What to look for in a processor?

[Sandhill Crane]

I'm about two, maybe three, years out in getting a processor, maybe less if I buy a used one. I do not need a super fast, 'four plus cord a minute machine'. From what I'm hearing output is close to half advertised anyway. I'm small time, but getting and feeling older, plus you have to do some volume to pay the bills to keep running.

Who doesn't like new. We'll see. But for conversation and practicality sake, lets cap it at $55,000. to $60,000. I'm cutting 8' (100") oak cord wood. (so one of the modifications for me would be a double, or side by side log deck, or opposing log decks. Hey why not?)
In theory, having never been around a processor of any type, the circular blade is appealing.

So without me going on and on, (like I do) I'd like to hear some discussion from anyone of course, and especially those running new or used processors of both styles. Some new ones can be had for $35,000. Are they something to look at, or walk away from? Thanks...

 

[shamusturbo]

I am currently running a CRD Rapido Loco 20. Bought used in Jacksonville Dec 30th 2014 with 286 hours. Almost 400 hours on it now. 50" circular saw blade, 20" capacity, 73 HP, very fuel efficient Deutz. I built my first splitter when I was 15 which I still own. Then owned the northern tool model, timberwolf tw-5, CRD green monster splitter, then this CRD RL20. This was over the past 11 years. I would say this is in the class of the fastest processors going, if not, very very close. EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON THE QUALITY OF THE WOOD YOU ARE SPLITTING.

Considerations (in order of importance, IMHO):
1. Will you have a partner? I would pull my hair out if I had to run, full time, by myself. I can barely keep the live deck loaded and the outfeed conveyor clear as fast as my brother (the better processor operator) can run the machine. However, I do take time to trim some of the poles better so that he can process as fast as possible.
2. Are you sure you can attain/purchase/have delivered enough poles/"input wood" to meet your goals?
3. Wedge/Weld Quality--the component that takes the most beating. It will eventually need a hug or replaced.
4. Outfeed conveyor length/height/belt quality (you have to move the finished product or the machine eventually)
5. I love the circ saw. I have sharpened twice and neither time was it particularly dull. I held out for a circular saw and would recommend it highly.
6. Resale was a consideration for me too. There are countless examples of customers selling a 1k-4k hour machine to buy a new one and getting top dollar.
7. How important is mobility? I wish I had the new folding outfeed conveyor because of how much I do move the machine.
8. Will you use it "for-hire"? If you have a customer that will be loading the wood, they will also have to unload and reload the conveyor on the older models.

You mentioned 100". The spread is about 84"(?) on the live deck on the model I own. It takes an above average operator to stack them up nicely to keep the flow going. I have seen them, on earlier models, with a third, shorter leg in the middle for feeding smaller wood which I wish I had. Instead I stack the shorts with a skidsteer then load with a grapple trailer at the end of the infeed conveyor.

You lose quality with any processor. (Versus maximizing "input wood" by traditional log splitting) Will you have to adjust your price or are you willing to replit and/or sort out knots, rotten pieces, or junk?

***I sell wood at a much better margin then most just because of my demographic, I hand sort anything less desirable out of what is sold, and I deliver AND stack. In turn, my volume requirement to turn a profit is somewhat lower and the time I spend sorting and delivering/stacking takes time away from me selling 500 cords instead of 250-310. Hence around 100 machine hours a year including some "for-hire" jobs.

I always keep tabs on the used machines because I enjoy to. There are tons out there relative to what was available 2 years ago or 4 years ago. I don't want to endorse one avenue or another but some patience and internet navigation and you will find what you want. A comparable machine, right now, could be had in the neighborhood of $40k-$50k. A new one is still close to the top end of your budget.

I will think up more items as I go and will post back.....

 

[muddstopper]

I can only give a wish list of what I want in a processor. I have demo'ed a couple of different machines and nothing I have tried suited me enough that I would buy one. First machine I tried was a blockbuster. It was set up under a shed with a out feed conveyor and the owner loaded logs with a skidsteer. I processed one walnut log, about 12-14 in dia. After a couple of cuts, I was already sick of the machine, hyd saw was just to slow/weak. Other wise the machine ran fine and I liked the live log deck, as well as the conveyor. Man that owned it was selling to buy a bigger machine as he needed more productivity.

Second machine I demo'ed was a Cordking. Circle saw would cut fast enough, but log size I believe was limited to 20 or 22 inches. While the owner had several different multi wedges, he chose to just use the 4way and had a couple of regular log splitter along the side of the off feed conveyor. Two people , one on each side of the conveyor, would catch the bigger splits and resplit on those extra splitters, and let the splits fall back onto the conveyor. He was setup for productivity with drying kilns and bundlers. Also had to have several folks, as well as support equipment, working to keep things flowing.

After going from slow and steady to run like heck to keep up, I want something in the middle. Chain saw to buck with, but big enough to handle larger rounds than the circular blade, with enough power that you dont have to wait all day to buck a round. Wedge designed so as t not to have to keep resplitting the bigger stuff. Someway to load without having to have extra help and equipment around all the time. All of which cost you money. A off feed conveyor is a must, and it must be towable with a pickup truck. Need to be able to load and process without leaving the operators seat as I hate climbing on and off equipment.

I havent found such a machine yet, so I will just keep piddleing with my own build and someday...........

 

[Circle B MN]

I can only give a wish list of what I want in a processor. I have demo'ed a couple of different machines and nothing I have tried suited me enough that I would buy one. First machine I tried was a blockbuster. It was set up under a shed with a out feed conveyor and the owner loaded logs with a skidsteer. I processed one walnut log, about 12-14 in dia. After a couple of cuts, I was already sick of the machine, hyd saw was just to slow/weak. Other wise the machine ran fine and I liked the live log deck, as well as the conveyor. Man that owned it was selling to buy a bigger machine as he needed more productivity.

Second machine I demo'ed was a Cordking. Circle saw would cut fast enough, but log size I believe was limited to 20 or 22 inches. While the owner had several different multi wedges, he chose to just use the 4way and had a couple of regular log splitter along the side of the off feed conveyor. Two people , one on each side of the conveyor, would catch the bigger splits and resplit on those extra splitters, and let the splits fall back onto the conveyor. He was setup for productivity with drying kilns and bundlers. Also had to have several folks, as well as support equipment, working to keep things flowing.

After going from slow and steady to run like heck to keep up, I want something in the middle. Chain saw to buck with, but big enough to handle larger rounds than the circular blade, with enough power that you dont have to wait all day to buck a round. Wedge designed so as t not to have to keep resplitting the bigger stuff. Someway to load without having to have extra help and equipment around all the time. All of which cost you money. A off feed conveyor is a must, and it must be towable with a pickup truck. Need to be able to load and process without leaving the operators seat as I hate climbing on and off equipment.

I havent found such a machine yet, so I will just keep piddleing with my own build and someday...........

That middle ground between splitter and processor is a tough place that a lot of us have found ourselves in....

 

[Pcoz88]

How about the hudson badger.

 

[muddstopper]

Lots of those winch type processors out there. I think they would make a excellent machine for a single homeowner or someone that doesnt process a lot of wood each year. Might be a good machine for someone doing tree work and needing something to process wood when they arent doing regular tree work. For a real production setup, I feel those small machines would be to slow.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I've been rereading these posts several times. Shamusturbo experience and questions are most helpful

The true question is will a processor pay for itself with increased production. Which leads to...
How does a processor pay for itself? Increased production being the simple answer.
So forget about how much logs cost, or maybe don't cost.

How much does it cost per cord to run a processor?
Kind of like how much does it cost per mile to own a car?
In other word what are the numbers...

A made up example:

$60,000 machine
$30,000 resale after 10 years. (is this realistic?)
$10,000 maintenance over 10 years. (is this realistic?)
$40,000 ownership cost over 10 years
$4,000 per year ownership cost.
300 cord per year
$4,000/300 cord = $13.33 per cord processer cost.

Say maintenance cost average $3,000 per year or $30,000. over ten years... worst case...
$60,000 ownership cost over 10 years
$6,000 per year
300 cord per year
$6,000/300 cord per year = $20. per cord processor cost.

Of course there are a ton of additional expenses per cord for auxiliary equipment and labor.

I'm thinking in this example, correct me if I'm wrong, that a circular vs chain saw processor purchasing/operating costs is a wash over a ten year, or three thousand cord span.

 

[Pcoz88]

17000 pretty steep for a home owner. I agree it's someone doing firewood part time. Full time one of them other machines.

 

[muddstopper]

I can only give opinions, which are not worth the 2cents most people charge for such information. I have struggled for a few years about which machine to buy. Watched every youtube video, traveled to sites to observe different brands being operated. Every owner of every brand thinks theirs are the best. One thing I think I have learned from all the folks I have talked to is the circle saws will stay sharp a lot longer than chains, which in a high production situation I think would be a very big plus. On the other thand, chains are a lot cheaper than circle saws and take a lot less hyd hp to operate. Every brand is limited to log dia it will process. Because of blade cost, large dia wood, (larger than 20-22in) is usually not an option with circle saw processors. Where as with a chainsaw setup, its much cheaper to build a processor that will handle larger dia size wood. Not saying you cant get a circle saw processor that will handle large dia wood, just that you will pay for it if you do. As for depreciation and machine life span, I know of several machines that have been in operation a lot longer than the 10years given in your example. Pricing used machines, I dont really see a significant amount of depreciation when you consider the cost of the machine 10 years ago and what that machine will sell for today. Prices of new machines can make those old machines look cheap. As for me personally buying a new or used machine, I started a build a couple of years ago which if I ever get healthy again, I intend to complete. It will be a hyd chainsaw processor, with a lot larger dia capacity than any of the affordable factory processors. It probably wont have the speed of the big circle saw processors, but still out perform most of the smaller more affordable ones.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I'm just thinking out load. The example numbers estimate cost of machine and possible repairs, but not day to day cost to operate. The true cost would be a long term average over many years. Offsetting the cost would be less time and physical effort per cord, and more cord output. In essence, it would be similar to hiring someone, except nothing would get done if your not there.

Shamusturo and muddstopper both bring up the same point, that the splits from a splitter, and those from a processor are not the same quality, unless sorted or resplit. (resplit must not be a word...the computer keeps changing it.) That is what keeps me from using a Dyna processor that is available for rent. If I can process two, maybe three cords and hour with it that's great. If I have to resplit it, then I've not gained much savings in time or labor. It would be like splitting large rounds with the TW-6 into manageable pieces and resplitting on a SS. Which I've done. Although it sounds good, the reality is it is foolishness. Simpler to resplit on the TW right off. I watched a guy run a processor and resplit each piece in the processor before cutting the next round. Seemed very, very slow, but also low effort. (From watching Yutube videos there are many machines that there is not access to the splitter trough to resplit.) Cords per hour, I'm guessing one half to one full cord, maybe. That works for me if I owned the processor, but not to pay daily rent. He was running it by himself and processing into a dump truck. This was early spring so I really don't remember, but I'm thinking it was $350./day rent.

Shamusturbo's questions have helped me look at how a processor would/or would not benefit me. Which brought me to the question making money. Not just pocket money, but actually as a business, making money. More cords processed more money. To me, that points at... a processor. But there is another factor, and that is trying to make more money per cord. To do that...'processor' is not the first thing that comes to mind. Bundling, and possibly kiln drying, does. Again, I'm just thinking out load. Money in/money out.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Have 2 Blockbusters on site. A 2001 model 18-20 with about 7500 hours and my 2013 15-20 with about 800 hours.

I disagree with a processor making lower quality wood. That's all up to the operator taking a bit of time to not make garbage.
If anything I get better quality. Accurate lengths of wood and fairly uniform split sizes. My wood is stacked in trucks as well so any junk that is missed while splitting is sorted out then. I do about 500 cords a year.

Cost? My 15-20 with a 20ft conveyor was under your budget. It has a 35hp Kubota.
Great on fuel, about a gallon an hr. Never have had trouble with it starting, even at -25*.

I'd suggest Getting The "plus" model, The SPLITTER Setup Is Much Bigger And stronger. (Not sure why my phone is putting random caps, I tried fixing it but it keeps changing it back?! Argh!)

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

As far as chain or circle saw, I'd rather have chain.

Way better on fuel, safer, more controllable, less firewood turned into sawdust, cheaper all around.

The circle saw is a bit faster, about the only plus.

I've been around a Cord King 60, Woodbine 20 and Multitech circle saw and bar saw (forget the model #). All gave their "that's really nice" features as well as "that's stupid" too.
Example, I just spent $900 on a radiator and fan because of lack of adequate radiator guards on my machine (soon to be fixed)


I'm on the original bar and have worn out 3 loops of chain on my machine. I've got about 700 cords on it. Generally get 10-12 cords between sharpenings.


For a conveyor, the rubber belted ones don't work worth a darn in the rain or when it's cold. A chain and paddle isn't fussy like that but is noisy.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I truly appreciate the hands on information and opinions people share on this site. And yeah, phones/computers can drive you crazy. For the most part, they can spell way better, or as my son now grown son used to say, 'more gooder'.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

ValleyFirewood: What about bar oil expense and consumption? Do you buy it by the drum?

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

ValleyFirewood: What about bar oil expense and consumption? Do you buy it by the drum?

It actually doesn't use bar oil but instead hydraulic oil. I use maybe 8-10 gallons a year.
I suppose that is something a slasher saw wouldn't need.

Grinder for slasher saw teeth is pretty expensive. Grinder for chain, not so bad and can do chainsaw chain too (same grunding wheel even).

Loops of chain are cheap, about $25.

I didn't figure it was good to use over actual bar oil but the 18-20 a previous owner modified to use bar oil and the bars wear out quicker for some reason. Also a fuss in winter.

Cost is about the same. Pail of AW32 is $40-50, bar oil about $10 a gal.

With it using hydraulic oil, in theory never need to change the oil.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

18-20 uses an air system that returns the splitter and lifts the bar.

I'm not exactly sure how it works, I haven't torn it apart, but it SUCKS in the winter. Constantly fighting it freezing up. Have to put methanol in the system and stick heaters on it.

The 15-20 is all hydraulic. No fuss and it's quicker. Just no auto lift of the bar or auto return of splitter so 2 more hand movements (no big deal)

I know Michigan stays 70* year round though... you'll be processing in January in just shorts and a T Shirt right? Hahaha!

 

[muddstopper]

I dont see how its possible to get even size splits using 4/6/8 way blades. Even with an adjustable wedge, if you are splitting large 20in or so dia rounds, you are going to end up with splits that are 10inches wide, each needing to be resplit. I run into that with my 6way adjustable wedge on my splitter all the time. Since I regularly split rounds much bigger than 20 inches, I usually just run them thru the splitter and sort out anything to big for the stove when stacking. Those big pieces get resplit later. My processor plans call for a circle wedge that I can adjust the height on. 12 splits per round. since nothing says the wedge has to be perfectly centered on the round, I hope to be able to adjust the height to the point that small rounds will give 4/6/or 8 even size splits and then on the bigger round center up and get 12 fairly equal splits. Since my wedge is big enough to handle a 30in dia round, some of the outer edge splits will still need some resplitting. I also expect a lot of splinters. I just dont see any way out of that fact. I think that unless you can get wood that is all the same size, it is going to be very hard not to have to do some resplitting.

 

[cantoo]

I don't own a processor.
To me you need the answer to a few questions to help make a decision.
To me the most important question is "what size wood will I be processing"? High speed processors don't do big firewood and the main reason is because it's time consuming and requires bigger, stronger everything which means more expensive. 10" and straight log length logs with a 4 way splitter would be the fastest splitting you could do. The steel required to split 20" logs would be many times more expensive than required to split 10" logs. Sure some people will say 20" logs are cheaper but you won't get the production numbers and consistent size customers prefer.
I drive all over Ontario and see many processors and piles of logs. The big boys all have smaller diameter logs piled up. Most appear to be circular blades. The little guys have every size piled up. I assume they are running chain saw bars. This tells me that to make money you need to be splitting wood not fighting with every size of log. Like Henry Ford said "you can have any color as long as it's black".
I have several splitters and every size of ash tree available. My fastest (consistent size splits) tree to process is 10" trees using my 4 way adjustable splitter. Bigger logs just require more handling and less splits off the end of the conveyor.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Muddstopper: Block Buster 15-20 splitting 20" isn't an option.

 

[muddstopper]

Muddstopper: Block Buster 15-20 splitting 20" isn't an option.

And thats why I wouldnt consider a blockbuter 15-20 as processor that would meet my needs. Cantoo, brings up a good point. what size wood will you be processing. I know I get big knarly stuff that wouldnt pass thru the blockbuster. The expensive circle saw machines are also limited to 20in dia. While 20in dia will take care of a large portion of the wood I harvest, there is also a very large percentage that those machines just cant do. When I first started considering building my own machine, I took a tape measure and headed to my wood pile. I found that I had a large amount of rounds that exceeded 24in dia and that 27in would pretty much cover anything in my wood pile. I am building my machine so that I can, if needed, process up to 30in dia wood. anything that will push a 30in dia round thru a 12way wedge is going to take massive amounts of power, Not only in cyl size and hyd pressure, but in engine hp as well. My engine choice will be around 190hp, I am using twin 4.5in bore cyl, I will have 3 hyd pumps capable of pumping around 90gpm. To buy a machine like I want would cost $100grand or more. I have been lucky in my scroungeing and have most of it ready to put together. I have spent less that $5000, but will probably spend twice more than that by the time the machine is finished. If I hadnt of torn my rotator cuff last sept and then had my knee replaced a couple of months ago, I would probably be ready to actually test the machine. I have spent a lot of time planning this build, and would like to think I have everything figured out, but know I will have a few surprises before this thing is finished. Hopefully those surprises dont include parts flying everywhere and blood tranfusions and body casts.