Stump grinding question

[jpavao1066]

Looks like a great idea! A friend of mine just gave me some heavy canvas with stakes like what they use for conservation work near wetlands. I was going to try it, just not sure if it's strong enough to hold up agains the ocasional rock or broken tooth. Going to try it out in an open area and see, if it's not I think I'll try something like what you made, sure beats paying 250 buck for the guard through sherrill tree.

 

[BC WetCoast]

I would think that canvas is strong enough to protect against a rock. Broken teeth aren't usually a problem as they usually go straight back, not fire out to the side. The problem with stakes like that is pounding the stakes into the ground. If you can make T stands for the stakes it will go together much quicker.

I have 3 sheets of 3/8 ply. Sometimes we use stand or just lean them against a shovel on the sides and then lean the front piece against the side ones.

 

[jpavao1066]

Well I gave the canvas a go and it worked great. Luckily the yard was nice soft ground and it staked in nice, but t stands will be a better idea for sure. I think I will make some plywood stands as well.

 

[Stumperjack]

C'mon Guys... plastic folding tables from Walmart. 38 bucks and they're like 3x6 and last forever and stand by themselves...

 

[BC WetCoast]

Good idea, never thought of it.

 

[Cupocoffee]

Wow! There is a lot of great advice from everyone. I retired, from a large corporation after thirty years, and never thought I would work after retirement but I accidentally got into the stump grinding business after an ice storm took out 65 trees on my property. I was mowing and weed eating around those stumps and a friend said I needed a stump grinder. I had never even heard of such a thing. I bought a small one to do my stumps and found by advertising on Craigslist that I could pick up a few extra dollars. After my first year, I realized there was enough money to justify buying a used (250 hours) Vermeer SC352 for $11,000. It was a great machine but very, very slow traveling from my trailer to a stump or stump to stump. I made a lot of money with that machine and finally decided to take the plunge to a Carlton SP7015. It paid for itself in less than a season. There are several keys that make my business successful. Always give a fair price for both your customer and yourself. Set your price and don't give your labor away. Always be professional. Show up clean, whether it is to bid a job or do a job. I always keep clean shirts folded in the back of my truck so I never show up sweaty or covered in dirt. Always show up on time. Do exactly as you tell your customers you are going to do. I have never raised my price on a customer after giving them a price. There will be times when you quote a job and the moment you quote it, you will realize immediately you underbid it. I did that last week. I bid a technical job for $600 and the moment I said "six hundred dollars", I wanted to kick myself. Don't go all in and buy a hugely expensive machine until you see if you like grinding stumps. You will see many people on this site who say they hate grinding stumps. If you don't like it, don't waste money buying more equipment. I absolutely LOVE grinding stumps. There is a lot of money to be made in a very short period of time. It helps tremendously to be able to work out of a large city. If I lived in a small town, I probably would not do it. When I bid a job, very rarely I'll have a customer say he had a bid for XXX$$$$ less. I never compete with that. I just tell the customer that was a good price. I am not in the business of trying to undercut someone else's price and, more often than not, the customer is just trying to get you to drop your price. I will never let anyone else operate my equipment. I could easily call up a guy and tell him I would pay him $30 an hour to go do a couple of jobs for me. He could care less about my machine and you can believe me, no matter how good your equipment is, it can be torn up and even worse than that, someone who isn't 100% familiar with your machine can do tremendous damage to your customers property. My operation is a one man show. Other than my equipment, I don't have overhead that many people in the tree service business have. I don't pay for buildings to store my equipment, I don't pay workers comp, I don't worry about making payroll, or have chippers and a ton of chainsaws, etc. The list goes on. I wish you the very best. I have had many tree people tell me the real money is above the ground. I simply don't want to put up with the aforementioned headaches. If I were your age, I think I would start small, see how you like it, see if there really is money in your area, and build your business. It will take you several years, if you are a super good person and do a really great job, before you will start getting referral business. Oh, one other thing, if stump grinding ever becomes your only source of income, you might starve to death in the heavy winter months.

 

[Creeker]

Excellent post CofC, spot on !

 

[jpavao1066]

Thank you very much for all the advice! This has all been very helpful, I really hope that everything works out for me. It's been a slow take off, but it's getting to be the end of the year so everyone is slowing down and the weather and daylight isn't on my side. So far I love the work, I don't think I could rely on it for a full time income, but it's perfect for on the side. I think the only real frustrating part of it is how slow my grinder travels. The cutting is slow too but Im going to go to green teeth to try and pick up even a little speed there. The travel is obnoxiously slow though. If I can justify the expense within the next few years I would really like something wireless with a faster travel speed like the carlton. But my grinder is payed for and it does ok so I'm happy for right now.

 

[stumpsgone.com]

Hi everyone, I'm a new member here and would like to ask for some insight from some other people who operate their own stump grinding business. I've read through countless threads on the subject and decided to start my own. I'm 22 years old and have my own part time stump grinding business, so naturally I'm just getting started. My father owned his own tree company and sawmill, and when I was about 18 he offered me the stump grinding side of his work. He had a Rayco 1625 sj that was in need of some work. So I rebuilt/restored it and got it going. Unfortunately, two days after the first job I did with it, my dad passed away unexpectedly. After having to sell out his business, I decided to keep the grinder and try to continue on my own. But because of the loss of my dad, I also lost what would have been my main source of work. I'm learning that it is pretty difficult to build up a steady amount of work from outside sources. What I'm asking is what other people who operate a stump grinding business did or do to keep steady work flow.
So far I have made business cards and I try to hand them out or leave them where ever I can. I have a Craigslist ad also, and I have shirts or uniforms with name, logo, and phone # that myself and my worker where to look as proffessional as possible. I'm fully insured as well. I've tried emailing local landscape companies asking if they have any interest in offering subcontract work or referrals to me, and I have no problem giving a percentage back for referrals. So far not much luck there. I recently have gotten 2 local tree companies that offered to give me any stump work, and 1 landscape company. What is the best and most proffesional way of asking other businesses to refer you? Or does anyone have better ways of obtaining work? My goal is to build enough business up to be able to upgrade from my 1625 up to a Carlton 7015, and be able to takle basically any reasonable size job around here and be productive. I live in southeastern Mass so there isn't many giant sized trees, but some are a bit much for my little 1625. I just can't justify the expense of the bigger machine if I haven't established the work for it yet. Any input would be much appreciated, and sorry for such a long post.

I just started a stump grinding business a few years ago, so I know how hard it is to build the business. I would recommend trying to spend as little as possible advertising. You are just giving away money. That being said, you need to get your name out there. I built a website (friend did it for me). stumpsgone.com I then subscribed to yext witch gets you on every site imaginable. The idea being you need to get to the first page on google search. My wife and I both asked everyone we new on facebook etc to please go and check out our site to help us get the number of hits up (moves you up on google). I then bought some adds on google to keep me on the first page. I usually only do it in the winter when its cheap and the Spring when its busy. I then bought some cheap yard signs that my wife and I post on telephone poles or business highway sign posts so people can find me. I have been able to hook up with a few arborists but that is only a small piece of the business. I lettered my truck and had a sign made for the tailgate on my trailer so you can call me if you are behind me. So in three years I have built my business up to over 50k gross a year but that's a long way from making a living. It is however, a great second job!!!

I am just upgrading to a 7015 wheeled grinder, I am not buying trx as I think it will really tear up lawns and the wheeled I think is less likely. I have a 44hp 4012 with less than 500 hours that I plan to sell. It is a great machine, but I really want to get to the 7015. I would love to hear what everyone thinks about wheeled vs. trx on lawns?

Hope this helps!
Don
stumpsgone.com

 

[BC WetCoast]

Thank you very much for all the advice! This has all been very helpful, I really hope that everything works out for me. It's been a slow take off, but it's getting to be the end of the year so everyone is slowing down and the weather and daylight isn't on my side. So far I love the work, I don't think I could rely on it for a full time income, but it's perfect for on the side. I think the only real frustrating part of it is how slow my grinder travels. The cutting is slow too but Im going to go to green teeth to try and pick up even a little speed there. The travel is obnoxiously slow though. If I can justify the expense within the next few years I would really like something wireless with a faster travel speed like the carlton. But my grinder is payed for and it does ok so I'm happy for right now.

The slow travel speed is really only an issue if you are paying an employee to grind or you have so much work you could do another 2 stumps a day. If you are only doing a couple of stumps a day and then sitting the rest of the day, then the slow speed is just an irritant, it's not really costing you money.

 

[CalTreeEquip]

Ok thank you, I will have to look into it a little more. I am currently running the old 1/2" square style teeth with the pockets and the adjustment gauge. Kind of a PITA to try and swap out teeth fast on a job if you break one. Plus they seem to really throw the grindings everywhere, which slows down my clean up big time. I would love to try anything else at this point, and the greenwheel sounds nice, I just have to do some figuring to justify the $1300 vs 400 for a set of teeth for my wheel. But like you said for the long run I won't be buying and sharpening so many teeth which would be a big plus.

You don't have to do the whole Green Wheel, just convert to Green Teeth. Should cost you about $400 for a full setup on a small machine. The old finger teeth are nothing but a waste of time.

 

[CalTreeEquip]

I just started a stump grinding business a few years ago, so I know how hard it is to build the business. I would recommend trying to spend as little as possible advertising. You are just giving away money. That being said, you need to get your name out there. I built a website (friend did it for me). stumpsgone.com I then subscribed to yext witch gets you on every site imaginable. The idea being you need to get to the first page on google search. My wife and I both asked everyone we new on facebook etc to please go and check out our site to help us get the number of hits up (moves you up on google). I then bought some adds on google to keep me on the first page. I usually only do it in the winter when its cheap and the Spring when its busy. I then bought some cheap yard signs that my wife and I post on telephone poles or business highway sign posts so people can find me. I have been able to hook up with a few arborists but that is only a small piece of the business. I lettered my truck and had a sign made for the tailgate on my trailer so you can call me if you are behind me. So in three years I have built my business up to over 50k gross a year but that's a long way from making a living. It is however, a great second job!!!

I am just upgrading to a 7015 wheeled grinder, I am not buying trx as I think it will really tear up lawns and the wheeled I think is less likely. I have a 44hp 4012 with less than 500 hours that I plan to sell. It is a great machine, but I really want to get to the 7015. I would love to hear what everyone thinks about wheeled vs. trx on lawns?

Hope this helps!
Don
stumpsgone.com

Check this out:
http://www.californiatreeequipment.com/photos/stump_grinder/04-carlton-1.html

 

[jpavao1066]

Ya I don't think I will go with the green wheel setup, seems like a lot of money, although everyone seems happy with them. I'm talking to someone with a used setup of green teeth, I'd like to give them a try and ditch my teeth.

 

[lmasontreeservice]

Get yourself a paid membership to HomeAdvisor and Angie's list I've had great results with those two company's

 

[jpavao1066]

Get yourself a paid membership to HomeAdvisor and Angie's list I've had great results with those two company's

OK will do that sounds like a good idea thanks!

 

[Topbuilder]

Hi everyone, I'm a new member here and would like to ask for some insight from some other people who operate their own stump grinding business.

"I just can't justify the expense of the bigger machine if I haven't established the work for it yet."

That is a problem. I have the same problem right now trying to move from a Super 50 to a Carlton 7015 TRX. But, your problem (IMO) is greater because the 1625 is not enough machine for someone who only grinds stumps. Not trying to offend you or other 1625 owners...
You just are not going to be taken seriously by commercial accounts unless you have the ability for higher production. I could not make it on only residential calls from my ads. You have to have commercial repeat customers to make it. To the guy who said "You can't make a living grinding stumps" , that reminds me of an old saying " Nobody goes to XYZ restaurant any more, the wait times are just too long..."
There are plenty of people doing it. They are your competition.

I have been grinding for about three years. Full time the last year or so. My recommendation for a grinder: No gas engines, 50+ HP, 4 WD, no pull behind. There allot of used machines out there right now.

My biggest customer is a fairly large tree service that does not want to own a grinder. He had about four people he called for grinding. When trying to get my foot in the door the first thing he asked after me telling him I ran a Rayco was "it's not a 1625 is it?" Most jobs he is responsible for picking up chips, he does not get paid 'till the job is complete. He needs someone who can come in and get it done. I am the only guy he calls now.

Why? I make myself available - When he calls and say can you be here at 3:00, I say yes, even if I have already have somewhere to be.
I provide a better service - He flipped the first time he saw I carried two rakes on my grinder! I rake the chips to the side and end up with the dirt back in the hole. level in most cases. His guys only have to scoop up my piles. No more sorting through a massive pile of chips, dirt and mulch.
I carry a blower - a $150 blower. You would not believe the mileage I get from that blower. When I finish cleaning up I blow off what ever I just trashed. Porches, flower beds, driveways and the street. This man knows when I go to his job he gets no customer complaints. They actually call him to say they are happy. That's a rare thing these days.

As far as clients, check out builders. I do work for several builders who have me grind the stumps on fence lines and utilities when they clear a lot. I get allot of calls for trees that die before they get the buyers moved in. Too close to slab and drives...
Landscapers! I have a couple of lawn service/landscapers that use me.

OK, I'm getting a little long here. My advice:
Start out part time. Build your business while you have another source of income.
Get a bigger machine. Imagine be able to work three times faster. If you miss a bid, much less pain.
Get commercial repeat clients.
Figure out what it takes to separate yourself from your competition. Do not resent working harder for your money than others. Be the last man standing.
Maintain your equipment religiously. Plan to keep your last machine for a back-up as you upgrade. Nothing worse than not being able to work because you are broke down waiting for parts.
You are going to bid a job that does not go your way. Make sure that customer is happy. Don't ever lose money, and a customer on the same job.

Good luck

 

[jpavao1066]

Topbuilder- thank you for the advise! I definitely understand my problem with only having the 1625 right now. Luckily most jobs I've done this year have been all on the smaller scale, with the exception of a few where the stumps were border line too big to be productive, but I still came out ahead. I agree 100% with your opinion on grinders. The gas engines are definitely lacking in the torque that these machines demand. That being said, more power the better IMO. I've looked at a couple tow behinds, but they are too limited in manuverability. It seems like most jobs I've done the tow behind would not be able to get to the stumps. I'm all for upgrading as soon as possible, I was just trying to get into the business a little before I made a $25k investment, incase I didn't see a future in it. So as far as establishing steady clients like bigger tree companies, what did you do to begin the relationship with the company? You said they called you, is that the norm or do you also offer yourself to the business instead of waiting for them to find you?
So far I really enjoy the work and I am in high hopes that it grows into a good side business for me. And I always remember what my father would always say when I worked for him, leave the job with it looking better than when we showed up. I have blowers and rakes, and really do my best to keep the property looking clean when I leave. I have not had any complaints yet, just happy customers so far.

 

[Topbuilder]

"what did you do to begin the relationship with the company? "
I used this company to remove some large trees that were growing over the top of a house I was remodeling for a client. I had a stump grinding man take care of the stumps. He arrived at the job with a little s-10 type truck and a 4x8 trailer. I would say he was in his mid 60s. I had never seen this type of grinder work. It was a 1625. He was there about 3 hours, collected his money and was on his way. He made pretty good money. I mentally filed that away. Later I researched what was available in larger horse power diesel machines. I found someone getting out of the business that was selling his machines. A RG-50 and a tow behind. Our area was in the middle of a drought, trees dying left and right. I took a chance. Put an add in the paper and learned on the job. (read lost my a$$) I adjusted and figured out what I had to do to make money at it. Later I had the same guy out on another tree removal and said BTW, here is one of my cards. If I can help you out with any grinding in the future...
He eventually tried me and we developed a relationship. If he said he would be ready for me at 1:00 I would be there at 12:00. Being a contractor myself I know Contractors like people that get it done and don't whine. I was once called to one of his jobs where the other grinder walked the job because the home owner was concerned that the stump to be ground was close to a water meter. I assured them there was no problem in about 5 minutes. I solved the problem, the tree service was able to collect his check. As an added bonus, before I finished that job three people were waiting to get my card. I worked in that subdivision for the next week.

When you get ready to move up look for a Super 50, 66 or 85. There are several on the market in that 25K range. I know I am biased but I don't think there is a better value out there. Something I wrestle with, even if the 7015 will double my production, the math does not work as long as there are good used machines at 1/3 the price. I got my super with just over 1000 hours so I'm good for a few years. I want the remote though!

Good luck!

 

[jpavao1066]

I have seen a few 50s and 85s for sale here and there, along with others. My question to you, having owned one, is do you see any big advantages/disadvantages of having a hyd drive cutter wheel vs the belt driven like the carltons? I know it eliminates the belt/bearing maintenance, but have you ever had a drive motor failure? That is basically my biggest concern with other brands like Rayco and Bandit. The belt drive is prone to belt and bearing failure, but transfers 100% power to the cutters. The hyd drive seems more costly IF something fails, and you have a chunk of power loss using hyd drive. Just curious on your opinion as an owner?
Thank you for the response, this information is all a huge help!

 

[Topbuilder]

I have seen a few 50s and 85s for sale here and there, along with others. My question to you, having owned one, is do you see any big advantages/disadvantages of having a hyd drive cutter wheel vs the belt driven like the carltons? I know it eliminates the belt/bearing maintenance, but have you ever had a drive motor failure? That is basically my biggest concern with other brands like Rayco and Bandit. The belt drive is prone to belt and bearing failure, but transfers 100% power to the cutters. The hyd drive seems more costly IF something fails, and you have a chunk of power loss using hyd drive. Just curious on your opinion as an owner?
Thank you for the response, this information is all a huge help!

Well, as they say, you don't know what you don't know.
I have never run a carlton. I have read every written word/video on them. (really) From what I have read... the 7015 is close to twice the machine the super 50/66 is at the same horse power. My 1642 has the same power plant as the RG-50. I do not notice much of a upgrade in power going from hyd drive to direct/belt drive on the 1642. The 50 will beat the 1642 because of other factors even with less hp to the cutting wheel.
Never had any major problems with hydraulics or pumps. You will have belt/bearing wear/maintenance with both systems. There are other things I do not like about the 50 vs the super which is one of the reasons I would say the super is the minimum you should seek. More on that later if you like.