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Splitters are overrated in splitting force

Discussion in 'Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment' started by AKKAMAAN, Oct 13, 2008.

  1. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    Seems like most manufacturers need to take a math class or/and business ethic class.

    There is a pressure rating limit on hydraulic components, and 3000psi or 200bar is a very common limit for components. Components rated higher than 3000psi make a huge jump up in cost. That’s why most splitters are built with components rated 3000psi or less.

    Most splitter are built with 4” and 5” cylinder diameters.
    4”cylinder will push a 6.25 ton force for every 1000 psi system pressure
    5”cylinder will push a 9.8 ton force for every 1000 psi system pressure

    As you can see it is impossible to get 34 tons out of 4” cylinder if pressure is less than 5370psi, or a 5” cylinder if pressure is less than 3460psi.

    Make sure you splitter have at least a 5” cylinder if you want to be even close to these bragging right splitting forces. Or maybe it is enough with a 12-16 ton splitting force????

    Here are some examples where splitters are advertized with BS ton rating and simple math show it’s impossible. First let’s agree on how to calculate the splitting force.
    Cylinder Force,F, is the product , of system pressure, p, and the cross area, A, of the piston or the bore. F=pxA.

    Area on a circle is calculated as the diameter, D, by it self, D2, multiplied with Pi, 3.14, divided with 4. A=D2x3.14/4.

    Take a look at this NorthStar Horizontal/Vertical Log Splitter — 37-Ton http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200326296_200326296
    3500psix5”x5”x3.14/4psi=34ton if the SYSTEM PRESSURE is 3500psi. It says the max pump pressure is 3500psi but that could be the max rating for the pump. WHAT IS THE SYSTEM PRESSURE?? It is still not 37 tons


    Next one. Log splitter Model # 9000 http://www.splitez.com/log_splitter_woodsplitters_9.html
    Ad says ”34 TONS OF SPLITTING FORCE”. The cylinder is rated 3000psi, they don’t tell the system pressure, which can’t be more than 3000psi.
    3000psix5”x5”x3.14/4psi= less than 19.5 tons, which is just little more than half the 34ton rating.

    Last one. http://www.americanmsr.com/product-specs.htm
    All their splitters have a 2500psi system pressure. The 24 ton splitters have a 4” bore which give you a less than 16 ton force. They have one 25 ton and a 26 ton splitter with 5” bore which give you 24.5 tons. That ‘s almost acceptable. Half a ton off.

    Most manufacturers and retailer don’t show all “the cards” in their data sheets. And they know they are putting up BS tons on their splitters. I have checked about 20 different ads on splitters and only these three have provided enough data to do the math. So I think we need this business to start straighten up………Otherwise we will keep buying bigger and bigger splitters just for bragging rights and not for actual power force……. I have a feeling the cycle times are a little more accurate, checked a few briefly and they look close to OK, but I’m sure there are some sales people that didn’t pass the junior high school math to calculate the cycle time either…………….
     
    Lignum likes this.
  2. mga

    mga Tree Freak

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    good post, akkamaan.

    we've questioned this many times here as well.

    most of us use hydraulic tables to determine tonnage in a splitter, apparently manufacturers have their own tables they go by.
     
  3. Nailsbeats

    Nailsbeats Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Tell us something we don't know, lol. Marketing lies, that's all.
     
  4. HUSKYMAN

    HUSKYMAN Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Numbers sell splitters, doesnt matter if they are true or not.

    Its the same as throwing a 22" bar on a 40cc Poulan Wild Thing. Hey it has a 22" bar so it is made to cut big trees all the time, right?
     
  5. ktm250rider

    ktm250rider ArboristSite Operative

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    So what size splitter would be adequate for a 10 cord per season user? I just borrowed my first splitter to take out some 20-24" pine that I just couldnt get with the maul. Dont know the specifics but it took them out just fine. Most of my hard woods I like to split by hand. Im deffinately afflicted with "BIBS" (bigger is better syndrom) but would I really need a 33 ton or would a 27 ton be sufficient?
     
  6. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    first we gotta start taling about real force, not the bs force in sale ads......
    for the price this seems to be a good deal....it's called for 22ton if it makes 3000psi it will do 18.75 tons. 1360$ and also add the 4 way wedge.
    http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200326288_200326288http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200326288_200326288
     
  7. Nailsbeats

    Nailsbeats Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Get the 27T speeco, fastest cycle they have and at a great price. I just got one and absolutely love it. I made 300 face cord a year growing up, so I have run some splitters, built some too. Bigger is not always better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  8. wkpoor

    wkpoor Addicted to ArboristSite

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    My splitter has only a 4" cylinder with only 2000lbs pressure and does just fine. Sure there is an occasional piece it can't get through but never seen a piece the chainsaw couldn't get through so I don't worry about it. My big deal in splitters is speed, baby speed!!
     
  9. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    Rebuild your splitter and add 3-5 times the speed with a regenerative function on your directional valve or a automatic inline valve between directional valve and cylinder. What it does is that it disable the piston on the rod and only push on the rod. 4" bore with a 2" rod will go 4 times faster.

    They both do the thing but the one built in to the directional valve is manual, it's 4 position directional valve with 2 speeds out price about 100$ from Prince
    MODEL LSR-3060 RAPID EXTEND LOG SPLITTER VALVE

    The inline automatic valve is from Sun Hydraulics and cost about 170$

    This regenerative function seems to be used on many 25-50 000$ firewood processors
     
  10. Patrick62

    Patrick62 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Yep.

    My machine will go to 22 tons, no doubt about it.
    My beam would probably fold over at about 18 tons.

    Thankfully I don't do hard woods out here. I can cut pine in half sideways.

    I know the math pretty well, 5" cylinder, 16gpm pump and a 15hp engine.
    It ain't fast. Very effective.

    -Pat
     
  11. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    I'm sure it does 22 tons if you have at least 2250psi system pressure
    15hp and 16 gpm pump is respectable, should be very effective....
     
  12. 046

    046 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    let me get this right... with a directional valve... it's possible to increase speeds by 3x -5x faster?

     
  13. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    yes sir, the increase depends on your piston rod diameter...the thinner diameter the faster speed.
    read the Prince Hydraulic product informationfor the MODEL LSR-3060 RAPID EXTEND LOG SPLITTER VALVE

    this is a qoute from that pdf-file.....
    "STANDARD FEATURES
    • Hydraulically balanced, hard chrome plated spool
    • Handle can be installed in “up” or “down” position
    • Extend flows of up to 25 GPM with inlet flows of 4 GPM
    • Relief valve adjustable up to 3500 PSI
    • Tandem center spool
    • Manual shift from high speed mode to high force mode
    • Spring center 4 position spool with soft stop
    • Pressure release detent on retract
    FUNCTION:
    The Prince LSR-3060-3 log splitter valve features an extremely
    fast “Rapid Extend” high speed mode. The LSR
    has been specifically designed to reducesystem costs by
    allowing a single stage pump to be used in systems currently
    using two stage (hi-low) pumps. When extra splitting
    force is required, the LSR allows the user to manually shift
    form high speed mode to high force mode. A “soft stop”
    differentiates between high force and high speed modes.
    Laboratory testing has not shown a significant difference
    in working cycle times between single stage/rapid extend
    systems and two stage systems. (Working cycle is the
    average time between extending the cylinder to split the
    first log and extending to split the next log after the split
    wood has been removed and a new log has been placed on the log splitter.)"
     
  14. 046

    046 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    OK... thanks.... this may fix my speeco 35 ton (25 actual), dog slow 15 second cycle times.

    $100 to speed up cycle times will be well worth it. will I have to change out any hoses? it's got 1/2in ID currently... would need 3/4in to upgrade to 22 gpm pump.
     
  15. Wet1

    Wet1 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Try a Super Split, you'll never look at another hydraulic splitter again! ;)
     
  16. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    You should definately upgrade to R17-12 3/4" 3000psi on at least on that valve port going to the piston rod side of cylinder. (piston going in)

    URL: www.princehyd.com • E-MAIL: prince@princehyd.com • PHONE (605) 235-1220
    Contact Prince, and give them your pump data (cui per rev and rpm) bore diam, piston rod diam. They will tell you if you can get FULL performance with your pump-cyl combo. I guess you will end up with a 5 sec high speed cycle, because your regenerated flow will be higher than valve rated 25gpm.
    Prince will also give you the local retailer for this valve. There was a 6 week waiting list on this valve when I called. Good luck!
     
  17. AKKAMAAN

    AKKAMAAN AboristSite Guru

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    Very impressive!!
    Wonder how it will do with a 4-way wedge??
    http://www.supersplit.com/index.htm
     
  18. cityevader

    cityevader ArboristSite Operative

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    So does that mean the regeneration valve can't be used with a 2 stage pump if you already have it?
     
  19. Wet1

    Wet1 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Probably not all that well, but then again I also haven't felt a need for a 4-way up to this point... You can split a lot of wood very quickly with the SS, even w/o the 4-way. In fact, I'd guess a SS would still run circles around all but the top of the line hydraulic units equipped with a 4-way. But then again, those models are MUCH more costly than a SS and I'm still not sure some of them would run with a SS, even though they cost 2, 3, even 4 times as much

    I've run many hydraulic splitters and I can tell you I'll never go back after running the SS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
  20. 046

    046 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    called Prince several times... and got the deluxe run around.
    all I want to do is buy a valve... can't get thru to technical... they referred to a distributor.... who referred to a salesman.... who referred to an outside sales.... arggggggg

    what a way to treat someone to wants to spend $$$

     

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