Square filing. Who has tried, and given up?

[redprospector]

Andy is these the ones you mean?

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=638+1080&catID=

How do these work with the sides rounded a little?

Yep that's the one's. That's a good price Bailey's has on em too.
The rounded edges make the goofy files a little more forgiving than the double bevel files. You still have to get the corner of the file in the corner of the cutter, but you don't have to worry about the angle of the cutting edge of the side plate. In my opinion a chain sharpened properly with a goofy isn't quite as fast as one filed properly with a double bevel but still faster & smoother than round. The big thing is that they are more forgiving for those just starting out. Most people get discouraged if they don't see results pretty quick, and you'll see results quicker with a goofy file.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

No hand sq filing here, too lazy and too awkward to find a position for these old eyes to see well enough.

I cheat and use my ProSharp which is really quick and easy (3/8). Every now and then I use my 510 (which is setup with a 1/8 inch wheel these days as I am running alot of smaller chain) to clean out the gullets -- works fast and easy.

An honest man, worthy of rep.

Andy

 

[wigglesworth]

Im fixing to try filing square myself. Only for playing around though, not for working. Anybody have an old granberg they want to get rid of?

 

[redprospector]

It's late, so I'm not going to try to address all the questions tonight. But I'll add this right now.
Unless I'm in a bind, I won't use off the roll square ground before it's been sharpened.
One mistake a lot of people make with sq. chain is to file the rakers down too far. .025 is about as low as I'll file them. Smoothness of the cut (not tearing wood), and keeping the chain speed up are two keys to the faster cutting.
I don't have any videos to compare square to round chain.........because I don't have any round. I'll look to see if I have any videos of work chain though.

Andy

 

[parrisw]

Yep that's the one's. That's a good price Bailey's has on em too.
The rounded edges make the goofy files a little more forgiving than the double bevel files. You still have to get the corner of the file in the corner of the cutter, but you don't have to worry about the angle of the cutting edge of the side plate. In my opinion a chain sharpened properly with a goofy isn't quite as fast as one filed properly with a double bevel but still faster & smoother than round. The big thing is that they are more forgiving for those just starting out. Most people get discouraged if they don't see results pretty quick, and you'll see results quicker with a goofy file.

Andy

Thanks Andy, I'll give it a shot. I was planning on just converting some round chain to square? Is that ok?

 

[jack-the-ripper]

Is Oregon the only company that makes square chisel.

Stihl also makes square grind. I order mine from a saw shop in Washington listed on their website. No sales tax either. I hand file my chains as square grinder is too expensive for the weekend warrior.

 

[2000ssm6]

Stihl also makes square grind.

Yup. The standard full comp is RSLK, half skip is RSLHK and full skip is RSLFK. My 3 local guys don't stock it and had to be ordered.

 

[B_Turner]

An honest man, worthy of rep.

Andy

But I do admire your ability to hand file square, though. How you can reproduce the angles accurately by eye (without waste) is beyond me.

 

[B_Turner]

Yup. The standard full comp is RSLK, half skip is RSLHK and full skip is RSLFK. My 3 local guys don't stock it and had to be ordered.

I know I am repeating myself, but I greatly prefer the stihl square because it holds an edge much longer than Oregon or Carlton. Extra important with square chain.

 

[B_Turner]

It's late, so I'm not going to try to address all the questions tonight. But I'll add this right now.
Unless I'm in a bind, I won't use off the roll square ground before it's been sharpened.
One mistake a lot of people make with sq. chain is to file the rakers down too far. .025 is about as low as I'll file them. Smoothness of the cut (not tearing wood), and keeping the chain speed up are two keys to the faster cutting.
I don't have any videos to compare square to round chain.........because I don't have any round. I'll look to see if I have any videos of work chain though.

Andy

I really agree with the too low a raker thing. Especially with freshly sharpened square. No lower than .025.

That way the chain just screams through the wood very efficiently severing and removing crips chips.

It makes round ground seem anemic.......

 

[2000ssm6]

I know I am repeating myself, but I greatly prefer the stihl square because it holds an edge much longer than Oregon or Carlton. Extra important with square chain.

Same goes for round. I have more experience with Oregon than Carlton but neither can hold a edge like RSC imo. I hear others gripe about the high cost of Stihl chain, ya get what ya pay for.

So far I like this RSLK and will have to sit down and learn to sharpen. I really want a nice round grinder, would love to have a Silvey. I'm at the point where I got about 30 chains and all my buddies want me to do theirs. Hand sharpeing is killin' me.

 

[wvlogger]

IThat way the chain just screams through the wood very efficiently severing and removing crips chips.

what are they Ganster chips lol:spam:

 

[parrisw]

Well I ordered up 5 of them goofy files. We'll see how it goes.

 

[J.W Younger]

I guess my biggest issue is the angles...I have read what angles are best and just don't understand why?......On round 30° is best but they say 22° on square?...Why so much difference?...

Off the reel cl is 45/45/15
this is a little bit blunt but prob a decent comprimise.
The angle I file at gives about a20deg top plate looking down from the top.

 

[SWE#Kipp]

Good vid parrisw.
It would be interesting to see all the variables that were used in the comparison, like how well the round chain was filed, raker height and if the same saw was used and whether the same operator did the cutting.
Sometimes testing can be skewed in favour of the results that are desired.

John

It was the same saw for both chains, but i don't know/remeber if the roundfiled chain was out of the box or not, but i can't get my roundfiled chains to cut as smooth and fast as with the squarefile guide, making a faster roundfiled by taking down the depth guage is what i can manage but then the smooth cutting i long gone

The video was made as fair as possible but none the less it was made to show that the guide makes for faster chains and not to show that roundfiled is faster and better

 

[redprospector]

Andy, I could do one side not so bad but the other side I kept searching for the right angles and further botched up the cutters.
I found it hard to keep the corner in the corner, than gave up ground them square instead, so I got spoiled. I've since sold the sq. grinder, but would like to try the goofy.
It's my opinion that most can round file 5x faster than sq. Also with round filing you can progressively keep the gullets clean with the round file unlike a sq.file.
I can round file a 16" wood dull chain in under 2 minutes which gets me back to cutting much sooner than if I was trying to sq. file.
It would be interesting to compare the times of a perfectly filed round chain to perfectly filed sq. My guess would be that the sq. would be 10% faster.

John

You're right, the gullets are a PITA when they need to be cleaned out.
It's taken me a little over 20 years of square filing to get there, but I can touch up a 28" wood dull square chain in 6 or 7 minutes. But that's when it just takes a couple of strokes to get her back in shape, and with a good sharp file. The duller the file gets the longer it takes.
I would guess the square would give more than a 10% advantage, but I've never been able to produce a "perfectly filed" chain of either persuasion.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

It is a case of wanting to. But doing my homework and finding out it would be a giant waste of time. Andy, is the pinon in your neck of pretty clean? The stuff I've got access to is pretty dirty stuff, lots of dirt and sand. It is almost as dirty / gritty as juniper. That stuff eats up stihl RS and RSC chains for dinner. I've given up on full chisel in favor of semi-chisel chain.

I am writting this post sitting in a cabin in pagosa springs co, the area has tons of large ponderosa pines. Heck, there is a nice sized ponderosa pine (90ft x 26") next to the window. I can see that it is nice and clean compared to scrub trees that I cut for firewood.

Mike

Mike,
I'm too close to White Sands National Monument & Missile range to have much clean wood here. When the wind blows everything turns grey until it rains.
Square ain't for everybody, but once most learn to maintain it they never look back.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Thanks Andy, I'll give it a shot. I was planning on just converting some round chain to square? Is that ok?

It can be done, but just starting out I'd recomend starting with square.

Andy

 

[parrisw]

It can be done, but just starting out I'd recomend starting with square.

Andy

Ya I thought that, but I'm going to try anyway. I got lots of chain, and don't want to order more, nobody sells square around here, that I know of anyway.

 

[Gypo Logger]

You're right, the gullets are a PITA when they need to be cleaned out.
It's taken me a little over 20 years of square filing to get there, but I can touch up a 28" wood dull square chain in 6 or 7 minutes. But that's when it just takes a couple of strokes to get her back in shape, and with a good sharp file. The duller the file gets the longer it takes.
I would guess the square would give more than a 10% advantage, but I've never been able to produce a "perfectly filed" chain of either persuasion.

Andy

Andy, that's about as honest of a post as it gets with regards to filing. Had I discovered and been forced to sq. file back in 81, I may be a better sq. filer today. lol
John