypass damper that won’t open or close because of a part failure. In my opinion, if it’s not evident by what I wrote, I would go with a non-cat stove every time. Select a non-cat stove that will heat your area properly on its low to medium setting so you have room to turn the stove up during cold snaps, use properly seasoned fire wood, if at all possible, and enjoy an appliance that will treat you and your wallet respectfully.
Happy burning

I got run off of ********** for being too "braggy" Hey.. we are all of different times, different personalities and different mindsets. I sure hope this forum doesn't treat people like they do on **********.
 
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Unfortunately, when heat is required, you can forget about long burn times, period. I can see the advantage of low heat/long burn times but when it's down right cold, you need to produce BTU's.
Before I purchased my non-cat Equinox, I did some research on the cat products. The thing I did not like was the lower heat output and the cool flue temps realized during long burn times. One fellow on ********** got literally chased of by the "know-all" ignorant moderators when he posted this..



I got run off of ********** for being too "braggy" Hey.. we are all of different times, different personalities and different mindsets. I sure hope this forum doesn't treat people like they do on **********.

I don't know that he should have been run off, but that is an awful lot of wrong he managed to fit into one post. I wouldn't know where I'd begin to try to correct all the wrongness in that rant.
 
Point out some of his biggest wrongs. I'm up for learning more. Isn't it true that the cat wastes a lot of fuel by simply burning it off just before releasing the heat into the chimney? Why did Woodstock decide on the hybrid design? To take advantage of the gases. Burn them IN the stove.

And again... when real heating is needed... low cool burn simply will not cut it.
 
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I don't really have time to tackle his post; maybe when I'm not at work. But while I wait for some data from the fire lab, let me address you directly-

Point out some of his biggest wrongs. I'm up for learning more. Isn't it true that the cat wastes a lot of fuel by simply burning it off just before releasing the heat into the chimney?

No.

Why did Woodstock decide on the hybrid design?

I don't know, I don't work for Woodstock.

To take advantage of the gases. Burn them IN the stove.

Why do you bother asking me questions if you attempt to answer them before I even respond?

And again... when real heating is needed... low cool burn simply will not cut it.

I'm not sure what "real heating" is, or what you think it is. Maybe you could expound on that. I'm pretty sure anyone capable of lighting a self sustaining wood fire is producing "real heat."

I'm also not sure what you mean by "low cool burn." Is there a high cool burn? How cool do you mean, since cool is a relative term? It's wiggle language.

Bottom line: your heating appliance output needs to be sized right for the heat loss of the structure/heated area.

I'd suggest as a first step learning what "temperature" and "heat" really mean and how they relate to one another. That way you can divorce the two conceptually and begin understanding things better.

Maybe then we can move on to the hatchet job that other guy did on the definition of "pyrolysis."
 
Are there any negatives to cool flue temps? Creosote buildup?

Wow... rough crowd. No wonder i don't last long in the wood burning forums.
 
I switched from a non-cat to a cat this last year. Did it after the research.

It is false to assume that 20 lbs of wood in any stove will deliver the same btu worth of heat into the room. Some stoves are significantly better at converting the energy within the wood into heat for your home. If one stove, a non-cat has high flue temperatures and high flows of flue gasses then it is dumping high amounts of heat up the chimney and not into your home. If a stove, a cat stove, has low flue temps and low flows due to a small intake then you know that much less heat is being wasted up the chimney. This is efficiency, cat stoves are the most efficient in the world.

The big thing that the cat haters forget is that cat stoves can burn hot too. You just turn it up to a high burn rate and even then, it will consume less wood than a non-cat due to the superior efficiency. What experience will show you is that since you are able to run the stove all day at a medium or low output, a high burn rate is just about never needed.

See burning a cat stove is about a steady output all day and not a rollercoaster of surges in output between reloads such as with a non-cat.

New BKs come with a 10 year warranty on the cat element and then 200-300$ to replace. Cheap and not an actual issue.

Lots of people like the Woodstock PH. It serves a purpose for some by providing a pretty flamshow. I am very disappointed with this stove because the "hybrid" feature screws it up. This feature eliminates long and low burn times which is the real reason for a cat stove in the first place.
 
Isn't it true that the cat wastes a lot of fuel by simply burning it off just before releasing the heat into the chimney?To take advantage of the gases. Burn them IN the stove.

And again... when real heating is needed... low cool burn simply will not cut it.

I see your problem. You do realize that the cat is in the stove right? That the cat gets hot and causes the stove to become hot. The cat is often the main heat source and the wood burning is just providing smoke for the cat to eat. The cat isn't to clean up the emissions, the cat is the workhorse, the cat is the stove.

A low cool burn all day can put more heat into the home than a short hot fire. Again, it's a whole concept and style of burning.

I was like you, I liked coming home from work and warming up the house with a nice, hot, eyeball searing fire and then loading again before bed. Just imagine coming home to a warm house and not messing with the stove at all, it's already warm, and the last time you loaded the stove was yesterday before bed.
 

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