STIHL 193t vs Husky 435
- Thread starter katoom400
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Well if your after 12-18" your buddy with the 026 has the right idea if he's got that saw running right and sharp just grab a pair of gloves and tag along let him cut and you move brush you shouldn't be able to keep up with him if he's knows how to run it ...... But maintain a healthy distance so your not tripping over one another just my too scents ....... Honestly wen I get into 12-18 in the trees I send my 192 down the rope and ask for the 25 with a 18" bar ...... You can do alot with an underpowered saw if your determined but after yu get the right size saw for the job you'll wonder how you ever did it
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katoom400
ArboristSite Lurker
no doubt that is the way to fly! he usually cuts and 1 or 2 of us pick up the pieces and toss them. The problem is that he can't always be there, and many times the trail goes where quads can't get to, and sometimes we like to keep it that tight so they don't get in and turn it into an interstate. The dirt bikes we ride have plates, so we can get to remote areas via the road and hop into the trail very easily. I'm sure the larger saw will work better in the big blow down areas, but they are much harder to transport via motorcycle.
Ok how about no frills setup I have had my 390 20" bar and 440 25" bar on the back of a klr650 with gas and oil when I was cutting tops for firewood used to ride around 5 miles down well roads to get to them only took the truck when we were hauling out on the weekends rod the bike in to the mess to cut ...I used a rubber mat and a cargo bunji net ........ Yeah the mount is cool but after the storm cleanup how much are you gonna use it ??? the rubber mat and bunji net setup is cheaper and a 390 will cut way faster than the 192 ...... I still use the bunji net all the time on my bike there around 10$ rubber mat to keep the saw from sliding around well Old inner tubes are free most places ........ I'm pretty frugal if you haven't noticed save the money from the mount and buy a few extra chains and a piggy back can .... Point the bar out the back and make sure it has a chainsaw condom over it
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katoom400
ArboristSite Lurker
you are more of man than me sir....strapping a big saw on a big bike!
no way a big saw is going to stay on my fender with rubber mat, and bungee's.....it's way more than dirt roads I need to travel to get to my trail cutting spots....and a 300 two stroke bike has way less substantial fenders than the KLR650...I'd need some kind of rear rack which nobody makes for my bike (Beta 300rr), they do make them for the ktm's and such but they cost as much as the front rack. the advantage to the front rack is the easy on/off and easy/universal to switch to another bike. a rear rack is pretty much a permanent mount specific to that bike...
The downside to the (trail tech) front rack...specific to 1 small top handle saw (192/193t)
ktmguy-
one thing i've noticed about this thread is that most hombres think you should do it the same way they do. you have special needs and unique solutions. i agree about the idea of bungeeing a 20lb saw behind. i can't even keep a sixpack back there.
anyway for a bit of levity, i'll show you my "offroad" rig. it has good good fenders... on the back.
a ford 8n with a custom rack
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Not in any way saying you need to do what I did just throwing it out there its what I've done in the past that being said the dirt roads were more like washed out gas well access roads with inclines steep enough my truck would only do them in 4 wheel and don't stop until it flattens back out or ur screwed that kinda dirt roads my buddy hauled the wood out he's the one with the balls cuz we were taking 8 face a trip truck and trailer no trailer breaks back when his truck was shiny and scratches were noticeable I just wanted to throw couple other ideas out there that maybe gets you away from a top handle and into a more conventional saw that's more controllable with its wider grip stance or whatever you want to call it I'll take the flack for it I don't care but top handles have there place and its up in a tree not on the ground and I dident know you were on a 2 stroke either .... Scratch that strap it to the back stuff I wouldn't wanna tie anything to the back of a 2 stroke .. brrraaaaaapppppppp .... Hey where'd my crap go sounds about right is ..... Is there any local truck dealers that caters to linesmen or such you could check out a saw scaberd for something like a bucket truck and modified it to mount on your bike add a few straps to secure it from bouncing and away you go ??? Take whatever saw you want not one specific saw its not like your really going to be riding balls out with a chainsaw strap on are you ??
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Looking at your picture the trees snapped off 20 feet or so up is similar to a tornado there was around here a few years ago. Kind of touched down east of Springfield Ma wiping out perhaps a half to three quarters mile wide swath touching down and not for maybe 40 miles to the east. Since the canopy or whatever you call the high stuff that takes most of the sun is essentially missing stuff like wild rose and bind weed in a few years might be kind of problematic. I actually cleared a few miles of trail after that with the four stroke Stihl pole saw walking. No one will be telling you to lock the chain brake before you move your feet with one of those things.
It is also possible to wrap the bar of a "normal approx 50cc" saw with a towel or similar and sit on that. I never did that beyond owned property and not for trail use but before I found out about top handle saws that worked out ok.
It is also possible to wrap the bar of a "normal approx 50cc" saw with a towel or similar and sit on that. I never did that beyond owned property and not for trail use but before I found out about top handle saws that worked out ok.
Locust Cutter
Sawing for Sanity
I'd suggest to find a saw that fits and feels good to you and buy it. Then, get as much practice near the house as you can before going out into the wilderness. Top handles tend to evoke one of 3 reactions:
1. That's cute now buy a real saw.
2. they ONLY belong in the tree, NEVER use them on the ground.
3. They're one of the handiest inventions ever and while being a bit more dangerous than conventional rear handle, can also be a lot handier when doing a lot of repetitious, technical work (ie canopy clearing).
I'm a believer in option 3 and will soon have either an Echo 355T or a MS201T-CM. Once I buy it I predict that my MS261 will see a lot less run time as its a lot bulkier and taxing for technical disassembly of smaller sticks. I've used a few different top handles over 20+ years f running saws and am sold on them for tight quarters work. However as mentioned above, they are NOT forgiving and the wight/moment arm is towards the back of the saw which means you have to have stronger muscles to control kickback than you would need for the same saw in a rear handle format.
If you're going to go rear-handle, find a nice used 026/MS260 pro on here or a Husky 346xp or 353. Any of those outfitted with a 7 pin rim and .325 chain will do everything you want to do without being unduly heavy. The Dolmar 5100s is a fantastic saw, but much like the MS261 is a bit heavy for a 50cc saw (although they both pull more like a 60cc saw).
If you are cutting 12 to 18" trees mostly, most the little saws mentioned will be struggling to get it done without spending a lot of extra time. You're talking 6o to 70 cc saws to work up wood that size and be time efficient, but understandably a compromise for your carry is needed. I'd be using my 025 with a 14 or 16" bar and picco duro carbide or a good semi chisel chain. 025 is near the same as an ms250 and they just feel light and comfortable to handle and the seem to have a good power to weight ratio.
katoom400
ArboristSite Lurker
Yes, I think you are correct that a larger rear handle saw will be better suited to the storm cleanup. as you mentioned, the compromise for me is the weight carried on the motorcycle. If I had a ATV or UTV, this would be a no brainer...026 or 028 strapped in the back. The whole reason I started looking at the 192/3 was the weight of the saw and the slick Trail Tech carrier. the compromise is a 30cc saw. That being said, the storm cleanup will be done eventually and the workload will be much less when making new trail....usually anything really large, we go over or around.
if weight was not such an issue I would seriously be looking for a slightly larger saw like the ms251 or a dolmar 421 which on paper are only 2-3lbs heavier
ktmguy-
Don't underestimate the abilities of a 193t. remember, most of the guys that are offering you their expert advice spend a few weekends per year cutting firewood and have no experience in trail maintenance. looking at the foto you provided earlier i didn't see any monster trees. most looked in the 12" diameter range. your top handle will work great. here's a vid i made this afternoon.
the only thing special about this saw is the chain which is new but sharpened by me. the saw still has its cat converter. oh, by the way no unfortunate sawyers were killed or maimed while making this vid with my deadly echo 360t.
Don't underestimate the abilities of a 193t. remember, most of the guys that are offering you their expert advice spend a few weekends per year cutting firewood and have no experience in trail maintenance. looking at the foto you provided earlier i didn't see any monster trees. most looked in the 12" diameter range. your top handle will work great. here's a vid i made this afternoon.
the only thing special about this saw is the chain which is new but sharpened by me. the saw still has its cat converter. oh, by the way no unfortunate sawyers were killed or maimed while making this vid with my deadly echo 360t.
KenJax Tree
Terraphobic
You had to be in a tree, there is no way you survived using that on the ground.
I love my 192T for trim jobs where my 201T is overkill.
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Locust Cutter
Sawing for Sanity
A fixed 192T would be ok. The 2 I've played with were both factory stock and didn't impress me, even in small stuff. Having used my little Homie Top handle, a T540xp and a few 200Ts, I've been spoiled. A 192 that had a muffler mod, timing advancement, re-tune and possible base gasket delete is an ENTIRELY different saw. I've seen the videos, just haven't had the opportunity to play with them. Really I'd like a 201T-CM or T540xp and a MS150T-C for light precision work. Normally I do firewood (15-40 cords/yr) but I also do some removals on the side and like to have the right tool for the job and power is useless w/out accuracy.
KenJax Tree
Terraphobic
Yeah i opened my exhaust and advanced the timing 6° and it rips for what it is.
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Locust Cutter
Sawing for Sanity
I wouldn't have a problem with that. My Dad and I go in 50/50 on saw purchases as we cut together (I'm 34) and we both ran the Husky. I like it, but think that the 201T has better torque and balance than the husky and when neither Brad Nor Randy want to touch another one, that tells me something.
You had to be in a tree, there is no way you survived using that on the ground.
I love my 192T for trim jobs where my 201T is overkill.
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i thought about putting on my harness and throwing a flip line over that round, just to play it safe...
katoom400
ArboristSite Lurker
well yesterday I ordered the Trail Tech mount, so now I'm committed to a 192/3. trying to find a 192 used, but they seem go for almost $300 used...you can find one for ~ $200 in pretty beat up shape..... is there any reason I would want to pay this much for the 192t when I can get a 193t for $339 new?
the differences I know of on the 193 are the lack of easy start feature and the "strato" engine...whatever that means...
the differences I know of on the 193 are the lack of easy start feature and the "strato" engine...whatever that means...
"strato" means stratified charge. it's a method for injecting clean, fresh air into the cylinder, in front of the fuel charge. it's a new technology developed by redmax and purchased by husqvarna, used in a few stihls, probably with a hefty licensing fee to husky. when i first read about it i was dubious but after owning and using a few strato saws, i'm really positive about it. besides lower exhaust emissions (raw fuel isn't blown out the muffler like most 2strokes) you may experience a broader power/torque band and significantly less fuel consumption. the mechanism for this is not exotic, just a second throttle valve, below or above the carb to control fresh air, and strato ports below the exhaust ports in the cylinder. it does not seem to have a negative effect on performance. i think that if this technology was in the public domain, most new saws would be using it. watch for it on your ktm.
regarding the price of a 193, $339 sounds like a great deal to me. the price on echo 355t's has gone up to $450.
weedkilla
Ain't no guru of nuthin'
Don't think twice, just buy the new one unless you see a mint one second hand for $200.
Top handles fall into two categories second hand, homeowner saws that were used a dozen times and ex arb saws that are no longer reliable for professional use.
The 192 isn't a saw that is easy or cheap to refresh/rebuild. A new chain and bar, air and fuel filters, some hoses and you are at new price and the saw is still second hand.
You'll need a second chain, some filing gear, etc. the dealer might cut you a deal if you buy new.
Then when you decide it runs fine with no obvious issues you can look at modifying it.
The only other choice would be to pm brad Snelling about one that is already modified.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/introducing-the-stihl-ms193t.274926/#post-5252744
Top handles fall into two categories second hand, homeowner saws that were used a dozen times and ex arb saws that are no longer reliable for professional use.
The 192 isn't a saw that is easy or cheap to refresh/rebuild. A new chain and bar, air and fuel filters, some hoses and you are at new price and the saw is still second hand.
You'll need a second chain, some filing gear, etc. the dealer might cut you a deal if you buy new.
Then when you decide it runs fine with no obvious issues you can look at modifying it.
The only other choice would be to pm brad Snelling about one that is already modified.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/introducing-the-stihl-ms193t.274926/#post-5252744
