Think you've rigged big wood? Try this on for size......

[DR. P. Proteus]

Proteus, You are one good reason why I don't bother with this site much anymore. There is little doubt that I was pulling off rad schite while you were still in diapers..or hell, conceived, for all I know or care.

Yawn..... You have no idea what I pay Robert.... and Pat has his own co, so he gets plenty. plus, we'll end up at somewhere close to $85/manhr....acceptable.

I think you might think about locking yourself in.......

I know you pay more than 15, its mostly when I heard you say something about underbidding the job I had some sort of agonizing flashback and reacted badly. I apologize. I had no call to treat you like an ordinary chump. And I don't even know what the chopped cheese thing was about, I'll ask my therapist. It was scary to watch this video and hear about the problems.

It sounds like you were over 3K just for the firs without the sale of the logs or stumps which isn't so bad, actually sounds on target. I don't know why you have to go around saying you underbid it, I think that is where the negativity stemmed from.

 

[rbtree]

Apology accepted. It was underbid. Another good company bid about $900 more, in total, including the stumps. The other reason why I decided to take a chance on rigging those four logs was to make enough for a log truck load. And, I hate cutting firewood, especially when it is that large, or if there is a possibility for salvaging the timber.

 

[hseII]

Apology accepted. It was underbid. Another good company bid about $900 more, in total, including the stumps. The other reason why I decided to take a chance on rigging those four logs was to make enough for a log truck load. And, I hate cutting firewood, especially when it is that large, or if there is a possibility for salvaging the timber.

After doing that, successfully, I might add, what specifics on equipment & technique would you adjust were you to have the same job again?

I really like my big porta wrap, normally with a stout rigging pulley, but I'm looking into this:


It's much easier to handle in longer lengths, when the terrain allows.

 

[rbtree]

hsell, I've gone over that, if not here, in the TH and on FB..... and I had a call at 8:30 to go look at a tree fallen across a drive and onto service wires... while my groundie was over and we were barbecuing wild caught Alaska sockeye, corn and asparagus, with real whole grain rice and IPA's or Fat Tire Ale........told them I HAD to eat first... well we did, plumb forgot for two hours til she called... and I rushed over there pronto. The new client is a hot Russian woman and her equally hot mom... at least what flashlight revealed....So, I gotta hit the sack and fantasize about a "trade"

That's my friend Dan Holliday, eloquently presenting double block rigging of and on a single spar. It's essentially "double whip tackle" technique, but utilizing a single stem. It is still negative rigging, and I would never negative rig loads such as we did in any fashion....

Reg Coates also has neg rigged but with twin, separate rigging systems, set opposite sides of the face cut, and controlled with his slick Stein RC 3001 double bollard lowering device. He has done loads approaching the weights of our loads, but shorter, so the center of mass of the loads haven't travelled as far, so have built less kinetic energy in their free fall before coming into the rigging.

 

[hseII]

I've got some big pine to take down in the next few months: I've done some tree rigging, but nothing this large.

These Pines are tall, big, and beautiful.

Too tall to fell due to obstacles. They are close enough to use one as the spare tree as you did.

The LO needs them gone for his reasons, but I cannot bear to just chunk them down.

I will be erring on the side of caution, but it would be a an absolute shame to not use the logs for lumber.

I'm debating on blocking them down to a length that would permit felling, and but was looking for possibly another safe alternative.

A crane is out of the question due to the location.

 

[hseII]

What is TH?

I don't do FB.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

After doing that, successfully, I might add, what specifics on equipment & technique would you adjust were you to have the same job again?

I really like my big porta wrap, normally with a stout rigging pulley, but I'm looking into this:


It's much easier to handle in longer lengths, when the terrain allows.

I think this double block technique is absurd. I got into a conversation with this guy, I said that I did think it was a good idea to keep smashing a block like that. He said the block didn't get smashed. If you watch the video, well, the block gets smashed... repeatedly... everytime. Is it me?

 

[Pelorus]

That double block method not my cuppa Joe either. Big waste of time setting up extra rigging for no practical benefit.
The shock loading in the video was wretched.
With a decent groundman who can properly manage a porty or Hobbs, the world is my oyster.

 

[lone wolf]

Need to fine tune your rigging and operators. Everyone was in danger at least once. Thank God the angels were with you that day. Nice job getting them ready for the mill.

I was waiting for that response. Yup.

 

[BC WetCoast]

I've got some big pine to take down in the next few months: I've done some tree rigging, but nothing this large.

These Pines are tall, big, and beautiful.

Too tall to fell due to obstacles. They are close enough to use one as the spare tree as you did.

The LO needs them gone for his reasons, but I cannot bear to just chunk them down.

I will be erring on the side of caution, but it would be a an absolute shame to not use the logs for lumber.

I'm debating on blocking them down to a length that would permit felling, and but was looking for possibly another safe alternative.

A crane is out of the question due to the location.

No room to block it down in 30' lengths?

 

[hseII]

No room to block it down in 30' lengths?

It may be possible; I will share pictures when we start.

I looked at them 2 winters ago, when I was there for major clean up after storms dropped a lot of trees on his property: I'm going off memory.

The PO was on the fence about leaving them, but has decided he wants them down now.

 

[CanopyGorilla]

I've rigged some pretty big wood, probably close to that size. Also been in some pretty stupid sketchy situations. Honestly I think a lot of stuff in that video looked like it could have been accomplished more safely. I'm not overly impressed by the balls or the skills. I wouldn't even comment if the thread title wasn't so brash and self aggrandizing.

 

[ropensaddle]

That double block method not my cuppa Joe either. Big waste of time setting up extra rigging for no practical benefit.
The shock loading in the video was wretched.
With a decent groundman who can properly manage a porty or Hobbs, the world is my oyster.

Heck I don't much care for single even, for what they are paying, I don''t care if a little sod is buggerd. I give them a bomb fee vrs rigged and they say bomb the ****

 

[rbtree]

After doing that, successfully, I might add, what specifics on equipment & technique would you adjust were you to have the same job again?

Haven't checked in here in a while and see the typical of arbsite BS..... Been swamped with trips, work, and shooting two tree climbing comps with a third coming up in four days. Just back a few days ago from Indianapolis where I shot JAMBO, which was the best and coolest tree comp ever!

What to change? Not rig the first log so high. The way it tipped into the rigging was too much shock loading for that full static line, which, though rated at 29000# tensile after the splice, is not designed for shock loading.. The rest of the picks, though progressively heavier, were well within spec due to the line angles.

Then, there was the problem with not being able to get the GRCS properly sucked into the tree.... It needed a second ratchet strap. I remedied that after the first load with the end of the rigging line.
Next, the rigging line, being stiff, would barely hold, even with 5 wraps and the self tailer in use. In retrospect, I should have borrowed Dan Kraus's Hobbs, and don't know why I didn't. It's larger bollard would have allowed for 7 wraps....

Next, I had asked Pat to bring his 5/8th lowering line for the butt hitching. Well, it was too short for the first pick, so we had to add another line... which meant we had to install a prussic and cut his line before the knot jammed in the porty. I had a 3/4 200 foot rigging line at home...and should have gone home and gotten it....While we were fixing that problem, the log was resting against the spar, and was somewhat stable, so I felt the risk of standing near it was minimal.

If you want to salvage logs from aloft on your pines, what we did is the only way to do it.... Just use the right lines of proper tensile strengths... if the loads are lighter than what we were dealing with, 5/8th and 3/4 normal double braid lines should be fine.

 

[rbtree]

I think this double block technique is absurd. I got into a conversation with this guy, I said that I did think it was a good idea to keep smashing a block like that. He said the block didn't get smashed. If you watch the video, well, the block gets smashed... repeatedly... everytime. Is it me?

It certainly did take some abuse. Though the loads were light and those DMM Impact blocks are rugged. I think that Dan ( a good friend and just married to an awesome gal) could have installed the block 10-20% off the direction of fall.....
Reg Coates' (Stein products) technique of double line blocking is better, as the basal friction device (his twin bollard RC-3001 ?) spreads the load among two bollards.

And, regarding your other comment stating that you don't see the advantage of the technique, note that, except for the load at the portawrap, all other components of the rigging are subjected to half the dynamic loading. Google "double whip tackle" for some explanations....

 

[JeffGu]

Google "double whip tackle" for some explanations...

But, if you follow all those B&D and S&M site links... no need to report back on what you learned. You might derail the thread.

 

[treebilly]

Roger I know this thread was posted a while ago, but don't fret the guys worrying about beating a block up. I personally wouldn't have done it that big with out a crane but you saved that cost. What's a new block cost? Less than a crane for the day I'll bet. Even though a lot of guys don't agree with how you do things, I'll give you respect for being an old school bad ass.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

It certainly did take some abuse. Though the loads were light and those DMM Impact blocks are rugged. I think that Dan ( a good friend and just married to an awesome gal) could have installed the block 10-20% off the direction of fall.....
Reg Coates' (Stein products) technique of double line blocking is better, as the basal friction device (his twin bollard RC-3001 ?) spreads the load among two bollards.

And, regarding your other comment stating that you don't see the advantage of the technique, note that, except for the load at the portawrap, all other components of the rigging are subjected to half the dynamic loading. Google "double whip tackle" for some explanations....

Never liked Reg's double set up either. Just try to find two guy capable to run it perfectly each time, that'll cost. Plus I wonder if they would secretly hate it because its to much work to get all the knots undone.

With all regards I do not see how using these two small set-ups could in any way be better than using one big rigging set-up. I mean if whatever you are rigging is to much for that rigging then you might want to think about what its attached to.

I can see using Reg's technique in very large conifers using real big ropes but each guy would really have to work together on getting the lines equal. that would be nice.

Man, I worked at this takedown outfit, there was a one legged old man could lower every thing with a 16 strand and fixed bollard... those were old too.


Maybe I am just not the type to buy a block to smash it, maybe I could learn, maybe you could help, maybe you could buy me a block, maybe make it two?

I also see potential for the blocks colliding together and possible rope damage.

 

[Reg]

Never liked Reg's double set up either. Just try to find two guy capable to run it perfectly each time, that'll cost. Plus I wonder if they would secretly hate it because its to much work to get all the knots undone.

With all regards I do not see how using these two small set-ups could in any way be better than using one big rigging set-up. I mean if whatever you are rigging is to much for that rigging then you might want to think about what its attached to.

I can see using Reg's technique in very large conifers using real big ropes but each guy would really have to work together on getting the lines equal. that would be nice.

Man, I worked at this takedown outfit, there was a one legged old man could lower every thing with a 16 strand and fixed bollard... those were old too.


Maybe I am just not the type to buy a block to smash it, maybe I could learn, maybe you could help, maybe you could buy me a block, maybe make it two?

I also see potential for the blocks colliding together and possible rope damage.

Dano

The two lines run through the twin bollards and are then joined by an aditional single line held by the groundworker. So the ground guy just holds one line that controls and keeps the two lines running simoulaneous.....you don't need two guys. Probably sounds complicated, but it isn't. I don't like it much either, but sometimes you might need to stop a huge piece suddenly. That's when its useful.

Never tried that double block thing in the video either. Doesn't really appeal.

 

[hseII]

I've got ISC 3/4" & 5/8" blue blocks, but I wonder if they would withstand the forces of 24" dia Bull Pine @ 20' long?

Probably not, even with my 5/8" Stable Braid.