Tuning a saw for milling

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BigOakAdot

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Hey guys,
I am new to milling and have read multiple posts about tuning a saw specifically for milling.

I'm pretty much clueless when it comes to tuning in general. I know a lot of people do it by sound, but I have no idea what to listen for.

All I basically know is it has to do with adjusting the screws, that's it. Can anyone recommend how to get started on learning to tune a saw? Maybe a YouTube tutorial or something?

Thanks guys.

BOA
 
I've been tuning by ear, but brown santa is bringing my tach today.

You want the saw a little bogged down (too much fuel) milling because it keeps the piston from getting as hot as it would if you tuned it to a clean burn. Just not so rich that the saw labors in the cut.
 
We noobs need to know how to deal with the barriers to needle adjustment (without screwing-up the needle) that must be done before ya try to go outside the "factory" settings -- as "too rich" (to have cooling via fuel) is prolly too-polluting for our Air Resources Board. I have toasted two top ends; maybe 'cause I did not do the tuning correctly? It is still mystery to me.
 
We have EPA induced "limiters" here too. I call removing them "jailbreaking" because the process isn't that different than throwing out the firmware on a mobile phone who's maker doesn't want you messing with it's parameters either.

At any rate - the limiters are easily defeated on every saw I've encountered. Some require pulling the needle out, and some come off the outside of the needle without needing to remove them.

Once the limiters are removed, your carb needs to be set to the "base line" (factory default) settings, and that's 1-1/4 turn from lightly seated (screwed all the way in). From this initial setting, you then start the saw and begin dialing it in.

There's some threads in the chainsaw section on how to tune your saw, so I'll suggest you look at those rather than me reciting it.
 
I started by learning how to do a regular time using the service manual.

While the enriching of a the fuel air mix for milling can be done by ear it's easier to use a tacho and simply drop the revs by around 500 rpm the
 
I used to be the 'saw guy' on a spacing crew for a few years. One of the first things I did for the new guys, with there new saws,was to take away there tuning driver. Of course one year a new guy got ahold of a tuning screwdriver and proceeded to '''tune''' 4 saws, needless to say he had to buy 4 new saws.
All I can say to the new saw people is to read your manual, tune only what is called for. Or better yet take your saw into the shop and talk to the saw guy, Most of the saw shop guys I know would be willing to spend ten minutes showing you how its done.
But once your jets are set you should leave well enough alone.
 
What about when there's a 50F temp change between when the saw was tuned last?

Set it and forget it is how folks burn up saws here in MN. Tune it in the spring, run it all summer too rich, then lean death come January.
 
I tune year round....remember the colder the weather the leaner the saw is..the factory setting on my ms460 was way lean when the weather cooled off considerably.. I use a tach for a baseline and go by ear from there,another thing is to run a good oil 32:1...
 
Milling is torture on saws. You want a quality synthetic at 40:1 or more, and you want it to just clean up (stop 4-stroking) under working load. For typical use, I tune to quit 4 stroking under light pressure
 
It was 15F today and my 357xp wouldn't stay running at idle cold until I bumped up the L jet. That was last ran in my 55F shop.

Winter here - I have a 1/8" flat screw driver in the same pocket with my scrench.

The Mrs. confirmed my tach arrived today. Too bad it's 110 miles south.
 
I appreciate all the replies. I gotta say I'm still pretty lost, and it sounds as if anyone who tries tuning a saw who is a noob (like myself) they end up burning her up.

My buddy works for a tree care company, I'm gonna see if he knows anyone who could give me a hand. If anyone is in the Philly area and has some free time let me know.
 
I'm a little hard of hearing and it took me a while. I started videoing myself so I could hear it run. Eventually I could hear the 2 stoking noise. I think part of the reason it took me so long was the 066 I was trying to tune had an air leak or something. I couldn't make that thing 2 stroke to save my soul. Eventually it died and I got the 076. I think around that time I came across Brads video. Now I can hear the difference. It saved my 044 this summer. I was cutting and it leaned right out. I shut it down right away and found out the fuel filter was clogged.

Here is Brad Thread on tuning. http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/video-how-to-tune-a-chainsaw.113538/
 
I'm pretty new to tuning a saw for milling, too, and I didn't get it, either.

$100 bucks buys a wireless tachometer, and it sure helped verify idle and wide open throttle for me. I'm at best a reluctant mechanic, but I was happy to learn that what my ear is used to follows the officially recommended RPMs pretty well. I bought a Fast-Tac and it seems to work well, from these guys: http://www.manddsmallengine.com/tinytach/fast.html

I followed Madsen's advice as best as I could, plus talking to others locally.

Here's a link to recommended RPMs.

And be sure to remember what BobL said, drop it down 500 RPM for milling.

If you haven't tuned yet, it might be wise to keep track of where your saw started. Just count how many turns in (ie. clock-wise/rightsy-tightsy) each of your three screws will go before bottoming out. Turn back to to the original setting. This might be easier the first time with cowlings off, just looking at the screws with your driver handy.

I can't vouch for the advice, but a number of older guys have mentioned to me that wide open throttle (WOT) is usually best set at about 1 1/2 turns out. This seems to match my 360 and 660 right on, but then you want to turn it down a little for milling. Use this advice at your own risk, because I suspect it may have been mostly true with old saws but not always so today...

Best of luck!
 
My echo's carb is way off from my husky/jonny's. I think it's over 4 turns out on the low jet. If I have the high set at 2 turns out it'll hit 14,600 when it's supposed to max at 11-13k. Of course it's super lean when it revs that high, and falls flat on it's face in a cut, so I kept fattening it up until it stayed under 13k and then put it in wood to find it got it's balls back.

Getting a tach was a good move for me. I'm sure my saws will be happier as well.
 
Maybe, I'm wrong but tuning isn't much of a science, just gotta pay attention. I'm still somewhat new to saws, but tuned model gasoline engines $600 per engine and up using a tach and ear, along with lawn equipment. If you get a good throttle response and it runs properly most often you're near a good tune. Ex, no stumbling under load on high end and a proper "note" of the 2 stroke whine when on high end and loaded. Just load the saw and pull out of wood, it should 4 cycle sing to you. I tune until it just starts to 2 cycle sing under a standard load. Mind you under a slight load, soft woods smaller log it may not fully 2 cycle and I think that's fine on occasional use or you may be running slight bit rich and have some carbon.

Like mentioned 500 rpm back off equals just a slight richening. When I tuned my model aircraft engines, I'd tune it for peak on ground and than richen just a tad on rich side. Under load and in flight, the engine tends to lean out to a rich of peak in air for optimal tune. Sort of like putting into wood and pulling out the saw.

I run 32:1 myself, others like Bill run 50:1 with good results. I don't have issues with the exhaust at 32:1, some oils smoke more than others and I try to keep my head away from it and use wind to blow it away from me.
Getting on the second yr with my saw and no problems. I think guys have problems when they try to squeeze every last drop of power out of an engine. You're not gaining much, just start off with big enough to begin with. Tuning is important, but so is keeping inlet air clean and temps in check. Get to know the saw, how hot does it usually run and pay attention to it and the noises it makes. Check your plug, one indication of proper tune.

Figured to chime in, hoping to help others, and or to keep thread alive if needed. When I bought my saw, owners son said 50:1 be fine for milling these stihls were designed to run 70:1 or something like that. I asked the owner if he sold tachs and got a look like, oh no we've got one of those nerdy techy guys here, haha. So never did buy a tach and don't plan too. I just find I don't need one. I've played a bit leaning bit more, richening a bit more and can't really find much differance in cutting speed. Slight rich may mean cleaning out carbon, but doubt it'll kill saw and regardless of tune you're sucking in exhaust to you're lungs. Why I like a breeze going. Every time I mill though I get into a cut and pull back to hear the note change, no change either to rich or too lean. Works for me and a no brainer. Also, if you can let it idle 30 sec or so and than gun it and have a good response with no dying than it's not too rich at idle.

I have to laugh, my gf's dad a firewood cutter and logger along with another guy into saws and guy stuff (LOL) had no idea what I meant by 2 cycling or 4 cycling in a cut. I had to show them and describe the sound, took them a bit to pick up on it as my saw doesn't go crazy with the 2 cycling nor the 4 cycling, happy medium of both. when engines are too lean, you'd think they'd have lack of power and people would know. IDK, LOL!

Hope this helps guys! Everyone has good info, incase anyone needed more or for any stumblers upon this thread.
 
Oh, and i've never tuned a 4 stroke engine. They're pretty much set it and forget it. I slightly re adjust my tune in winter or summer. Remember small adjustments, just till you feel it move, 1/8 turn or less is all usually needed. I think guys get in trouble here.

As far as smelly exhaust, I'm going band mill soon as I can and keeping CS mill for slabs
 
Pete,
Thanks a lot for the detailed response. I think I'm understanding what needs to be done but not certain of the different sounds. I remember watching the video above and getting a feel for the difference in sound from 2-stroke and 4-stroke a month or two ago. Won't know for sure until I do it in person.

I've taken a break from milling for the winter and will give tuning a try in early spring. Thanks again.

BOA
 
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