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LOL...a 36" safety chain? Calling BS Phil....unless of course you're spinnin' these yourself...get real.
What is the real speed penalty with "safety" chain?
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Friggs
ArboristSite Lurker
I dug out my safety chains and had a good look at them and the safety link is slightly lower than the rakers, not by much. So I grinded them down 1/8"-1/4" below the rakers and what a difference, It cuts like new.
Tomorrow I'll grind down the other safety chain also.
I wonder if any of those shops that sharpen chain will refuse them once the safety links are taken down.
Frank
Tomorrow I'll grind down the other safety chain also.
I wonder if any of those shops that sharpen chain will refuse them once the safety links are taken down.
Frank
jra1100
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wood4heat
I know about as much about chains as I do about nuclear fission, in fact I know a lot more about nuclear fission. That said, thanks to this site I am learning. I have sawed firewood for about 30 years, and to my shame learned little about saws, and nothing about chain. Chain was something that when they were all dull ya went down to Ol Johnny O'Brien's saw shop and drank coffee and shot the BS until they were sharp again. Now sharpen my own and know a little more. The chain in question was one with a rather long thin bar between each link. It's been so long since I ground it down that I don't remember it all that well. I left the rakers alone, just ground those bars down as far as possible. It made the saw perform like a totally different saw. Also as I said I got a new chain from my Leroy my new dealer (Johnny died) and it is even better, it's a Stihl chain, but have no idea of which one. JR
I know about as much about chains as I do about nuclear fission, in fact I know a lot more about nuclear fission. That said, thanks to this site I am learning. I have sawed firewood for about 30 years, and to my shame learned little about saws, and nothing about chain. Chain was something that when they were all dull ya went down to Ol Johnny O'Brien's saw shop and drank coffee and shot the BS until they were sharp again. Now sharpen my own and know a little more. The chain in question was one with a rather long thin bar between each link. It's been so long since I ground it down that I don't remember it all that well. I left the rakers alone, just ground those bars down as far as possible. It made the saw perform like a totally different saw. Also as I said I got a new chain from my Leroy my new dealer (Johnny died) and it is even better, it's a Stihl chain, but have no idea of which one. JR
Raymond
Addicted to ArboristSite
Congrats Frank, Yeah if you pay to have them sharpened again, they'll do it for ya. And the next time you buy a new chain tell'em to give you the right chain. But you knew that.
It's kinda like strapping a 2x4 block under a turtle. Sure he'll still be able to get around and reach the ground, it'll just be by his tiptoes and be a little harder.
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Zero Gravity
ArboristSite Operative
I think this thread needs a little context. I have two saws a 353 and a 372. The 50cc saw came with 95VP and cuts great. The 372 has RSC on it. You use what's best for the application. The new saw is NK and the 95VP is the best in class, only in class chain for it. The OEM chain manufactures are not doing any development on new non safety chain. There is a reason for this. The chain manufactures can achieve near identical performance with green chain features compared to the yellow chain. Take a close look at the new green chains. They have features to remove the weight from link that the safety ramp adds in. The new green chain also has several oiling features designed in. So when selecting a chain for your saw choose what you want and what is correct for you equipment. On future saws we might not have a choice. We are pretty close on the NK stuff now.
ZG
ZG
woodguy105
ArboristSite Guru
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And in what alternative universe do you believe that reason could possibly be that the green and yellow have reached a level playing field?
Gee, Zero....have you followed the comments here??? How do you use your saws??? I can't fathom anyone thinking these two chains perform ANYWHERE near the same.
Zero Gravity
ArboristSite Operative
Reading is fun-da-mental.
No comparison was made in the performance of the two different chains. The point is newly designed green chains preform very well and there is no other choice, The future high speed NK chains are green and will be green only.
ZG
Raymond
Addicted to ArboristSite
You know in all the years I've been doing this, the only ones who think the safety chains are no slower than a real chain, are people that sell them but never use them.
Whatta you do for a living Zero? :monkey:
Zero Gravity
ArboristSite Operative
For real. I know that it would be scoffed on this site. We clean up downed trees after disasters. Work with volunteers. Never bore cut with it. Not in any kind of race. Sometimes have bigger trees where we want the longer bar and increased horsepower of the 660's. Our dealer makes up the loops for us.
Zero Gravity said:
The 'green' and yellow' coding only applies to STIHL chains. Oregon uses a 'blue' and 'yellow' coding. I don't know what other manufacturers use. I would have assumed that there would be a uniform color coding with the ANSI standard, but apparently not.
Philbert
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I am forced to wonder at times how any of us have managed to live for more than 50 years without all the benefits of today's safety enhancers? Cars didn't have seat belts when we were kids, my regular spot was over the engine in the back of the Microbus, went all the way to California and back, again later on in the '65 Ford wagon with rear seats facing the middle, again no belts.
We cut wood for years with 80 cc McCulloch saws, no safety chain, no chain brake, no chaps, we did normally wear ear plugs or later on when they were invented. We all (dad, two brothers, and I) still have all our limbs and digits so we must have done something right.
I still regularly run several saws w/o brakes including the SP125 and my favorite small saw the Jonsered 621. My 036 has a brake but in all the years of running I don't think I've ever had it come on from an inertia event, I have caught it on a branch a time or two.
If you don't know what you are doing, or you do something you know you should not, chances are you could get hurt. I don't think safety chain will really help the guy who needs it most.
Mark
We cut wood for years with 80 cc McCulloch saws, no safety chain, no chain brake, no chaps, we did normally wear ear plugs or later on when they were invented. We all (dad, two brothers, and I) still have all our limbs and digits so we must have done something right.
I still regularly run several saws w/o brakes including the SP125 and my favorite small saw the Jonsered 621. My 036 has a brake but in all the years of running I don't think I've ever had it come on from an inertia event, I have caught it on a branch a time or two.
If you don't know what you are doing, or you do something you know you should not, chances are you could get hurt. I don't think safety chain will really help the guy who needs it most.
Mark
redprospector
Addicted to ArboristSite
There is no doubt that "safety chain" cuts slower than non "safety chain", by how much I don't know personally. Others have testified to the speed (or lack there of) of "safety chain" in their experience.
Whether or not one should use safety chain is a personal decision. Have you been trained in the proper use of a chainsaw? Are you comfortable running "non safety chain"? Every tool has it's place. I use "safety chain" on the chainsaw cutter wheel for my grinder, I don't think I want to run it with 72CL on it.
For every one who say's it's stupid to run "safety chain", or only a panty waist uses "safety chain"......................Well, that would be the same as me saying, if you don't run square ground chain you're stupid. I mean after all square ground is 15 to 20% faster than round ground in the cut.
It's not all about speed in the cut (that sounds strange coming from someone who builds race chains.
), it's about what your comfortable using at the task you're doing. If a person dosen't do a lot of cutting they may want to stick with "safety chain", but if they are running their saw every day, making a living with it they may opt for a more aggressive solution.
Andy
Whether or not one should use safety chain is a personal decision. Have you been trained in the proper use of a chainsaw? Are you comfortable running "non safety chain"? Every tool has it's place. I use "safety chain" on the chainsaw cutter wheel for my grinder, I don't think I want to run it with 72CL on it.
For every one who say's it's stupid to run "safety chain", or only a panty waist uses "safety chain"......................Well, that would be the same as me saying, if you don't run square ground chain you're stupid. I mean after all square ground is 15 to 20% faster than round ground in the cut.
It's not all about speed in the cut (that sounds strange coming from someone who builds race chains.
), it's about what your comfortable using at the task you're doing. If a person dosen't do a lot of cutting they may want to stick with "safety chain", but if they are running their saw every day, making a living with it they may opt for a more aggressive solution.Andy
We didn't all make it. Only the survivors on this site.
"Each year, approximately 36,000 people are treated in hospital emergency departments for injuries from using chain saws." - Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Agree that it won't protect the criminally stupid.
Philbert
Raymond
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You're absolutely right Andy. If someone new with running saws, by all means they should use these chains.
I think it was the first post that got me and a few other guys worked up on this issue.
I think it was the first post that got me and a few other guys worked up on this issue.
SWE#Kipp
Addicted to ArboristSite
I can honestly not notice a difference in cutting speed between a 20" 73LP or a ditto 73LG ?
with longer bars maybe, were chip clearance might be greater factor for cutting speed ,,,
but if safety is the ones with bumpers between the cutters i can see they would suck ,,,,, not much chip clearance there !
with longer bars maybe, were chip clearance might be greater factor for cutting speed ,,,
but if safety is the ones with bumpers between the cutters i can see they would suck ,,,,, not much chip clearance there !
If you search for "kickback" on the Injuries and Fatalites thread, many (most?) of the mishaps involved experienced sawers. ("sawyers"?)
I think this is to be expected... an amateur can quit when he gets fatigued or bored. If he's hung over or tired, he can just skip cutting altogether. Plus, a pro simply spends a lot more time cutting - a lot more opportunities to make a mistake.
I'm not advocating safety chains for pros, just arguing for the other side... "devil's advocate"...? :notrolls2:
Here's a question: would you be more inclined to run safety chain if you were using an older saw without a chain brake?
OK, stick tight...
See Post #71... I'm planning on doing a little comparo by first timing a cut with Stihl PM1, then cutting off the bumpers and making another timed cut...
...I'm kind of busy lately; I'll make a separate post when I get around to doing this...
7sleeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
I am relativly new(since about 2and1/2 years) to using a chainsaw and I have just aquired a new Makta/Dolmar5001. I got a safety chain with it and am going to use it for quite some time until I feel more familier with it.
7
7
Oh, and just FYI:
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/sections/preamble/chainbrakes_preamble.html
Although the low-kickback chain can reduce kickback energy by 40 to 90 percent, there are drawbacks to its use, according to the CPSC report. These drawbacks include: (1) New technology chains generally exhibit some loss in cutting efficiency (speed and ease of cutting), (2) these chains make cutting more tiring for the operator thereby causing more operator fatigue, and (3) the loss of cutting efficiency may adversely affect the life of the chain. The loss of cutting efficiency has been estimated to be anywhere from a 10 to 25 percent. OSHA has no estimates of the increase in operator fatigue and the degradation in the service life of the chain.
I don't know when this was written... 1995?
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/sections/preamble/chainbrakes_preamble.html
Although the low-kickback chain can reduce kickback energy by 40 to 90 percent, there are drawbacks to its use, according to the CPSC report. These drawbacks include: (1) New technology chains generally exhibit some loss in cutting efficiency (speed and ease of cutting), (2) these chains make cutting more tiring for the operator thereby causing more operator fatigue, and (3) the loss of cutting efficiency may adversely affect the life of the chain. The loss of cutting efficiency has been estimated to be anywhere from a 10 to 25 percent. OSHA has no estimates of the increase in operator fatigue and the degradation in the service life of the chain.
I don't know when this was written... 1995?
