What is a lifetime? As far as warranty goes?

[chads]

I got a cleverly written email back from a warranty claim on a rain jacket that leaks today.
It reads as follows.

Hi Chad,

Good afternoon and thanks for the information. Unfortunately this jacket is no longer covered under warranty. We warranty our gear for the lifetime of the product not the person. This jacket dates back to being over a decade old and this is considered normal wear and tear of the materials breaking down over the years. I hope the jacket has served you well over the years. Thanks again for reaching out to xxxxx and have a great day.

Best regards,

Warranty Team

I figure lifetime meant as long as I have it, I guess I could go with my lifetime too, either way I would be satisfied or dead and wouldn't need it any longer.

This just seems to say if it's not functioning or old the product has reached its lifetime and the warranty expires.


I am curious if anyone else has run into a deal like this and what is common practice to determine the length of a lifetime warranty?

I have had pretty good luck with lifetime tools and car parts, bring them in and they replace them if you have receipt etc.
Some shoes, clothes have satisfaction warranties that say send it back we will send you a new one.
Tires,shingles,water heaters have been pro rated to a predetermined schedule etc.
I have never heard of lifetime being less than how long you have owned it.

Curious of your thoughts on common rules of what a lifetime is not ranting about any specific company etc.

Chad

 

[H-Ranch]

That's a pretty narrow definition of lifetime. If the "lifetime" is equal to 10 years then it seems a "10 year warranty" would be more appropriate to state when the product is sold. If it was say 50 years or expected adult life expectancy then they may have a case. I get that the specific model may no longer be available, but a suitable replacement would work better than the response you got. Does their website or literature give any specific definition?

Lifetime warranties sometimes get abused - I've seen guys returning tools that have been terribly abused or have minor appearance issues. I guess it may depend on how/why your rain jacket leaks. If it has a cut in it from your chainsaw then that's on you. Sounds like they are claiming it's just normal wear which sound pretty weak.

 

[rarefish383]

My wife and I gave my Dad a small Browning pocket knife for Christmas. A couple years later he showed me where he broke the tip off of it prying on something. He wouldn't
send it back because he said he broke it. I sent it back for him and a couple weeks later I got a note from Browning saying they no longer made that model, and please accept this new one from our custom shop. That's a lifetime warranty, Joe.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Lifetime is until the owner is pushing daisys.

Lifetime of the product? So let's say I buy a fridge with lifetime warranty. It stops keeping food cold after 3 years... ie... its "dead". It wouldn't be covered? That's not how it works!

 

[NSMaple1]

Usually a warranty has more words in it.

Something like, 'warranted against <whatever> for <the lifetime of the product> or <period of time>'.

So, without having the rest of your warranty words to read, can't really say....

 

[Stihl310]

I had a Bowtech bow with the same issue. Limbs exploded 7 years after I bought it (3rd time they had to be replaced) they told me within a year I wouldn't have been able to get parts for it anymore... so much for a lifetime warranty.


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[svk]

This is one that we learned about in high school shop class.

"Lifetime guarantee" means for the expected lifetime of the item. For example if you have a tire that starts losing chunks of tread at 20,000 miles that would be warrantied because it happened before the tire was expected to be worn out through normal use. If a tool randomly breaks and it isn't because it was completely worn out they they will replace it. Abuse/misuse is not covered.

"Guaranteed forever" means they will replace the item when it fails, with the exception of misuse/abuse. IE if you wear out the internals of a ratchet they will replace it. Unless of course the handle has big dents where someone put a pipe on it to use it as a breaker bar. Some companies consider it to be the lifetime of the original owner and others actually guarantee it forever.

 

[Guswhit]

I believe that most companies use the term "lifetime" to freely. There are some that go above and beyond to satisfy the consumer. As one of the above posts pointed out with the pocket knife story. I too have had several over the years that some have left me very happy and others not so much. My latest was for a nice insulated flannel/jacket outer shirt I purchased at the Duluth trading company. Now I wear this as an exterior jacket with layers almost everyday in the fall/winter/spring. Somewhere along the 3rd winter I got a snag on one of the snap buttons and it pulled the exterior cap off. Clearly my fault. I called them to see if I could purchase a replacement snap button, thought I could put it on myself and resume using it. Gal on the phone looked up my info from the original purchase and said she would send out a new jacket if and if I returned the other one in the package provided with the free shipping to them she would refund my credit card when that happened. Now , I was a little surprised at the offer, but within a week the new one had arrived, I shipped the other one back and they credited my card for the full amount. Miracles do happen!

 

[cantoo]

I've always understood it to be the expected life of the product. I have 10 year old coats and cover alls, my wife started sewing patches over holes within weeks of me putting them on for the 1st time. I have maybe 10 snow suits/winter work clothes and most of them are a series of patches. I hate to throw them away. My wife makes me change before I go to Town to get something. I have good ones for my day job and she makes me remove them as soon as I get home. Pics of 2 of my favorite pairs. Just broke the zipper on one pair but a pair of needle nose pliers and they work fine.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

I think a lot of companies take the sign my buddy has in his shop for their meaning. "All my welds come with a lifetime Guarantee. When they break, their 'life' is over."

I always found Midas to have the cheesiest scheme when they advertised they have the lifetime thing. It was only on their mufflers and you had to pay for all the damaged pipes, clamps and labor for them to replace it. No thanks.

 

[NSMaple1]

I think a lot of companies take the sign my buddy has in his shop for their meaning. "All my welds come with a lifetime Guarantee. When they break, their 'life' is over."

I always found Midas to have the cheesiest scheme when they advertised they have the lifetime thing. It was only on their mufflers and you had to pay for all the damaged pipes, clamps and labor for them to replace it. No thanks.

Then there's the 'lifetime brakes' angle.....

 

[svk]

I've always understood it to be the expected life of the product. I have 10 year old coats and cover alls, my wife started sewing patches over holes within weeks of me putting them on for the 1st time. I have maybe 10 snow suits/winter work clothes and most of them are a series of patches. I hate to throw them away. My wife makes me change before I go to Town to get something. I have good ones for my day job and she makes me remove them as soon as I get home. Pics of 2 of my favorite pairs. Just broke the zipper on one pair but a pair of needle nose pliers and they work fine.
View attachment 552156 View attachment 552157

I definitely get my use out of clothes as well.

Jeans are only thrown away when the crotch area disentegrates because the fabric is worn so thin that it cannot hold up to use. Otherwise the rips, cuts, worn out cuffs etc ride along for the duration

 

[greenskeeper]

better than the "tail light guarantee"

 

[merc_man]

I had s zipper break on a coat that is supposed to be liftime guarantee on the zippers. They also told me it was too old and i would have to pay to get it fixed.
To me this is not lifetime waranty.

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[mohick]

I guess how ever long people want to whine and grovel over some p o s that is worn out!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rarefish383]

The old Craftsman tools you could put a pipe on and bend it in half and they didn't care or ask, just handed you a new one. Now you get a rebuilt one. If any of my old ratchets start to act up, I just order a rebuild kit. Sometimes they bulk at that, but, they don't make the old fast action ratchets they used to. When I was 12 in 1968 I got a Sears card. My parents flipped out, couldn't believe they gave a charge card to a kid. The clerk might have been goofing around, but the card went through. As long as I paid the bill my parents let me keep it. I finally lost it a few years ago. It was about half as big as an ATM card now, and it had to be processed on an old slide machine. The last couple times I used it they keyed in my account number. Then the numbers got longer and it wouldn't take. Never bothered with a new one, Joe.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

The old Craftsman tools you could put a pipe on and bend it in half and they didn't care or ask, just handed you a new one. Now you get a rebuilt one. If any of my old ratchets start to act up, I just order a rebuild kit. Sometimes they bulk at that, but, they don't make the old fast action ratchets they used to. When I was 12 in 1968 I got a Sears card. My parents flipped out, couldn't believe they gave a charge card to a kid. The clerk might have been goofing around, but the card went through. As long as I paid the bill my parents let me keep it. I finally lost it a few years ago. It was about half as big as an ATM card now, and it had to be processed on an old slide machine. The last couple times I used it they keyed in my account number. Then the numbers got longer and it wouldn't take. Never bothered with a new one, Joe.

Yeah, most don't know you can demand them to rebuild your older metal selector instead of handing you the cheap er plastic version. DON'T give yours up. If they refuse, talk to a manager or go to another store. I'm wondering how much longer they will be around. K marts are dropping like flies as well as the Sears around here. Progress.

 

[abbott295]

My mother had had some Revere Ware pots and pans that had been wedding presents. One of the handles came off a Dutch oven once. Since she grew up in the Bloomington-Champaign-Decatur triangle of Illinois and there was a Revere factory in Clinton, Ill. (in the triangle) she had one of her sisters who still lived there take it to the factory to see if they could put the handle back on. They just gave her a new one. This was maybe 35 years ago, before I got married. The pot was probably about 30 years old then. My mother just died the first of December, probably still had the pot.

 

[chads]

I have been posting on this subject in more than one forum and decided to write them back after thinking about all of the responses I have received.
I figure a straight forward approach and explaining what I do with their product would better make them understand The long term effect of standing behind their product.
Chad


Hello ,

I took some time to review your letter I posted on a few outdoor forums and we discussed your response to my warranty claim.

Given the number of responses that were surprised by the response I received, we feel you must be mistaken on the length of the warranty.

I have consulted several people and they all say that a lifetime does not have a end date. Some even sited legal definitions etc.

Nearly everybody felt that if you provide a warranty(I posted a copy) such as yours and the product is not damaged due to wear and tear by the purchaser the Mfg. should cover it. Some even said many brands(with examples) will take it back and replace it no matter what caused it to fail giving the purchaser undoubted confidence in the integrity of the product and brand.

I could see if it was leaking from wearing through, rips or tears etc. but it is not.

However to say it is not warranted under our lifetime warranty simply due to its age is upsetting. I paid good money for a superior product and a superior lifetime warranty only to get a warranty denied due to age. Many suggested(although not so politely) I should ask you to reread the main words in your "LIFETIME WARRANTY"

As a consumer of outdoor products we have many options to spend our hard earned money, I hope to continue to support your brand.

As a Scout leader I often get asked about what brand to buy, what brands hold up or who has the best stuff.
In the past I regarded your products and company as superior and gave your products a good rating. However not standing behind your product will have me add "But they won't stand behind their product warranty" I will not say that unless its true.

The product is falling apart due to its quality, not damaged or worn away as you would call normal wear and tear.


I recently went to Wood Badge Scout Leader Training am working on completing my Wood Badge ticket, one of the five items I am to complete over the next 18 months is a video on the correct gear to outfit yourself for a Scouting overnight outings and hikes. I plan to feature things like tents, bags, cooking equipment, and rain gear.

One of the first things that came to mind is to emphasize staying dry on any outing, Often times I include mistakes I made purchasing things that did not work out or perform the way they were promoted. It is my job to pass on my experiences to better prepare them for the conditions at hand.

I also have to give talks on hiking and camping gear at the Den and Pack level. To do this I developed the "outdoor minute" to give a few minute talk at each meeting about some form of outdoor gear selection or fitment. This is a perfect example of why I am doing the talks so I can educate the scout families on what to buy and why, who honors their warranty, what is the best value etc.
I talk at least 2 times a month to the scouts and am heavily involved in the program.

With 75 scouts and 150 parents and another 75 or so siblings the last thing I want on a group outing is someone saying the gear your recommended is not working out.

Last week someone was in need of a rain pants so I am planning to talk about that, I guess you have to ask yourself who you want me to recommend.


Bottom line my scouts and I want to continue to use and support your company.

I am eager to hear how you plan to correct your initial response to my claim . Many of my friends also look forward to my posting how you took care of the matter at hand.



Thank You,

Chad Stucke

New Albany Pack 150

Assistant Cubmaster Outdoor Activities Leader

Simon Kenton Counsel

 

[NSMaple1]

I don't think you posted the warranty here?

Or how old it is. Or pics.