Stihl 044 10mm Rebuild Options

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Firstyear50

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Location
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I have an early 044 that is in need of a complete rebuild, well seals + P&C anyway. This being a 10mm saw, I'm torn on the best way to rebuild it (other than shelling out $400 for OEM stuff). Here are my options so far:
1.) Replace the seals and buy the Hyway 10mm p&c kit for around $120.
2.) Buy an entire 12mm crank case that has been pressure and vac tested, with an OEM cylinder / hyway piston. There's one on Fleabay right now for $165, then I could sell my left over parts.
3.) Just keep searching for good used all OEM parts for $??

I know this issue has been gone over and over, but there were so many options discussed out there, my head is spinning. Also, most of the threads I came across were a few years ago when maybe the used OEM stuff was easier to find? I'm not sure, they seem nonexistent atm...
Either way, can someone please give me their input on the best route for this saw? If anyone has a better option than what is listed, please let me know!
 
If i were you i would contact Dave for potential parts, i would use all OEM or at the very least OEM parts with meteor piston, keep the 10mm they are awesome saws. i have two and one that's a backup i was thinking of selling, but its pretty beatup looking.
 
Clean the cylinder up and put a meteor piston and rings in it. Get ya a good rebuilt kit with bearings and seals and go cut wood. Keep the setup you have.
 
Clean the cylinder up and put a meteor piston and rings in it. Get ya a good rebuilt kit with bearings and seals and go cut wood. Keep the setup you have.

Unfortunately I don't have a cylinder to clean up. Looking like that will be my first step though; find an oem 10mn cylinder and go from there.
Has anyone seen one for sale lately?
 
There's 3 OEM angled fin Mahle 044 cylinders on eBay right now.

Two are with the same seller, one with a buy it now, one auction listing.

Thanks! I did see the first two, but wasn't sure what the whole Mahle branding meant.
I'll go ahead and start bidding.

Thanks everyone who replied, I really appreciate it. I'm sure I'll have a ton more questions as the build goes on. This will be my first complete rebuild!
 
Thanks! I did see the first two, but wasn't sure what the whole Mahle branding meant.
I'll go ahead and start bidding.

Thanks everyone who replied, I really appreciate it. I'm sure I'll have a ton more questions as the build goes on. This will be my first complete rebuild!

Mahle was one of the companies who made cylinders for stihl.
 
Mahle was one of the companies who made cylinders for stihl.
You know, I read that, then also read that the mahle's were a.m. and not up to oem quality. So then I was confused and was searching for a stihl only branded cylinder. Thanks for the clarification though. Always great to get a straight answer after pawing through thread after thread!
 

I could be wrong, but I have always been under the impression that the OEM cylinders from 10mm 044 saws had either one or two "+" symbols next to the 1128 on the top of the cylinder? If that's true, all three of these are actually from early 12mm saws.
 
I could be wrong, but I have always been under the impression that the OEM cylinders from 10mm 044 saws had either one or two "+" symbols next to the 1128 on the top of the cylinder? If that's true, all three of these are actually from early 12mm saws.

I don't know everything about 044's, but from the saws I've seen, 10mm KS (Kolbenschmidt) cylinder saws have the + symbol on the top. Mahle cylinder 10mm 044's do not have the + symbol on the top. Few pictures for reference.

One owner, low hour, 10mm 044 Mahle cylinder saw. I don't think anything has ever been swapped around on this saw. No + symbol.


DSCN9748.JPG



One owner, low hour, 10mm 044 KS cylinder saw. I don't think anything has ever been swapped around on this saw. Note + symbol.


ks044.jpg



NOS 10mm Mahle cylinder kit I have. No + symbol.


DSCN5019.JPG


I looked at my project/basket case 10mm 044's also, the Mahle cylinder saws don't have a + symbol, the KS cylinder saws have + symbol.


,
 
I don't know everything about 044's, but from the saws I've seen, 10mm KS (Kolbenschmidt) cylinder saws have the + symbol on the top. Mahle cylinder 10mm 044's do not have the + symbol on the top. Few pictures for reference.

One owner, low hour, 10mm 044 Mahle cylinder saw. I don't think anything has ever been swapped around on this saw. No + symbol.


View attachment 501258



One owner, low hour, 10mm 044 KS cylinder saw. I don't think anything has ever been swapped around on this saw. Note + symbol.


View attachment 501259



NOS 10mm Mahle cylinder kit I have. No + symbol.


View attachment 501260


I looked at my project/basket case 10mm 044's also, the Mahle cylinder saws don't have a + symbol, the KS cylinder saws have + symbol.


,

Good information - I didn't know the Mahle cylinders don't have the "+" symbol. So, other than measuring the port timing, is there any way to know for sure if a slant fin Mahle cylinder is from a 10mm saw or an early 12mm saw before the fins went 'straight'?
 
The ++++++ signs and letter number combinations on the base and tops of jugs are related to which mold series and number were used for that particular cylinder. Molds are made from a master mold and are replaced frequently so the parts they make remain in proper specifications. The codes also help designate design and manufacturer changes in a product line, they are there for the benefit of the Stihl engineers in case of a product failure.
The A, B, C, or AB stamped on the top center are precise bore measurements to allow the assemblers to match the proper size of piston quickly when building and testing the saws.
There were 4 main manufacturers of cylinders for the pro level saws from Stihl. Some custom builders attribute legendary status to certain models of specific cylinders, but none are inferior.
If you are going to have a ported saw built then all the numbers and such are meaningless because a good builder will change whatever is necessary to build a badass work or race saw as requested by the owner.
Mahle cylinders are normally marked as such either on the top or along the side of the base which cant be seen with the cylinder installed on the crankcase.
Koblen Schmidt cylinders are normally marked with a capital K and S stamped on top of each other, again on the top or side of the base.
Gillardoni cylinders seem much less common on the pro stihls but make nice power on the few I have seen, all have been marked on the base.
Stihl branded cylinders are normally marked only on the base or will have the "S" logo lightly imprinted on the top.
Recently the 1122 series cylinders for the MS660 have had very faint and "mushy" KS logos imprinted and are easily misidentified as simply Stihl cylinders, the telltale mark is much stronger in the piston itself on these.
A handful of these recent KS jugs have excellent numbers for both stock and ported saws.
Jason used one on my hybrid and said the numbers were fantastic ( I certainly agree with the results).

To the OP, if you are going to rebuild as a 10mm saw you can use any 12mm jug you want to as long as it is a standard bore size.
I recommend the OEM 10mm piston slightly over the 10mm Meteor piston. I have used and sold both with great results but at least one builder I respect has put forward the theory that the slightly larger space between the piston pin bosses in the Meteor 10mm piston may, over time, lead to early failure. Meteor used the same spacing as they use on their excellent 12mm pin piston and it is slightly wider than the 10mm OEM spacing.
Likely a non-issue, but that little voice in the back of my head makes me wonder.

You CANNOT use a 12mm piston in a 10mm cylinder without some careful modification. Some guys use this combination on ported GTG saws, but on a stock saw it will ruin your piston and cylinder quickly as the ring will hang in a port.
You Cannot build a big bore saw on a 10mm chassis for this reason as there is nobody who makes a 10mm piston in anything but standard bore.
Dave
 
Thanks Dave, filling my cart now with the rest of the parts to finish the project!
My next question: I have another 10mm case that is in far better shape that I'd like to use for this project. I've ordered new bearings and seals, just for piece of mind. Would ordering a new crank mean that I don't have to split the old case? This is my deepest experience with the 044 so I wasn't sure if all the doner parts I need off the parts saw would be available without splitting the old case. I don't have any case splitting tools or any easy way to make the homemade version so I'd like to avoid splitting it if possible.
 
I am not sure if a 10mm crank is still offered by Stihl and I would be very surprised if there was an aftermarket version.
I bet a local small engine shop would do the case splitting for you pretty cheaply if you already have the saw torn down.
remember to remove the case pins so you don't crack the crankcase
Dave
 
I am not sure if a 10mm crank is still offered by Stihl and I would be very surprised if there was an aftermarket version.
I bet a local small engine shop would do the case splitting for you pretty cheaply if you already have the saw torn down.
remember to remove the case pins so you don't crack the crankcase
Dave

If anything I would just order a used oem crank. The flywheel side threads on the one I have are in rough shape so I wouldn't mind starting fresh. Just talked to the local small engine shop though and they said they could split it for me no problem at all. I'll start there and only replace it if I have to. Now I just wait for the new parts to come in.
So far I have ordered a complete set of OEM seals, OEM crank case bearings, OEM piston bearing, carb kit, an OEM P&C from a fellow member, new caber rings, and the complete rubber kit. Anything else I should consider replacing while I have this thing torn down? At this point I would have been further ahead money wise to buy an already running 044, but I'm using it as a learning experience. So If there's literally anything more I should look for, please let me know!
Again, thanks for all the help here, I really appreciate it.
 
the shop may be able to chase or dress the threads on the crank as well for a few bucks, it would save you a decent bit of time and money, ask them to look at the big end bearing closely as well, you don't want to have to tear it down again anytime soon :)
 
...Looks like I got a little bit ahead of myself. All my 10mm specific parts arrived and were ready for assembly yesterday. I got as far as the wrist pin needle cage when I realized I should have looked more closely before ordering my parts. The crank is most definitely a 12mm crank, which leads to my next question(s):
1.) The serial number is broken off, but it starts with x141-738*** that should be a 10mm correct? I thought I did my research well enough to determine that.
2.) I also have another crank case, serial number 122-773-401 this should also be a 10mm?
3.) Any reason these serial numbers run in different directions? one reads left to right, the other reads right to left?
4.) I now am looking for a 10mm crank, has anyone seen one for sale lately?
 
my modded 044 project:

for my 10mm 044 I am going to run it 10mm. am modifying and reducing the weight of the meteor piston, quite a bit heavier than stock. I will run a new OEM wrist pin bearing... but use the OEM 10 mm w. pin as it is thinner and lighter. wear would be described best as burnished only. on a working everyday arborist saw I acquired. I also have acquired a new 044 12 mm crank and related parts as I plan to also eventually build it into a 12mm BB 044/6 modded saw. I have modded and ported my OEM 10mm cylinder and related components. I did a lot of R&D as to parts and sourcing. I decided to go with a couple of ebay vendors who were in the location of a lot of lumberjack work, did a lot of saws, modified saws, had 100% ratings, used the parts they were selling for their customer's lumberjack/timber/cutting work... and offered a 1-yr warranty on the parts.

good luck with your 044 rebuild. hope u will post up pix (lots) maybe even an indepth utube how to. there is some good 044 stuff there, but not a comprehensive one on the 044 rebuild...

the meteor piston weighs about 12 grams more than the OEM 044 stock piston...

044.png

ported 044 exhaust port, stage 1, then port, muf and gasket all size matched and pinned...then port got polished

P2080025.JPG
 
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