ArboristSite.com Sponsors
 
 


"Tuning in the wood" -- define

Discussion in 'Chainsaw' started by K9-Handler, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. K9-Handler

    K9-Handler ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Western Connecticut
    I've seen several posts regarding tuning a mildly modded saw, and inevitably someone will say you have to "tune in the wood" -- or tune while under load.

    Just how is this accomplished? I have this mental picture of someone holding the back handle of a saw, buried in oak, with the left hand while trying to adjust the carb "H" needle with a tiny screw driver in the other hand. This can't be right...:dizzy:

    Do you cut a cookie and time it, move the needle, cut another cookie, move the needle, cut a cookie,...etc.? That could take ages, and be influenced by the wood getting smaller, or drier, or...

    Please don't tell me to do a search -- I did and ended up with 22 PAGES of posts, and after wading through dozens and dozens of them I couldn't find anything appropriate.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    -Thanks.
     
  2. joesawer

    joesawer Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,429
    Likes Received:
    320
    Location:
    Crestline Ca
    Just how is this accomplished? I have this mental picture of someone holding the back handle of a saw, buried in oak, with the left hand while trying to adjust the carb "H" needle with a tiny screw driver in the other hand. This can't be right...:dizzy:

    It is how I do it. Well almost, usually hold the handle and work throttle with right hand.
    If you are not comfortable with it, by all means don't do it.
     
  3. willsaw4beer

    willsaw4beer Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    Southern Finger Lakes Region of NY
    The saw should 4 stroke not under load and 2 stroke in the wood.
     
  4. blsnelling

    blsnelling Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2006
    Messages:
    44,488
    Likes Received:
    10,205
    Location:
    Franklin, OH
    That's only your starting point. If you're really after perfect tuning, you need to make timed cuts, make a very small adjustment, and make more timed cuts. It is perfectly tuned where it makes the fastest cut. Change your setup, cutting conditions, and weather, and it all goes out the window. When I'm done finding the fastest setting, I'll note that RPM so that I can retune to that same RPM in any weather conditions.
     
  5. Soilarch

    Soilarch ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    West KY, and So. IL
    blsnelling's way is the only way I would bother with this (Taking notes on weather...temp and humidity...and altitude)

    I don't shoot for the 4-stroking out of wood, smooth in wood.

    I don't feel like spending 20 minutes to "fine-tune" my saw every time the weather changes...which seems like every day this time of year.

    And I don't have a tachometer...YET! lol
     
  6. blsnelling

    blsnelling Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2006
    Messages:
    44,488
    Likes Received:
    10,205
    Location:
    Franklin, OH
    I might add that I usually just tune by ear now. I learned from this kind of testing what a saw sounds like when tuned for best performance and I just tune by ear 99% of the time. Once you develop an ear for it, you can keep an ear on your tune all day long when out working. And believe, it will change throughout the day as temp and humidity changes. You'd be surprised how much. The key to not going to lean is to make sure you still have a touch of 4-stroke when pulling the saw directly out of the cut, leaving it at WOT. This is when the saw will be at its leanest and hottest. If you're tuning to a specific RPM with a tach, that's also when you want to check it.
     
  7. ShoerFast

    ShoerFast Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    19,818
    Likes Received:
    5,718
    Location:
    Morrison Colorado, at the base of the Rockies
    A really long straight clean log is a must. Letting the saw do the cutting is better, no operator input, that means the chain needs to have a good grind on it and the DG's match the wood.

    Just for a say, say 1 1/4 turns out with the 'H' , burbles slightely in a cut and it took 17 seconds.

    Turn the 'H' in like 5 minutes worth or like a 1/16th of a turn, say that new setting took 16 seconds to cut a cookie.

    Keep making adjustments a little at a time, there will be a point where you did not get a gain, if just a slight tad leaner took longer to cut, you found your danger zone and go back to the fat side of your fastest cut again.

    Alternative method....

    Find a spot where the saw burbles out of a cut but clears in the cut, try a cut right there, note the time Try one fatter, note the time, go past your first setting and try one the same amount leaner, note the time. Near perfect, the saw dose not change much.

    You might want to be a tad, or a second slower then 'best' or fastest, but it would be slightly safer and the saw will last longer, in theory.

    When you find that sweet-spot, run it on tach to tune it again for that spot,,,,and as mentioned, always keep an ear on it and you will master your saw.

    Last thing I would like to add, it is not rocket science, fatter is just plain better. When you get the right ear or feel for it, keeping your chain sharp(er) with a 'close' tune, will beat the best tuner any time any day.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
  8. West Texas

    West Texas AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    111
    Location:
    Fort Davis
    Ideally, I tune it so there is some 4 cycle or bubble sound at WOT, then I put it in the wood at WOT and it should smooth out to a nice sound and cut like a knife in hot butter. However, there are those unique conditions, wood, weather, etc. that will cause me to not like the 'in wood' performance, and I'll tweak the "H" jet 1/8 turn at a time until it does what I think it should do.

    As a general rule of thumb, tune the "L" jet for easy starting and tune the "H" jet for performance in the wood.

    I cut at elevations between 5400' at home to 7000' + up on the Preserve. So I have to make minor adjustments to both jets whenever I make a significant change in elevation too.

    Just remember we are playing with a fuel and air combo for best torque. Don't be afraid to experiment. :cheers:
     
  9. blsnelling

    blsnelling Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2006
    Messages:
    44,488
    Likes Received:
    10,205
    Location:
    Franklin, OH
    There is a very wide range of WOT RPMs that will clean out in the wood. Also, when you get close to the optimal setting, even 1/32 of a turn can make a big difference in WOT RPMs. There's often a real fine line there were the RPMs just jump and goes too lean.
     
  10. Lakeside53

    Lakeside53 Stihl Wrenching

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Messages:
    24,807
    Likes Received:
    1,662
    Location:
    Woodinville, WA
    1/32 turn? lolol

    I tuned my saws sometime the past two years... I think... and I give a damn day to day. I know if they sound about right, and "about right" is good enough... Mine are most certainly richer then "perfection", but that's how I like to run them.

    In the time you guys spend tunings saws all year, I can have my wood done and beer flowing.:greenchainsaw:
     
    ShoerFast likes this.
  11. Bowtie

    Bowtie Gearhead

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,653
    Likes Received:
    850
    Location:
    Central Kansas
    You are a grouchy Ole' Kiwi, huh? :cheers:
     
  12. blsnelling

    blsnelling Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2006
    Messages:
    44,488
    Likes Received:
    10,205
    Location:
    Franklin, OH
    That's why I call myself a tweaker. I actually enjoy it. And trust me, you won't get done before I do:cheers:
     
  13. Paul001

    Paul001 Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    132
    Location:
    NJ
    Or another who's spent to damn much time in the woods and has figured out whats the important part of the day...

    Going home and having a beer :)
     
  14. Bowtie

    Bowtie Gearhead

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,653
    Likes Received:
    850
    Location:
    Central Kansas
    I dont give Andy much hell, but its fun every so often...
    Andy is a great guy to talk to and deal with!
     
  15. Paul001

    Paul001 Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    132
    Location:
    NJ
    Well he is a cranky ole bastage :)
     
  16. Soilarch

    Soilarch ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    West KY, and So. IL
    I think this ole boy and me would get along just fine!!! lol

    Although "tweaking" means something different to my generation (It involves Hashish):monkey:


    Practicality and Labor-of-Loves rarely share the same space.
    :cheers:
     
  17. blsnelling

    blsnelling Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2006
    Messages:
    44,488
    Likes Received:
    10,205
    Location:
    Franklin, OH
    Not that kind of "tweaking", lol.
     
  18. Bowtie

    Bowtie Gearhead

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,653
    Likes Received:
    850
    Location:
    Central Kansas
    He builds a damn fine runnin saw, I know that much!
     
  19. blsnelling

    blsnelling Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2006
    Messages:
    44,488
    Likes Received:
    10,205
    Location:
    Franklin, OH
    No doubt about that.
     
  20. Soilarch

    Soilarch ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    West KY, and So. IL
    ....and I just realized my last post may have made me sound like I was proud to be pothead...

    ...um.... not the case. I can actually say I've never touched the stuff.

    My pocketknives shave

    I have actually shaved with my hunting knives

    Cardboard makes one of the best strops you can buy...err, "find"

    Electric guitars and basses that don't have the intonation properly set are a big pet-peave of mine

    Traditional archery ('nuff said')

    I have ballistic printouts for my handloaded ammunition...it goes with me if I'm hunting with a centerfire on a 3x5 postcard. (Thinking your scope is 1.5 inches above bore when it's actually 1.0 inch above bore DOES make a difference!)

    I happen to know it takes about 25 rounds for my 10/22 to start shooting good groups again after I clean the barrel. (I've cleaned the barrel twice in 11 years...apparently rimfires LIKE being dirty.)

    My Shotgun with a rifled slug barrel will shoot good for 3-5 rounds...then it MUST be cleaned...and cleaned WELL.

    My Ruger SBH has ZERO creep in the trigger and breaks at about 2lbs. Thanks to yours truely. I don't let others shoot it unless I've had them "feel" what I've talking about with it unloaded...and then I don't take my eyes off them. 2lbs is a very very light trigger.


    These are the tweakings I enjoy:cheers:
     

Share This Page