Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

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I agree with some of that and share your frustration but your mixing a couple of points and missing a couple.

It frustrates me that politicians don't seem to understand the science, don't seem to consider whole life affects (creation and disposal, not just use) and have no idea on balancing local pollution vs worldwide impact of greenhouse gases.

with electricity generation, a power station is highly efficient and generation, transport (grid losses) and final useage is usually still more efficient than a IC engine, particularly a 2 stroke. Add to that here in the UK solar has provided over half the energy for the first time a couple of days this summer and weve had our first ever coal free day since we turned our first coal station on, renewables are growing. power stations are also cleaner , its easier to deal with a large polluter in one spot than millions of little ones

petrol is just so easy to transport though, fill a can and away you go, a big job would need a lot of batteries.
Agreed. Not to mention what if the batteries were made from the waste products created from 'scrubbing' coal-fired generators or coal mining itself?
Personally, I hanker for a distributed generation model, but the tech really isn't there for it yet and centralised generation and transmission is still the way to go for the vast majority of the industrialised world.

Also, when batteries are as energy dense as gasoline/petrol, and the box of 'em weighs as much or is lighter than a can of petrol, we'll start seeing the bigger electric saws. Motor tech has come a long way too. The progress is such that they have, in my opinion at least, leapfrogged batteries and wont ever be the bottleneck they once were. The torque of some of these incredibly light motors is quite astounding. Scary even. But they require sustained currents unobtainable from any lightweight batteries of today. Bridge that gap and outrageously good things can happen in so many aspects of our everyday lives.
 
How well would chaps hold up in providing protection while using a battery operated chainsaw?

We did a test/demo at a GTG several years ago, with some retired chaps.

The chaps tripped the overload protection on the 40V battery powered chainsaw, and also jammed the nose sprocket causing the saw to stop.

Can't say that this will work with all battery powered saws, and all chaps. But also can't make that promise with all gasoline powered chainsaws.

Philbert
 
Burning wood releases no more carbon than it would decomposing, so it is said. Making wood carbon neutral.
I like it because it keeps my house warm for cheap!
A bit sideways but for many years here, businesses in need of carbon credits were buying them offshore for a pittance. Our useless government was still valuing the credits at a legislated price far in excess of that. In a few cases the windfall profits many 'polluters' were making from carbon credit arbitrage exceeded the underlying profits of their businesses. What a joke of a system. A contrived market distortion that has done almost nothing to reduce pollution.
 
London, I understand where you are coming from. I have done more than a little research into renewable energy. While I have no practical experience in producing grid power, My brother is one of the few people left that is qualified to operate, hydro, steam and nuclear power plants. I have sat and listened to his tales and stories. Best one is when someone ask him why the lake levels dont stay up year round. His answer is always, do your lights come on when you throw the switch. Pretty much sums it up. Everyone expects to just be able to hit the switch and lights turn on. Very little is ever thought about what it actually takes to make that happen.

I read some research paper once that claimed that a area of 10,000 acres (dont hold me to that number, may have been sqmiles)), covered in solar panels could produce all the electrcial needs of the entire US. Since the sun doesnt shine on the same spot 24 hrs a day it isnt practical without some sort of storage system, This would probably have to be some sort of battery. Now the argument can be, and has been, made that putting up 10,000 acres of solar panels would take up to much land that could otherwise be used for something else. My argument to that is, there is way over 10,000 acres of roofs on houses and factories. Take a heck of an infrastructure to tie it all together for sure.

In that same research paper, those same 10,000 acres could supply enough algae alcohol to keep every automoble in the country running, with out the need for petroleum gas or diesel. Uhm let that one sink in for a minute. Wonder how many acres are in corn production now just to make ethanol to put in our gas tanks. Algae alcohol has other extra side benefits, it can be fed with waste water raw sewage and garbage, all it needs to work is sunlite. Best part is the by products is clean water and high protein feed stock.

I have no problems with using battery powered tools and buying ethanol gas to run my car. Do it every day, but I do realize where its all coming from and have no illusions as the how little it actually does to clean up our environment.

I have also fought the fight with the govenment about installing my own hydro generator. Most folks dont know that any water that doesnt originate and terminate on your own property, the government owns it. Thats right, that spring, creek or river running thur you land isnt yours. Think that isnt so, read about the folks that have had to remove their rain catching ponds to allow the rain water to run on down the valley. even rain barrels catching runoff your gutter spouts isnt yours to catch.

You will read everywhere that the power company has to buy any excess power you can produce. Put in a solar panel and sell power back to the power companies. Well, that just isnt true. You might be able to get them to buy it from you, but they dont actually pay you anything. They give credits, They credit it on your power bill, but it isnt a even credit. They only have to credit the amount it would cost them to produce the power themself, but when you use it back, they get to charge you what they normally would charge anybody else for the same amount of power. You dont get to sell them 10,000kw of power and then take it back for what they allowed you in credit. Also, if you dont ever need the power they have given you credit for producing, well, they wont write you a check, they just keep it, they profit off your work.

Then you have the regulations you have to meet if you decide you want to put in a hydro power system and sell (give) them your excess power. They have to design the system and approve every aspect of the installation. This alone will add massive cost/fees to the your installation. I am going to built my system without the government interference. I will also be connected to the grid, but will be able to throw a switch if I need the grid power. I wont be doing the net metering thing, screw them. If they want me to pay them to do the install and wont pay me for any power I produce, they can go buy another bucket of coal.
The same barriers to adoption of distributed generation apply here too, Mr Mudd. Incumbents fearful of a death spiral will do almost everything legally possible to ensure we keep contributing to their network costs in particular.

I did a micro-hydro feasibility study for farming friends a few years ago. At that time the law still allowed such water use with relatively few restrictions. The $50k costs were paid back in under 4 years (closer to three), but they couldn't afford the up-front costs. Had they done so, the system would be almost paid off by now in savings alone. It didn't stack up if we had to grid connect (hurdles from incumbent providers and no feed-in tariffs) and neither did storage systems stack up - the costs of storage systems made the pay-off negligible. Instead the electricity was wasted when it couldn't be used to displace/augment the incumbent providers electricity. It was a dairy farm, so they had huge peaks in electricity use twice per day during milkings and then some general consistent baseload needs for houses, milk chiller, etc. We even had factored into it water pumping to huge tanks high up hills as far as the pumps would go, to take the electricity that would have otherwise been shed from the system during low-load times of the day. The tanks would gravity-feed to troughs and augment the supply of the water for washing down the milking platform.

What's coming down the pipeline from battery tech will make renewables so much more viable. But like you and others have noted, the renewables aren't always as clean as they are marketed, if people stop to think about the bigger picture and full life-cycle implications of such systems.

*editing to add* We've a NZ business doing fantastic (but highly overpriced) farm motorbikes. Two wheel drive, go darn near anywhere, with storage for tools, farm stuff, etc. Things like that could have sucked up some of the excess generation the micro hydro scheme produced outside the peak usage times. Heck, I know of electric motor tech that is being tested in farm tractors. Even just a decade ago, whoda thunk of battery powered farm tractors. May we all live in interesting times.
 
I started hitting the quote button but it wold be too long to quote Jeff, mudstopper and Kiwibro. So I'll just 'Agree' and make some further random points.

with renewables there is no single silver bullet, we must mix wind, solar, wave and tidal, plus biomass (wood) of course....oh and better insulation/efficiency.

In the uk we are well located for wave and tidal, the Severn estuary (the bit blow Wales and above Cornwall) has the 2nd largest tidal range anywhere in the world and the area that could be barraged off is immense, it could replace several power stations....but it costs loads so it has never happened. So frustrating....instead we ask the French to build us new nuclear stations funded by the Chinese WTF!!!

All our solar is really small local genration, mainly householders with a few panels or their roof. This summer we had a day or 2 where solar acounted for over half the power in the day, I was surprised.

fluctuating renewables like wind and tidal can make matters worse. Coal stations have to fill the gaps or shut down and that fluctuation maks them inefficient. We need better storage!

Failure to really REALLY think things through causes perverse effects as the legislation or acton come in, for example, The wood I burn, like virtually all wood waste of any kind (old furniture, arb waste, anything) if i didn't burn it would go to our Drax power station via our local recycling centre. The UK put the Drax coal station over to biomass completely as a major contribution to meeting our Kioto/Paris carbon reduction targets. Drax is now such a large consumer it needs to be fed and wood is shipped in from arond the world, some fro the states, and from places where forests are being clear cut in unsustainable fashion. Studies (by Greenpeace and the like, so take a pinch of salt but) suggest the energy used to transport and process (chip)is greater than the energy needed to generate the same power using coal sourced locally and the damage done by unsustainable forestry makes this worse.....to be good renewables need to be local...burn local arb waste like me!
 
We did a test/demo at a GTG several years ago, with some retired chaps.

The chaps tripped the overload protection on the 40V battery powered chainsaw, and also jammed the nose sprocket causing the saw to stop.

Can't say that this will work with all battery powered saws, and all chaps. But also can't make that promise with all gasoline powered chainsaws.

Philbert

Yeah, I can't see how the power source has any effect on the mechanical process of stopping a chain. I don't see a battery powered one being capable of overriding a snagged up chain. I very well remember the trouble I had clearing the results of hitting a hunk of baling twine.
 
I mentioned plutonium as it powered the Cassini spacecraft for the padt20 years, all the way to Saturn.

Problems with all energy sources. As an old fart, I'm waiting for a methane powered saw.

Philbert
I too like to fart, and deplete the oooozone layer in my shorts! lol
 
I too like to fart, and deplete the oooozone layer in my shorts! lol
The rotting vegetation on land flooded for large hydro schemes, and the vegetation that dies and rots during seasonal changes in hydro lake levels, releases vast amounts of methane. I'd like to see the EPA come up with a cat muffler for that.
 
The rotting vegetation on land flooded for large hydro schemes, and the vegetation that dies and rots during seasonal changes in hydro lake levels, releases vast amounts of methane. I'd like to see the EPA come up with a cat muffler for that.
you know I will bet their working on that right now!! as we all know the governments money is never ending! lol
 
Wanna know why governments haven't pushed solar? How do you tax it?
If the gubmit really cared we would get huge tax credits for installing off the grid equipment. The more we rely on them, the more money they make. If they cant gain money or power from it, they dont care about it. If they can make money from it, it's illegal to use/do without paying for a permit.
 
I was yardsailin this morning , I managed to scrounge up 2 axes
A Hults Bruks and another unknown , 15$ for the pair
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I also scored 4 cans of this stuff for 30$
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Then I get a call from the developer , he's got a couple of rush cutjobs , cut and leave tree length , he'll haul out and one that's about 20 miles away , he offered money for that job :)
Here's this afternoon's scrounge , septic field in the tree line
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BE-xXmofOH0gGN3opcZtNhqc0FqTa3lCxsaTw8qL-tiek4_f-X73w_8i8E_-RZL6fpbKyM_jDR5QBe6dG1WNKGsaCcwHtxWFfWGu8AjISr2nQ9_6qFR0UJnxzqpI0mWhAbeivfqUq9s0I2v1jqmtMTR2VNYaFFF7YKg-HMYtgj44WrGkuQeZnDJvkeekwqDEa6NX_3Jb52VDVocqk9RoWM11UcmpFjgioe4byd7KSESkUi4R3nforw72A7ReYrXhzX6sQ73RBzNnuWbFQSsfZvO4pNOOk2SjRQdXUjRrXipRQIUr84s-HmaZtp8Gz4ONAzVynvdaWTjrPtC7-AUa2x5hCyBUqJmL7G7ir0iHgzFvxmLpl5zM9hdOFYZrIekn14JKGxtX_jDm2E41U-ssY1w5KUFWosxSEfMO4e3GoPlpVsr8quni9L34Z5Dse_VghFHcPf49XRMdz4phDoZ30_NOx5Nk1IvNBc6vU91VXP9-Y0StIYIVRxUCW7LrKj1QJWo7v4KJ_es5tvbTXA1O8Z90p41tIbD0o0YQeYIDvQdIVzFSQ-7Kmxvxl4tnd59Cw9v2HIrUyZMDeOfYpPVJNgWUfEXqWy1cBBy9GDqXZHzNH-CwyQrU-pChNuZrTe5yoHxakCSpCzaKhviq2oc5nKRmVNhN5nVRZgGf=w1920-h909-no

1NvYLqCtfpIpGGte-hUFwT8uNhwbX0pD7yPCw4NNsHyjOe0mpdtCqnXHuY6xgNv8i_uIkDpht8-JUtB4cuUWpbi62FYM3VA4hWg6BUBa1quuaB4gq10ydplHF3l7OS9jKzLCvqOSC2r2bMFKrvSaZe-A8RTbyQi6KyraqN9nG_GJseMS4ka6toutynPmNB-bOq23elvcVdbdgP7vMDnGsVvQMMLREj36IjvgPeE3tfIXbW_O5PXdt5Q1BMiAK_4MkgrI5GmmYyZV0PsWYkP01SnXeJeHG_M1KxCdaYhvF8smfTHrllQdMn8Ce_ek9JYizRAmP_48YOBaXNcAsg8fxAn6cI9gTOQ8ARIOVDc1ML4SRAWImTm1VjsEALjOKlHYTyjoKKStSkCbCOGL5IT_TPMluXIUdVBLhd244uGfDstrAqewftZGTnsC-mrujG3FBLGYBR9a6EiN5542_Umd37BwQc_RgZIREKbZSgGmSt_pQyH_O2k2bHkEHB6-0WrWfCxkAgsFIYvsB7Y4VtWsQFYKLJG61nMOB1WB7oXPULThGmvVElvs9ptENRmT5rzImA_-CF_4R085Fd4034Zpe8CpFTFm2WEg7ykjVFflze7WW0ABMjQU9W_OvG6XP7dvtgA4G1wCqa6CES0qTzA97hAi5baJkWH9sl8H=w1668-h938-no

Polly a cord of maple and 2 of spruce , I didn't delimb the tops down to Zoggerwood because of time constraints lol
This maple did get fetched up higher in the other trees than this pic
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I hate leaving trees fetched up on a job so I went to the truck , grabbed my pv and a sling
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It was too small for the pv hook to grab but the sling worked perfect and I was able to roll it out of the tops .
I'm starting to think I have a surplus of wood ...
 
Wait a minute. Dancan, you don't get paid other than in wood for most clearing jobs? Are you selling the firewood or consuming it all or? I tried to do clearing jobs here and taking the wood only as payment. It didn't stack up on any level other than feeling good. A small profit from selling firewood only just keeps it going without any serious profit. Occasionally I work a profit share deal - they underwrite my reasonable costs, and we split any profits above that. Obviously, when the wood is 'highly valuable' or "highly dangerous" they don't mind paying a hourly rate for the felling work alone.
 
Up to 5 years ago I was doing cleanups and clearing lots as a second income , I didn't burn any wood at that time .
After I broke my tib/fib I put a woodfurnace in but the wood supply dried up due to the lengthy recovery time and not being able to cut for money.
Luckily Pioneerguy600 brought me a load or two of wood and got the OK from his boss for me to cut on some of the lots they were clearing , that gave me access to some wood and a lot of rehab with lots of pain and slow gains.
As time went by I met Jerry's (pioneerguy600) boss , he gave me a key to the gate and permission to scrounge all the wood I need (as long as it's dead or blowdowns) . I can hunt there plus get rock or gravel from his quarry as well .
As my mobility increased Jerry asked if I would help cut the power line for the subdivision and I haven't looked back since lol
Another reason that Jerry or myself cut for Paul just for the wood is that there are other locals that will do the same so we want to keep that door closed because the next thing you know is that they get a key to the gate and .....
The big house lot that I cut last fall and over the winter was for another fella that Paul referred me to, he did pay me for fuel and a bit , I gave 5 cord away , sold 3 , hauled 4 cord home and there's polly 15 cord there yet .
It has been a personal challenge to see how far I can push myself.
Paul does find that I'm very efficient at getting the job done and is happy with my work .
I do have a separate pile of logs that I bought to sell as well .
I hope that makes sense.
 
We did a test/demo at a GTG several years ago, with some retired chaps.

The chaps tripped the overload protection on the 40V battery powered chainsaw, and also jammed the nose sprocket causing the saw to stop.

Can't say that this will work with all battery powered saws, and all chaps. But also can't make that promise with all gasoline powered chainsaws.

Philbert
With over load protection on battery saws, that would make them a bit safer than 120VAC saws. The one electric I had, had no overload protection, other than the circuit breaker in the house.
 

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