Starting a business

[Great Feller]

I formed an LLC in July and I will be the only employee/owner. It is meant to be a small forest consulting/tree service side business to compliment my full-time job. I made sure nobody in Iowa had my business name and got my "employer id number". check that off the list.

I then contacted the Small Business Director at the college and got some free info. Wasn't real impressed with the help. You get what you pay for.

I then filled out the articles of organization sent that in. I then got a fancy letter back saying I had paid the $50 bucks and that the secretary of state acknowleded my LLC. That leads me to my second question.... Is that paper with the seal of the secretary of state my "business license"?? If not, I do not have anything saying "business license". Check?

I also sent in for a sales tax permit because tree trimming/felling,firewood sells in iowa is a taxable service. On the form I also had to fill out when I wanted the tax year to end. I put August?... Will I get something in the mail come July letting me know to get my taxes and stuff together?....check

I set up a business checking account using my ID number, got a business credit card too.... check

I've been purchasing equipment for years.... knowing this was what I wanted to eventually do. I have 3 saws: MS 460, husky 455, Ht 131,and a small poulan 14" saw, wedges, helmets, chaps, chain, punch and spinner for making chain, chain grinder, files, guides, log chain, binders, tree marking paint, etc. Lots of other little things.

I bought a trailer and 4 wheeler to use striclty for the business. I told my insurance company business use,,, come to think of it they never asked for my tax id number... I'm paid up on that until aug 09. Should I look back into that?

I bought a truck with my personal checking account and have a personal insurance policy on it. It is the only vehicle I have and I figured I'd use it more for personal use than business. I didn't put it under the business because I didn't want to get caught using obvious business assets for personal use and therefore risk my LLC protection.... It seems to me you can use personal assets for your business and be ok... I don't know.
I keep a mileage log in my truck and record all miles used for business.

As for accounting,,,, I'm keeping track of my miles, expenses, income, bank statements, etc. I'm organizing it all in a binder. My sister is an accountant at the New Holland dealership in town. I think she'll help me out come tax time. I don't think I'll have a lot of business transaction since it's my first year and things aren't looking too hot.

Liability insurance: I found 1 million general liability to cover all my services for 72 bucks a month. Have not bought it yet, still shopping.

Called city hall in all the towns I want to provide tree felling/trimming to see about additional permits/licenses. Good on that. check

Other licenses and training: 4 year degree in Forestry from Iowa State, Game of Logging course, State licensed Nuisance wildlife control operator, soon to be state licensed commercial pesticide applicator. Check

advertising.... Haven't done any yet. I'm waiting to get the pesticide license and liability insurance. I'm going to put an add in the paper. Maybe get some business cards.

Overall, am I missing anything??? Am I really to the point where I can start doing work? Is all the BS of starting the business about over??? I'm ready to spend my time working,learning, and buying new equipment.

I would love to hear some feedback. Thanks!

 

[ddhlakebound]

It sounds to me like if you can sell jobs and do treework as well as you've organized the licensing, insurance and accounting you'll be quite successful.

I didn't see any mention of how you're going to accomplish aerial work. You'll need to cover that part somehow, or eliminate yourself from a fairly large percentage of "tree service" jobs. Having both a bucket truck owner/operator and a climber available as sub contractors would increase the work you could perform, at least until you can buy your own bucket or hire a climber.

Also, ropes and rigging gear are not mentioned. Even without a bucket or climber, there are lots of times ropes, blocks, biners and lots more are indispensible on the ground. Throwball, poles, pole saw head, and pruner head get used daily as well.

If you've got a local printer for your business cards, great, if you're going to order from the internet, vista prints is the best i've found yet. Ordered several times from them with no problems.

Do you ever get down to Blakesburg? I spent 1st through 8th grades there, and used to run the hills and woods west of Blakesburg where I lived.

 

[Great Feller]

DDH,

I don't mention tree topping because I don't have the equipment yet. I'm not a climber either. I don't even desire to do BIG jobs in town where there are too many powerlines and homes. I'm starting small and working my way up. Maybe I don't have much to offer???? I'm definately interested in a 252 stumper.
Yeah I make it through Blakesburg every now and then. Lots of Deer and timber over that way. I'm originally from Albia....

 

[clearance]

DDH,

I don't mention tree topping because I don't have the equipment yet.

Oh no, here we go..............

 

[BC WetCoast]

DDH,

I don't mention tree topping ...

Sounds like you need to learn the job before you can do the job. You may want to go and work for someone else for a little while to learn how to do the job, how to estimate and sell the jobs, what paperwork you should have. No need to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Great Feller]

I'm speechless

 

[reachtreeservi]

:monkey:

 

[ddhlakebound]

I don't mention tree topping because I don't have the equipment yet. I'm not a climber either. I don't even desire to do BIG jobs in town where there are too many powerlines and homes. I'm starting small and working my way up. Maybe I don't have much to offer???? I'm definately interested in a 252 stumper.

What services are you planning to offer? Quoting from your other thread, I see a few potential problems with what you're thinking.....

1. An old lady wants you to come over and cut a small tree down and haul it away. It might take an hour to cut and load it.

2. A guy wants you to come over and fell a tree that leaning over his garage. It's not a bad lean, something you can wedge over.

3. A farmer wants you to come over and spend the day cutting and skidding hedge posts out of his back 40.

4. After an ice storm a person calls and wants you to trim some broken branches in there front yard. Stuff you can reach with a pole saw.

1. The one hour cut and hauls will be few and far between....those are jobs handled by sons, grandsons, and chainsaw owning neighbors. If you can find them, you'll have to bid tight, because they're easy in-n-out jobs.

2. The problem wont be the lean, it'll be everything in the way of where you'd like to fall it.....If the dropzone is open, they'll have their uncle Charlie come over and tie the truck to it, and cut it down themselves

3. Farmers have farm hands who look at a day of sawing outback as a vacation. They have tractors to skid whatever they need. They have chainsaws, and don't typically want to pay tree service rates for farm hand jobs. So even if you can find a farmer who wants posts cut, he'll want to pay farm hand rates, and justifiably so, it's farm hand work, and not something you need licenses or liability insurance for.

4. Of all the jobs you look at after an ice storm, maybe 5% will ONLY have breakage that you can handle from the ground. If you don't have a lift, bucket, or climber, you'll be out of luck.

Not many jobs can be handled from the ground with no rigging, its all about the high and heavy work...Lots of people can cut from the ground. Sorry to be negative towards your plan, and there may be lots of aspects of tree work you could focus on without aerial work, but either way, you've got alot of learning to do, if you want to get the cart back in front of the horse where it belongs.

I'm speechless

Why?

 

[Great Feller]

I can see why you guys are negative about what I'm wanting to do. Maybe I need to explain a few more things. I'm not wanting to be an arborist. I agree that a guy without a boom truck and ropes is not an efficient operation. Who starts out at the top anyways? Unless you were born into tree service equipment or go into debt who has it all from the start???? If you are expecting me to have all the equipment necessary, just go ahead and mail me a couple hundred grand. Get me squared away. I'd gladdy take it. I forgot, along with all that extra equipment I'm going to need a place to store it,,, extra money for insurance, maintenance,,,etc. Send more cash for that too.

I'm a forester. That's what I went to school for. I also like running a saw, I always have. I don't plan to just do tree felling/trimming. I'm going to offer timber sale preparation, timber stand improvement, nuisance wildlife trapping, and eventually I would like to have a stump grinder. In addition, I will keep working full-time at my day job.

I appreciate all the people on these forums that are sympathetic and helpful.

 

[appalachianarbo]

Speaking as one with a forestry background but who now does arboriculture, they're two different animals. The transition is not an easy one without proper training and guidance.

Sure, there are jobs you can do that don't require leaving the ground - BUT - many people who need a tree service need someone who can get up and around their trees. If you show up to a bid, but can't do what they ask, your potential clients will wonder why you are advertising as a tree service and your name will travel fast via word of mouth.

Why not scratch your itch for running a saw by doing the TSI work yourself? Little to no cleanup, hardly any overhead, and you might be able to get insured for just forestry instead of tree care operations.

I'm not being negative, just practical. Find a tree service to apprentice with for a while - get the techniques down, find out what equipment will work for you, then go for it.

By the way - what's the 4 wheeler for?

 

[ddhlakebound]

I can see why you guys are negative about what I'm wanting to do. Maybe I need to explain a few more things. I'm not wanting to be an arborist. I agree that a guy without a boom truck and ropes is not an efficient operation. Who starts out at the top anyways? Unless you were born into tree service equipment or go into debt who has it all from the start???? If you are expecting me to have all the equipment necessary, just go ahead and mail me a couple hundred grand. Get me squared away. I'd gladdy take it. I forgot, along with all that extra equipment I'm going to need a place to store it,,, extra money for insurance, maintenance,,,etc. Send more cash for that too.

I'm a forester. That's what I went to school for. I also like running a saw, I always have. I don't plan to just do tree felling/trimming. I'm going to offer timber sale preparation, timber stand improvement, nuisance wildlife trapping, and eventually I would like to have a stump grinder. In addition, I will keep working full-time at my day job.

I appreciate all the people on these forums that are sympathetic and helpful.

That sounds much more workable, especially as a part time gig.

Just for the record, my business partner and I have been in business for about 3 years now, and we started out with nothing but our daily driver pickup trucks, some old and busted homeowner type saws, a borrowed trailer, and about a grand to buy basic climbing and rigging gear. We left our line clearance jobs and went out on our own.

It's been a struggle, but we've made enough to keep from working for someone else, and built up more gear and equipment along the way, and don't owe a dime to anybody. Now we've got good saws, dump bed chip truck, old chuck n duck, decent stump grinder and lots more gear, and getting ready to expand into more areas of tree care than just running a saw or grinding stumps.

It's slow and difficult to start from the bottom with next to nothing, but it can be done. Others have started where I did, and grown much bigger much faster. It's more about the knowledge you have, and how much effort you put into continued learning, and marketing yourself successfully. And then doing what you say you can do.

You've got a degree, and ideas of how you want to use it, and your whole business in place as far as paperwork and accounting. So in many aspects, you're ahead of the curve for small time startups. So get busy marketing what you can do now, and get to work.

Please don't take my negativity towards some of what you posted as negativity towards you, just trying to give you accurate feedback from my perspective...

 

[Great Feller]

I will be doing the TSI myself, from the management plan I have to clear with the district forester to cutting of all the undesirable trees. That's one reason why I need a 4 wheeler. I can throw my saw and equipment on it and head to the back 40. I'll also use it while i'm out marking/measuring timber. Skidding hedge posts and firewood. I also got licensed as a state nuisance wildlife control trapper. Gotta have a 4 wheeler for beaver trapping,,, period. Plus I'm not shoveling snow off my damn driveway anymore! On top of that I got an unreal deal on it.

Anyways, I guess I'll just advertise small to medium tree work? I don't want people calling or expecting me to be able to cut down their 100ft tall cottonwood tree in the front yard. I just bought an MS 460 last year and an HT 131 for $625 bones last week,,,, I'm doing tree work of some sort guys.

You brought up a good point about getting just forestry insurance instead of tree service insurance. I don't think I can go with the cheaper "forestry package" since I'm cutting trees down for TSI. They always ask who will be cutting the trees. Plus, I know I'm going to run into people who are going to want trees cut down, don't know what kind of situations but whatever the case, I think I need good coverage. I will be getting a SC252 stump grinder soon too. I'm not going to be able to do everything but I'll have some services to offer.

Now what do you think??? The last thing I'm going to do is go beg my competition for a job so I can learn how they top trees and fill out estimate sheets. I don't care how they do it. I wouldn't even call those big outfits my competition. Those guys won't step foot on somebody's yard without asking at least $600 bucks. People don't like that and they'll look around first. If I think I can do the job I'll take it on. If it's too risky,,, well those big guys will get their $600 bucks I guess. We have 40 acres of trees around our house. There has NEVER been a time when I thought our only option was to call a tree service company to come in and cut a tree for us. I have taken on a lot of scary tree situations. I'm good at what I do.

Anyhow, I'm running my own show here. That's why I've started my own business.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Now what do you think??? The last thing I'm going to do is go beg my competition for a job so I can learn how they top trees and fill out estimate sheets. I don't care how they do it. I wouldn't even call those big outfits my competition. Those guys won't step foot on somebody's yard without asking at least $600 bucks. People don't like that and they'll look around first. If I think I can do the job I'll take it on. If it's too risky,,, well those big guys will get their $600 bucks I guess. We have 40 acres of trees around our house. There has NEVER been a time when I thought our only option was to call a tree service company to come in and cut a tree for us. I have taken on a lot of scary tree situations. I'm good at what I do.

Anyhow, I'm running my own show here. That's why I've started my own business.

Just using the term topping shows that you don't have a clue about the tree care industry. As a professional forester myself, I know that industrial forestry and urban forestry are very different and if you want to get involved in the urban industry, then you need some experience. When I switched from industrial to urban, I quickly learned that my 25 years of industrial experience provided very little benefit to the urban environment.

Good luck in your forestry biz as that is where your work is going to come from.

 

[mckeetree]

Just using the term topping shows that you don't have a clue about the tree care industry. As a professional forester myself, I know that industrial forestry and urban forestry are very different and if you want to get involved in the urban industry, then you need some experience. When I switched from industrial to urban, I quickly learned that my 25 years of industrial experience provided very little benefit to the urban environment.

Good luck in your forestry biz as that is where your work is going to come from.

Yep.

 

[appalachianarbo]

Just using the term topping shows that you don't have a clue about the tree care industry. As a professional forester myself, I know that industrial forestry and urban forestry are very different and if you want to get involved in the urban industry, then you need some experience. When I switched from industrial to urban, I quickly learned that my 25 years of industrial experience provided very little benefit to the urban environment.

Good luck in your forestry biz as that is where your work is going to come from.

+2

The last thing I'm going to do is go beg my competition for a job so I can learn how they top trees and fill out estimate sheets. I don't care how they do it.

Listen - If you want to run a one man tree service - you will need to learn how to climb. Period. You will go absolutely nowhere in the tree care side of your business if all you can offer is felling, pruning up to 15', and stump grinding.

If you're not going to take the time to learn the ropes, stick to the stuff you do know. Use your saws and equipment for TSI, and leave the residential stuff to your competition.

And stop mentioning topping. That's only giving you a bad rep here.

This is not the industry for some dude with a couple chainsaws to say "Hey, I know how to cut a tree down. I bet climbing is easy, too!" Either spend the time learning the ropes yourself, or be prepared to hire a competent climber who can do what you can't.

 

[Great Feller]

Screw this,,,, I'm sick of explaining myself and I'm especially sick of the few condescending people on here that basically ruin these forums. If your so damn good at what you do then get off your computer and go execute because you are not helpful to the new guys.


TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING......

 

[appalachianarbo]

Condescension? No. Constructive criticism (which you obviously don't want to hear)? Yes.

Just giving it to you straight. I'm all for new businesses out there, but it sounds like you want to take a big shortcut.

Let me ask you this - would it be appropriate for someone who ran a tree service for a few years to go buy a D tape and a biltmore stick and go cruise timber with no forestry training, and advertise as a forester?

 

[tree md]

You sound like the guy that I threw in with. When we started out he had the large saws, pole saw and truck and trailor to haul away debris. He would free climb (hillbilly style) to a point. but would turn down larger trees. I brought to the table my climbing gear and experience, my knowledge of sales and advertising as well as ariel lift experience and experience at taking down large trees. We made a very good team and have done well together. We now have heavy equipment and a solid customer base and stay pretty busy. Sounds like you need to find a well rounded climber with sales and advertising experience and see how far you can go.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Screw this,,,, I'm sick of explaining myself and I'm especially sick of the few condescending people on here that basically ruin these forums. If your so damn good at what you do then get off your computer and go execute because you are not helpful to the new guys.

What you're taking as condescending is simply the facts of reality based on experience. Most working treeguys are pretty straightforward, don't take it personal. You can listen now, and learn for free, or forge ahead, and learn in your own time at your own cost....

TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING......

Topping is bad, people who practice it in residential arboriculture are hacks. I hope you learn that before you find a way to get off the ground. For now it's better for the trees that you're stuck on the ground.

 

[Great Feller]

Sorry for getting mad guys.... I can't take criticism, I admit it!
This is like my pole saw thread,,, I argued with guys on here for days that Poulans were cheaper and I was going to buy one. Guess what, I ended up getting a stihl.

How much is the dang climbing gear going to cost me? Just the minimum stuff to get me off the ground a little ways. A list with some prices would help out. Do I need one of those little arborist saws? I'm not a big fan of heights either. I can see your points and how I'll be way more effective If I can get my ass off the ground.

I don't have a clue how to use all the pulleys, ropes, spikes, etc. I assume I can rig all that up by myself? This is a one man show remember. Do I need to get a book or dvd on the subject?

What are some of the biggest dangers to look out for when doing this? I can't believe I'm actually considering this now!