Shop Re-Sharpened Chains vs. Factory

[Ted Jenkins]

Yeah many of us have used grinding machines and they are fine for their intended use. Many years ago when I worked for a Stihl dealer I set up a couple of machines to do an OK job on customer chains. For me it was a matter of grinding a bit off the cutters and on to the next. Pretty much never had any complaints. For folks who want to set up a cheapo or quality grinder well they can do a nice job. There are many mods that can be done to make them perform well or to some perfect. However a hand file job is by far faster cheaper and sharper than any grinder. Yes or no? There are things that can be done with a file that are not easily done with a machine. A machine grinds every tooth the same, but a hand file job for most part takes only what is needed for every tooth so they last a little longer. A hand filed chain is a little sharper than any machine job so for a bit it is rasor sharp. It takes me less than 10 minutes to sharpen a 36" chain on the saw including touching the rakers. For me there is no debate one vs another. However it is hard for me to understand why so many get so involved with using a machine to sharpen chains that can be done better by hand. Thanks

 

[HarleyT]

Yeah many of us have used grinding machines and they are fine for their intended use. Many years ago when I worked for a Stihl dealer I set up a couple of machines to do an OK job on customer chains. For me it was a matter of grinding a bit off the cutters and on to the next. Pretty much never had any complaints. For folks who want to set up a cheapo or quality grinder well they can do a nice job. There are many mods that can be done to make them perform well or to some perfect. However a hand file job is by far faster cheaper and sharper than any grinder. Yes or no? There are things that can be done with a file that are not easily done with a machine. A machine grinds every tooth the same, but a hand file job for most part takes only what is needed for every tooth so they last a little longer. A hand filed chain is a little sharper than any machine job so for a bit it is rasor sharp. It takes me less than 10 minutes to sharpen a 36" chain on the saw including touching the rakers. For me there is no debate one vs another. However it is hard for me to understand why so many get so involved with using a machine to sharpen chains that can be done better by hand. Thanks

There is a big difference between your "touching up" and sharpening a rocked out chain.

 

[Philbert]

However it is hard for me to understand why so many get so involved with using a machine to sharpen chains that can be done better by hand.

Preference. Skill levels. Consistency.

Especially when I have a bunch of chains to sharpen, or have ones that need more than a few file strokes per tooth. Learned long ago that 'sharpen' means different things to different people: for some, it means maintaining an already sharp edge; for others, it means that the back of the tooth cuts as well as the front of the tooth!
(HarleyT beat me to making this point!)

Philbert

 

[Khntr85]

Yeah many of us have used grinding machines and they are fine for their intended use. Many years ago when I worked for a Stihl dealer I set up a couple of machines to do an OK job on customer chains. For me it was a matter of grinding a bit off the cutters and on to the next. Pretty much never had any complaints. For folks who want to set up a cheapo or quality grinder well they can do a nice job. There are many mods that can be done to make them perform well or to some perfect. However a hand file job is by far faster cheaper and sharper than any grinder. Yes or no? There are things that can be done with a file that are not easily done with a machine. A machine grinds every tooth the same, but a hand file job for most part takes only what is needed for every tooth so they last a little longer. A hand filed chain is a little sharper than any machine job so for a bit it is rasor sharp. It takes me less than 10 minutes to sharpen a 36" chain on the saw including touching the rakers. For me there is no debate one vs another. However it is hard for me to understand why so many get so involved with using a machine to sharpen chains that can be done better by hand. Thanks

Hello sir, I see you are twice my age, so you have the upper hand in experience no doubt....you say you set your machines up to do an "ok" job.....that's just fine, but if a guy wants to do better he can, and easily as a matter of fact!!!

You say you can do a 36" chain in 10 min.....well if you can do a rocked chain in 10 minutes, my friend PLEASE post a video as I would love to learn your tricks....now if you mean you can "touch it up" that's totally different.....

As far as it being hard for you to grasp people using a machine to get a great chain, I thought the same thing at one time....however I put in the time and gave the "machine" a chance....all I can say is I am glad I did....

As far as "sharp" goes, what sharp is to me and what sharp is to my customer is a totally different thing....also what sharp is to a guy cutting pine on the coast, and what sharp is to me cutting Osage in the Midwest is 2-different worlds!!!!


With that said I ABSOLUTELY still hand file and I love doing it....but I can get a great cutting chain with a grinder too....if you get a chance please post a few pics of cutter you have filed.....please don't take this post wrong, I am just giving my 2-pennies too!!!!

Chisel(aggressive)



Semi chisel

 

[CoreyB]

Also are we talking about work chain or a cookie cutting. I seem to be able to machine sharpen a chain at work that holds an edge longer then when I sharpen at home.

 

[Ax-man]

Wow, Khntr your camera does an excellent job of taking those close up pics. I know my camera can do it because I have done it but taking these close up photos in my shop of chainsaw cutters leaves a little to be desired because of the lighting and shadows.

Anyway here is the latest in my ongoing romance with my grinder doing a full chisel very old Oregon 72 chain . Check out the depth gauge . Again I am trying to get the chain to look like I hand filed it. It is close but not quite. The chain cut good with that same old Homelite and test log. The chips weren't bad but the previous Carlton chain seemed to produce a little bigger chip.

I played around with the grinder yesterday pm . The question I have right now is the tilt angle for the grinding wheel. How much does the tilt affect the inside repeat inside top plate angle. In theory when you hand file it is suppose to be 45 degrees. When I got this grinder it was set at 45 and I just assumed that was correct like it would be for hand filing. My instructions call for 30 degrees which I have been doing, however I don't know if the pointer for the scale is correct . When I put one of those angle measuring devices up against the wheel it reads in the low 20's, moving the head to read 30 degrees on the angle device moves the scale to basically 40 degrees.

I first ground this chisel chain at that 40 degree setting and it looked good till I looked at the side plate, looked like it had too much hook . I went back to 30 degrees on the pointer and redid it . Do we look right from the pictures. I should have made a test cut and pics to see if there was a difference but time is limiting for taking a chain on and off the saw.

I hope I am not being a pain the rear with my posts and pics. I have kind of derailed the original thread a little.This to me is better than getting into those what is wrong with my saw threads which I try to stay out of. I also hope that maybe others are also leaning from this thread .

 

[Stihl 041S]

Yeah many of us have used grinding machines and they are fine for their intended use. Many years ago when I worked for a Stihl dealer I set up a couple of machines to do an OK job on customer chains. For me it was a matter of grinding a bit off the cutters and on to the next. Pretty much never had any complaints. For folks who want to set up a cheapo or quality grinder well they can do a nice job. There are many mods that can be done to make them perform well or to some perfect. However a hand file job is by far faster cheaper and sharper than any grinder. Yes or no? There are things that can be done with a file that are not easily done with a machine. A machine grinds every tooth the same, but a hand file job for most part takes only what is needed for every tooth so they last a little longer. A hand filed chain is a little sharper than any machine job so for a bit it is rasor sharp. It takes me less than 10 minutes to sharpen a 36" chain on the saw including touching the rakers. For me there is no debate one vs another. However it is hard for me to understand why so many get so involved with using a machine to sharpen chains that can be done better by hand. Thanks

Until it is demonstrated, one forgets the very great difference that exists between the merely competent amateur and the very expert professional.........Linus Van Pelt.
Sounds like you were a guy in a shop that sets up a grinder to just get them out. Like you said.
Any skill needs work.
Like machining.......there is a skill level.
You have to be very self critical to get better at things.
And one 36" loop of chain ain't squat when you are doing relief work. And the files used to do say 20 loops of rocked Stihl chain will cost a good bit. And the grinder doesn't get tired and the wheel holds an edge better than a file.

 

[hedge hog]

Have you tried a new chain loaded in your grinder and match the angles


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ax-man]

If your talking to me, No, but that is a very good idea. I will definitely try it. More good camera shots . Are you guys using some type of extra magnifying lens or a large magnifying glass to shoot those pics. Those are incredible shots , I can see the grain of the metal in those pics just like I can when I finish hand filing .

I picked up another good idea from the pic . Coloring the connecting link. That makes a good visual for a starting and stopping point on the vise. I do that when making chains so I know which link to break.

 

[hedge hog]

I think I did on that pic and worked great or I zoom it


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[hedge hog]

Magnify glass with my iPhone
Or zoom in


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[hedge hog]

That picture was with my new diamond wheel CBN and a very light pass as you can see I didn't get the cutter shiny in the very corner


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[HarleyT]

I worked at a shop once that had a bottle of white out on their grinder station. Also had very poor lighting. So I brought in an adjustable lamp, and one day I took the white out and gave it back to the office lady. A little later that same day, I heard one of the other guys yelling about someone taking his whiteout. I told him that I took it back to the office, I thought someone just set it there by accident.
"I need that!!!"
"Why??" I asked.

"So I know when I am done sharpening the chain!!!!!"

 

[Ax-man]

I saw that , but that is still one wicked looking tooth. Your light years ahead of me if you have on of those CBN wheels.

 

[HarleyT]

I saw that , but that is still one wicked looking tooth.

That is considered a real compliment here in Ky........

 

[svk]

That is considered a real compliment here in Ky........

 

[hedge hog]

I saw that , but that is still one wicked looking tooth. Your light years ahead of me if you have on of those CBN wheels.

Thanks
I started with the CBN for the .404 chain that I sharpen for a company with Holtec saw and was nervous that wheels be a hassle when the chains are 205 drive links apiece
So I had to get the narrow wheel for the smaller chain and love it
When I get to it I will take a close up with the Stihl stone vs CBN


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[Khntr85]

Wow, Khntr your camera does an excellent job of taking those close up pics. I know my camera can do it because I have done it but taking these close up photos in my shop of chainsaw cutters leaves a little to be desired because of the lighting and shadows.

Anyway here is the latest in my ongoing romance with my grinder doing a full chisel very old Oregon 72 chain . Check out the depth gauge . Again I am trying to get the chain to look like I hand filed it. It is close but not quite. The chain cut good with that same old Homelite and test log. The chips weren't bad but the previous Carlton chain seemed to produce a little bigger chip.

I played around with the grinder yesterday pm . The question I have right now is the tilt angle for the grinding wheel. How much does the tilt affect the inside repeat inside top plate angle. In theory when you hand file it is suppose to be 45 degrees. When I got this grinder it was set at 45 and I just assumed that was correct like it would be for hand filing. My instructions call for 30 degrees which I have been doing, however I don't know if the pointer for the scale is correct . When I put one of those angle measuring devices up against the wheel it reads in the low 20's, moving the head to read 30 degrees on the angle device moves the scale to basically 40 degrees.

I first ground this chisel chain at that 40 degree setting and it looked good till I looked at the side plate, looked like it had too much hook . I went back to 30 degrees on the pointer and redid it . Do we look right from the pictures. I should have made a test cut and pics to see if there was a difference but time is limiting for taking a chain on and off the saw.

I hope I am not being a pain the rear with my posts and pics. I have kind of derailed the original thread a little.This to me is better than getting into those what is wrong with my saw threads which I try to stay out of. I also hope that maybe others are also leaning from this thread .

Looks like you are betting better each time!!!!

As stated it is a great idea to try and match up your grinder to new chain....

The pictures I take are with an iPhone believe it or not....if you can keep the hand steady they take GREAT pics....


Here is a Oregon Vangaurd chain that was if horrible condition....it cuts VERY good, And these are great work chains now.......the rakers on the vanguard have to be checked....I see a lot of vanguard that the raker is so high the cutter can't bite the wood!!!!

 

[jakethesnake]

Vanguard chain is a mess if you have only a file to work with. That looks pretty good khn

 

[heimannm]

I give all my Vanguard chains to Philbert...

Mark