Tying a closed friction hitch with your tail

[g19fanatic]

I'm purely a rec climber hence why this post is in this section vs another one.

I'm also a a heavier climber (>310 lbs). When I first started off, I wanted to be able to climb using the minimal amount of safe gear which basically meant a harness and rope (using the tail to tie a blakes hitch). It didn't matter what configuration i tied the blakes in, it always seized with my weight.

I didn't let this stop me and went on to purchase some beeline and tried out several different closed hitches (distel, swabash, micheaon, VT, knut, icicle). I finally settled on the icicle and have been happy since.

Though after a while, it started to bother me that I couldn't still just climb using the end of my rope (as the icicle hitch was a closed hitch). One day i was messing around with some rope and tried a configuration that i was surprised I didn't try before. I tied my hitch onto the rope and finished it off with a yosemite bowline. This essentially allowed me to climb with a closed hitch and use the tail end of the rope.

At first I was concerned about using the same diameter rope for my hitch as the climbing line, but atleast for me this hasn't been an issue.

I've included two images that show you what I am describing. One with the tail of my rope and another one with a split tail.
View attachment 230234
View attachment 230235

Has anyone else ever tried something like this? I've been using this method ever since I first tried it and it works great for my setup (Arbor-plex and being a heavy climber).

 

[VA-Sawyer]

I played around with the e2e version of your knot the other evening. I'm about 230 in gear, and found the knot wanted to tighten a lot after about 5 or 6 releases, and was not very smooth. I was using ICE on PI climb line. Did not try the second version so don't know if the PI would work better against itself.
Rick

 

[Bomber]

The problem with using the end of your climbing line for a friction hitch is that after a while the tail of your rope will wear out at the friction points. Then you have to cut the ends off of your climbing line making it shorter. The best thing about the split tail system is that you can replace your friction hitch line at a small cost and always maintain the maximum length of your rope. The split tail is also much easier to change your tie in points up in a tree since you dont have to untie your friction hitch.

 

[g19fanatic]

I played around with the e2e version of your knot the other evening. I'm about 230 in gear, and found the knot wanted to tighten a lot after about 5 or 6 releases, and was not very smooth. I was using ICE on PI climb line. Did not try the second version so don't know if the PI would work better against itself.
Rick

The icicle hitch has been very good for my setup. That being said, what is your normal e2e hitch? From what I've tried and have gleemed from other people's responses, different rope combinations will work better with different hitches. For my weight on Arbor-plex with Bee-line, the icicle hitch worked well for me.

I'd be interested to hear how the PI works against itself using my method of tying a yosemite bowline to complete the e2e.

 

[g19fanatic]

The problem with using the end of your climbing line for a friction hitch is that after a while the tail of your rope will wear out at the friction points. Then you have to cut the ends off of your climbing line making it shorter. The best thing about the split tail system is that you can replace your friction hitch line at a small cost and always maintain the maximum length of your rope. The split tail is also much easier to change your tie in points up in a tree since you dont have to untie your friction hitch.

Completely agree with all of the reasons to use a split tail.
Personally as I only climb recreationally, re-tying my friction hitch is part of the fun. I could see where it is just time wasted on the job...

My post wasn't meant to come off as a 'tail of your rope' vs 'split tail' discussion. Just wanted to put out there that there are more hitch options to try (any e2e...) than just a blake's hitch or tautline if those do not work for you and your rope configuration.

 

[timmcat]

I started using the split tail 10 ish years ago and never looked back, its just so much easier when ascending through a brushy tree to be able to click out and click in instead of untying and retying. Recently I had a problem keeping my blakes hitch from sliding down when bearing weight, but after seeing a few pictures I realized I was short a couple of wraps.

 

[g19fanatic]

I started using the split tail 10 ish years ago and never looked back, its just so much easier when ascending through a brushy tree to be able to click out and click in instead of untying and retying.

Definitely! I mostly love not worrying about 'completely' isolating your limb. Such benefits of using split tails!

But don't rule out a traditional climb for a great workout! Now even those whose blake's hitches will seize up will be able to do a traditional with their e2e of choice

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

climbing

For good rope climbing info. The book On Rope has good info for several climbing styles. For less effort climbing move toward SRT climbing.

 

[g19fanatic]

For good rope climbing info. The book On Rope has good info for several climbing styles. For less effort climbing move toward SRT climbing.

Saw,
Thanks for the info but apparently you missed the whole point of this thread. I'm not touting DRT style vs SRT style. I'm simply providing one more solution, one that I haven't seen anyone else ever suggest...

Always good to have a few more things in your bag of tricks. This will method allow someone to climb with just a harness and rope AND not be limited to using just a blakes or tautline hitch... In addition to the icicle, I've tried the distel, mich, schwab, and a VT with this method and they all worked okay (some better than others after figuring out how many wraps and such)... Didn't even need a biner but was still able to try out the different hitches...

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

climbing

Look like it will work. Some like the split tail. Adds a extra piece. The tautline, blakes, and some other prussic can be tyed with the tail. Just use more or less turns as you ty.

 

[Piranhamonkey]

I just started to rec climb and coming from a rock climbing background I immediatly noticed the benifit of having a split tail. I played around with the blakes and then found the Michoacan. It seems do do great, and with a micro pulley it does not have any problem tending. I dont limb walk often but i usually do it to take pictures or set up a second line for a friend, and it is pretty easy to pull back in.

New Approaches with Knot Tying: The Michoacan Knot

that is a link to an article that shows how to tie the knot. (Disclaimer, with any new knot please go low and slow)

 

[danltiger]

I've had this thread appear in my Google searches several times while I was doing some research. In spite of the age of the thread, I wanted to add my experience...

As most curious new climbers do, I started by purchasing a harness and rope, and made my first climbs with good ol' Blake's. However, as the OP also found, Blake's tended to bind up on me. Here's what I did: On the tail, just below my future friction hitch, I tied a figure-eight. I proceeded to tie a Michoacan (4/1), following the tail back through that figure-eight (now a figure-eight bend). You can easily feed or tighten the tail to adjust the Mic'. I made dozens of ascents on this configuration before I invested in a genuine split tail.

 

[lowandslow]

Gonna try Michoacan

I used to smoke a lot of michoacon, can't wait to try the knot....man

 

[lowandslow]

Michuacon knot

I tried the michuacan knot, it works great, grabs quickly, releases smoothly, I'll tie it with the tail next time , Good advice, Thanks