Ripping chain

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GoBigBlue1984

Right-wing conservative blue collar American
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If I were to grind off every other tooth from an older but still serviceable chain without annealing the steel and file at 10 degrees across and up will this cut fine and properly remove the chips from a white pine log?

Thanks in advance

Brett
 
Sounds like a whole lot of work... But it should get the job done.


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You haven't mentioned what size the log is and what saw and near length you are using and how many logs you wish to cut.

There is NOTHING special about ripping chain especially in softer wood. The 10º top plate filing angle (TPFA) supposedly improves finish, but finish is ~90% operator dependent and ~10 % TPFA dependent. A good operator can generate as good a finish with 30º TPFA as a 10º TPFA. A lower TPFA does reduces chain vibe and it cuts a very slightly narrower kerf so it eases the load a bit off the motor.
 
It's white pine, I'm fixing to drop in a 49mm 039 top end in a 029 I picked up for very little, it will sport a 25" bar. The log is 26" in diameter at the butt end. It will be cut into 4-5ft lengths for bar tops. Should I just knock off every other tooth with a straight die grinder and abrasive wheel? I don't see why not. Admittedly, this is my first use of the granberg Alaskan mill. I'll move on to cedar logs after the white pine but they are roughly 12-16 inches diameter to be milled as lean-to posts.
 
It's white pine, I'm fixing to drop in a 49mm 039 top end in a 029 I picked up for very little, it will sport a 25" bar. The log is 26" in diameter
26" dimeter will need a 32" bar.

Should I just knock off every other tooth with a straight die grinder and abrasive wheel? I don't see why not..
You CANNOT knock off every other tooth or you will end up with all left or all right hand cutters.
At best, to maintain even cutting you can remove every third cutter but that will make very little difference.
The other alternative is to remove 2 and then leave 2, another is remove two and leave 1.
My experience with all these skip formats in small logs is that the chain just goes blunt faster.
 
I grind two off leave two, sit a cutting disk in the front of the cutter and wipe it off. Doesnt take long. Worth the effort for me because ripping chain is twice the price of ordinary chain. Saw revs better with half the cutters gone.
 
I think you would want to run skip chain with that setup. I've always started with skip, but I don't see why that wouldn't work. I file my own ripping chain, because I just cant bring myself to spend double on it. You end up removing quite a bit of cutter when you change the angle though. It's a lot of work!
 
Just buy skip chain and use it if you are going to plane the wood you're cutting. I use semi chisel, square ground, round filed, or square filed depending on wood species and bar length. I don't have any ripping chain at all.
 
I grind two off leave two, sit a cutting disk in the front of the cutter and wipe it off. Doesnt take long. Worth the effort for me because ripping chain is twice the price of ordinary chain. Saw revs better with half the cutters gone.

My experience that skip chain increases cutting speed on small logs is that is is a bit of an illusion

What really matters is cutting speed, and how often the chain needs to be sharpen.
Removing half the cutters on a skip chain means that each cutter on average now has to remove double the amount of wood each cutter does on a full comp chain.
OR
the revs in the cut have to double - i.e. not likely
While the RPMs do indeed go up unfortunately sound can be deceiving. When using skip chain the tacho on my saw says it maybe goes up by 1000 - 1500rpm. Yep the saw sounds and feels good but doesn't really do that much to the cutting speed across the entire cut.

What few folks realise is that a chain is not like a wood plane.
Each cutter does not take out a neat little shaving with each pass and only about every 3rd cutter on a full comp chain is actually reaching its full cutting potential.
This is because chains porpoise in the cut and only about every 3rd of 4th cutter is really savaging the wood so to some extent full comp already acts like skip chain .
With full comp in a narrow log there may only be one or two cutters actually cutting a significant amount of wood during each pass pass of the chain and the next 2-3 cutters just scratch the wood or follow in the wake of the first cutter.

This effect is clearly visible where washboarding occurs where the speed of the chain and cut are synchronised and there are clearly delineated cutter marks across the full width of a cut. If the math is done on the speeds there has to be at least 2 or 3 cutters just trailing behind the wake made by the cutter that made the major score in the wood otherwise a clear score would not have been made.

On skip chain there even fewer cutters that reaches full cutting potential during an individual pass and that's one reason why on average the saw can rev higher but unfortunately it does not increase the cutting speed because they are not removing double the wood. To increase the amount of wood they take which each pass the rakers should be dropped substantially but any increase will reduce the RPM in the cut so it's swings and round abouts. In the end my experience is that overall it cuts about at the same speed in small logs.

In larger logs with fewer cutters available to share the overall cutting load the skip chain goes blunter faster. A skip chain will make the saw sound peppy and may be a touch faster at the beginning of the cut but by the middle and the end of the cut the cutting speed will drop off faster than for full comp chain. In narrow softwoods it won't go as blunt as quickly but then neither will full comp.

I figure if I have to stop and sharpen anyway, while it takes me longer to setup and sharpen a full comp chain the chain stays sharper in the cut for longer.

Skip chains definitely have their uses on really wide logs where sawdust clearance becomes an issue and even big saws max out on torque needed to pull a full comp chain with a large number of loaded cutters so to keep cutting, a few less cutters helps the saw make it through the cut.
 
Bobl , i love it how you explain everything in detail. Wish i could do the same but im not that clever. I cant comment about cutting speed on small logs. On large logs skip cuts faster than full comp for me and i dont notice it getting blunter any faster because theres less cutters. The most important thing for me is getting plenty of lube on the chain, if theres no extra oil and kero going on the chain it gets blunt quick.
 
Great stuff Bob. I'm still a rookie at this, but just this weekend I've made nearly the same "discovery" that you are reporting here. I try to keep a few chains ready to go, (all skip) and I had my depth gauges filed a bit under .025 on one of them (not on purpose). I might have had a more aggressive hook angle on that one as well. My MS660 just loved that chain - it cut super fast, and it stayed sharp long enough to cut 3 square cants before I hung it up - 2 7x7x7' black cherry, 1 8x8x8' red pine, and slabbed up 1 more 8' red pine log around 20" diameter. The next one I used couldn't finish cutting a 10x10x8' soft maple.

After reading your post, it all makes sense now! :) I think I'll add a full comp chain to the rotation tonight.
 
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