Not doing processing till mid October. So will be awhile yet.
What to look for in a processor?
- Thread starter Sandhill Crane
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shamusturbo
ArboristSite Member
Sandhill Crane- The main reasoning for a processor, I would think, for most people is increasing production. That was ours, to a point. Volume is not our main MO though. When we keep quality high, I think we can keep the price higher than it would be otherwise thus profiting the same amount with fewer machinery hours/maintenance. Not everyone wants to pay top dollar for perfect firewood either and we cater, to a point, to those customers as well. We deliver and stack and that eats a ton of time and labor but that also keeps 35 or so (mostly older) customers very happy. (who usually tip as well)
MNGuns- Operating between having splitters and a processor makes it tough. We physically were doing all we could do with the machinery we had and were turning customers away. We wanted to keep prices the same, up production to capture more customers, and not lose any quality which was very difficult. Still looking for a perfect balance.
ValleyFirewood- I still split the odds and ends by hand and the quality is definitely different, to me anyways. We live in totally different markets too. I ASSume you sell, for the most part, to people that depend on firewood to survive. I sell probably half of what we make to people looking to get laid. (We call them "girlfriend fire" customers) Low volume, smaller splits, straight grain, still cheaper than the supermarket or gas station, $20, $50, and $100 increments. When I was looking, I was hoping for a Multitek 16-20SS and found the CRD with low hours and a great price. The circular saw is a luxury for sure. I am definitely making more sawdust but the teeth have had no expense yet. I have a replacement set from the original owner. (~$500? ish?) I have sharpened once or twice just to see if there was a difference. It is a 5/8" diamond burr bit that runs in a burr motor. I freehanded both times and seemed to work great. I have looked at the $580 dewalt mounted sharpener but I see no need. Sidenote: I freehand chainsaw chain with a cordless dremel with a 7/32" diamond burr with excellent results. I can still file too though. Also, the carpet style belt kinda sucks. You have to decrease the angle with really wet conditions and have to thaw it out if it freezes. It needs cleats but it has a gap 2/3 way up for scraps to fall out.
Muddstopper- I really wanted to build as well. I have the shop and welding machine and talent to do so. What is lacking is hydraulic knowledge which could be made up for with arboristsite from very knowledgeable, generous people like yourself. I decided the hours in the build and re-engineering would be better spent splitting/producing/getting past the "operations/learning curve"
Sam-tip- I haven't broken any hoses on the machine. Just all 4 tires though. I think the machine is a little heavier then what the 10k trailer it is mounted to is rated for. I blew a tire right outside Jacksonville and hit a PepBoys right before they closed and then again an hour from home in Waynesburg, PA just before the local stores opened and I found a mom and pop tire shop. I busted another one respositioning it last summer and then the fourth one this past May on the way to a "for-hire" job. I assume its from sitting in the Florida sun. I thought about covering them while it is parked as well. It has 2 mounted spares now. As for the for-hire, I charge $100 hour and $100 to show up (mobilization and demobilization charge, per say). The latest one we processed was 2 tri-axle loads (6-7 cords per) and 2 dozen poles the landowner had harvested himself.
MNGuns- Operating between having splitters and a processor makes it tough. We physically were doing all we could do with the machinery we had and were turning customers away. We wanted to keep prices the same, up production to capture more customers, and not lose any quality which was very difficult. Still looking for a perfect balance.
ValleyFirewood- I still split the odds and ends by hand and the quality is definitely different, to me anyways. We live in totally different markets too. I ASSume you sell, for the most part, to people that depend on firewood to survive. I sell probably half of what we make to people looking to get laid. (We call them "girlfriend fire" customers) Low volume, smaller splits, straight grain, still cheaper than the supermarket or gas station, $20, $50, and $100 increments. When I was looking, I was hoping for a Multitek 16-20SS and found the CRD with low hours and a great price. The circular saw is a luxury for sure. I am definitely making more sawdust but the teeth have had no expense yet. I have a replacement set from the original owner. (~$500? ish?) I have sharpened once or twice just to see if there was a difference. It is a 5/8" diamond burr bit that runs in a burr motor. I freehanded both times and seemed to work great. I have looked at the $580 dewalt mounted sharpener but I see no need. Sidenote: I freehand chainsaw chain with a cordless dremel with a 7/32" diamond burr with excellent results. I can still file too though. Also, the carpet style belt kinda sucks. You have to decrease the angle with really wet conditions and have to thaw it out if it freezes. It needs cleats but it has a gap 2/3 way up for scraps to fall out.
Muddstopper- I really wanted to build as well. I have the shop and welding machine and talent to do so. What is lacking is hydraulic knowledge which could be made up for with arboristsite from very knowledgeable, generous people like yourself. I decided the hours in the build and re-engineering would be better spent splitting/producing/getting past the "operations/learning curve"
Sam-tip- I haven't broken any hoses on the machine. Just all 4 tires though. I think the machine is a little heavier then what the 10k trailer it is mounted to is rated for. I blew a tire right outside Jacksonville and hit a PepBoys right before they closed and then again an hour from home in Waynesburg, PA just before the local stores opened and I found a mom and pop tire shop. I busted another one respositioning it last summer and then the fourth one this past May on the way to a "for-hire" job. I assume its from sitting in the Florida sun. I thought about covering them while it is parked as well. It has 2 mounted spares now. As for the for-hire, I charge $100 hour and $100 to show up (mobilization and demobilization charge, per say). The latest one we processed was 2 tri-axle loads (6-7 cords per) and 2 dozen poles the landowner had harvested himself.
ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
I sell about 500 cords a year. Mostly for people that heat with wood, some as primary heat, some just weekend fires in a fireplace. And some just outside firepit. Delivered about $800 of wood last winter to a guy that just like to sit outside by a fire.
My processor has moved about 10 miles in the 3 years I've been running it. Have no plans to move it again, it's a PITA once it's all setup and everything as I like it.
My processor has moved about 10 miles in the 3 years I've been running it. Have no plans to move it again, it's a PITA once it's all setup and everything as I like it.
I can only give opinion based on my personal situation. I agree, if your not looking to increase production or at the very least reduce the work load, why would any one consider a processor. They are expensive machines to purchase and require good maintenance if you wish them to last. I also agree that folks on this forum are a very good source of knowledge as well as help in ways that can you cant even think of until the right time pops up. For a one man operation, I would think decreasing the workload would be my number one priority, which is what led me toward building my own processor. I had a very good productive wood splitter. With enough people, we could split a cord in less than 30 min. Problem was, I didnt always have a bunch of folks to help me. My job kept me out of town all week so the only time I had to process any wood was on the weekends and most folks with full time jobs now seem to think that weekends are for fishing, camping, going on trips or what ever. Most of the time, my wood was harvested by me whenever I could find it. Brought home and bucked into rounds by me, when I found the time. Splitting was done all in one day the first time I could get some help.
This led me to wanting a small processor, just to help speed up things and save some wear and tear on the body. My first thoughts for a processor was just adding a table and saw to my current splitter. The addition of a winch to winch the logs up on the processor became second. I didnt want to have a running gas powered chain saw for bucking so I went looking for a hydraulic saw I could add to my splitter. Thats when things took a big right hand turn. the factory hyd saws where pretty expensive so I went looking for parts to build my own. I came across a couple of surplus hyd motors that would make a heck of a chainsaw with the right amount of oil. They where freebees so I picked them up. Made a call to CRD and they fixed me up with a sprocket to fit the shafts, as well as a bar and 404 chain.
This is where I should have left well enough alone, but a member on this site posted a link to some hyd cyl that would make great splitter cyl. I had to buy out his entire stock of 8 cyl to afford the shipping, but I bought them all, sold 6 for enough to make the two I kept freebees. Hmmm, I had a 20 ft piece of 8x8 hbeam setting out back, so I decided that instead of upgradeing my splitter, to just build a monster splitter that would split, crush, slice n dice anything I could put in it. Started looking for a control valve for the splitter and ran across a 70gpm valve, that was air operated for free. Dug into a dumpter and found a brandnew husco 10 spool valve bank and man the gears in my head started churning. Knuckle boom not out of the question now. I Was setting beside a old saw mill that just happen to be beside the railroad track and the owner came over to talk. The saw mill had been shut down for a few years, everything grownup with weeds, but I asked him if any thing was for sale. Turns out all was for sale and he had a couple of conveyors setting in the weeds. I bought both conveyors for $100 each. So now I had spent the first $200 toward my firewood processor, not counting the $200 or so I had spent on the chainsaw parts. Now I was in need of some sort of power to run the hyd and another member here just happen to have a large double pump he offered up. I did the math and while the pump isnt exactly what I wanted, it was within perimeters to be usable so I paid the shipping and got the pump. Bought a new grapple rotator for $800 and $200 more for a stick of sq tubing to build the knuckle boom. Spent $500 on machine work and have a knuckle boom laying in the floor waiting to be assembled. With a few other parts I have bought, I have maybe $2500 total spent, but heck its going to cost $1000 just to fill the hyd tank and I havent even priced hyd hoses. Also, there are a few parts I am going to have to purchase new because some of those parts just aint common on dozers, back hoes, and normal construction equipment, so not likely to be found in scrap yards.
Meanwhile, I do visit scrap yards and pick up metal and other things I think might be of use. Have bought a few things I decided I couldnt use and managed to sell them at a profit. Bottom line is, I have almost everything I need to build a full blown processor for a fraction of the price of buying even a small factory processor. It should also be noted that I have been planning and scrounging parts for about 5 years now, Not being in the firewood business hasnt put any sense of urgency to completing this build. Medical problems have prevented any shop work for about a year now, but thats alright too. Been to hot to work in the shop this summer anyhow and I'm getting healthy and cool weather is coming on so maybe this winter some of this scrap junk will get put together. I have enough wood on hand right now to last at least the next two winters so that gives me about 2 more years to complete the build.
jrider
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's a damn good size pile for a day but I know for me and probably many other sellers here, there are way too many huge chunks in that pile. If I delivered splits that large I would lose a lot of customers. Not saying you did a bad job just pointing out previously stated concerns about having to resplit when using a processor.
About 4 hrs for two people with my splitter. All wood was bucked before hand and wood was pushed into a pile with tractor when the splitting was done. Between 4 and 5 cord total.
11 hours with 28 people and 4 splitters.
Second year is 24 people 3 splitter for 8 hours
Second year is 24 people 3 splitter for 8 hours
shamusturbo
ArboristSite Member
The owner wanted bigger pieces. The splitter head was high most of the time to get less splits out of the same sized piece of wood. Customer preference. He also sorted out maybe 30 poles under ~8" in diameter and we removed the splitting head and I used a hookeroon to pull them past the splitter head backing plate onto the conveyor. I was sore to say the least. The saw can feed and cut faster then I could spike them and pull them onto the belt and I'm in pretty good shape.
But back to your point, that was our biggest concern buying a processor. If you are selling typical firewood (IMO 16"-18" long and 2"-4" thick) a processor is only taking away the hardest/heaviest splits and you need to resplit 1/3-1/2 of the processed wood. Which is why a kinetic splitter becomes your best friend. We run the wheels off ours. When my sister or cousin is available, they stand at the conveyor and stack big splits into crates and throw the junk into another chemical tote, sold at a discount leaving only finished product dumping off the end of the conveyor.
These are great comments. It sounds as if processing without re-splitting is dream world stuff.
It sounds like it takes a minimum of two to run/feed a processor. And a third person to sort splits. Which means what in terms of man hours per cord?
ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
For the most part there is no resplitting. Would be even less if I fixed my 6 way wedge. I broke a wing off it last winter and haven't gotten around to re-welding so it's a 5 way right now.
I work by myself. Have a hired hand stacking in the truck at times, but I feed and run the processor. Takes me about an hour a cord, sometimes closer to 1.5 hrs all depending on how straight the wood is.
I work by myself. Have a hired hand stacking in the truck at times, but I feed and run the processor. Takes me about an hour a cord, sometimes closer to 1.5 hrs all depending on how straight the wood is.
jrider
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's with your customers and your sized logs
ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
Your customers only take popsicle sticks? The splits that come out are perfect sized for 99.999% of my customers. Everything from small 1"x1" kindling to splits that are maybe 6" or so.... I call those the "overnighters". Once in a while a piece that is a bit large passes though, I just resplit it. Cycle time on the splitter is about 5 seconds so it's not like it's a big deal.
The processor can only fit so large a log so it has nothing to do with my wood. It would make the same splits for you too. If I'm making bundles I usually pick out a bit smaller log so I get more of the smaller splits, I try to have 7-9 pieces of wood in a bundle (generous 1 cu ft).
BUTT in any case it's just a matter of talking to the folks at Blockbuster and they will build what you need. 8 way, 10 way, whatever wedge. The processors are built to order for the most part.
jrider
Addicted to ArboristSite
6" splits are out of the question for most of my customers. Many of them are weekend burners who like to look at the pretty flames and want the fire to die out quickly so they can go out to dinner and not worry about a fire while they are gone. Also, I get most of my wood from a tree service so these are yard trees that most likely didn't grow straight or have a lot of knots from all of their branches and can range from 6"- 30"+ in diameter. Size does have everything to do with your wood for a processor.
I think building a splitter that is going to give all one size splits is a pipe dream. I am making my wedge a 12 way, circle style, capable of splitting a 30 dia round. Now if I center the round up perfect with the wedge and make every split the exact same size, I would still end up with 12 rounds that are 7.5 inches wide, every one of them needing resplitting. I am not shooting for 12 equal size splits. The inner circle should give me 5in wide splits and the everything else will be what ever is left over. With a 30 in dia round, that still 6 pieces that would need resplitting, but thats better than 12 resplits. Fact is most of my wood will not be 30in dia. Since the wedge is height adjustable, I can center the center of the wedge up with the center of the log and split a 12in log into 4 equal sizes. I would end up with bark shaving, and probably a lot of them. I also dont have to center the wedge up with the center of the log, I can offset the wedge center either by raising it up or lowering it down and give my self 4/6/8 splits of similar size, not all the same size, but close enough that nothing needs resplit. Any way you try and do it, you are going to endup with different size splits and some amount of waste. A pic of upper half of my wedge. It hasnt been welded together yet and is just laid up on my welding table waiting for me to finish sharpening the blades.
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shamusturbo
ArboristSite Member
EXACTLY! The markets we are talking about here are polar opposites. I have SOME customers that "don't want a dam load of splinters". But 95% of them do. Even the ones burning for heat. Older people, very white collar people, and campfire people want all "fireplace sized" wood. I get a third of my wood from a tree service, I pay a lot less for it (relative to pipeline or landclearing wood), and it requires quite a bit more labor to make it top dollar firewood.
We are also talking about oaks up to 36" or more in diameter. Its not fun making it into firewood but its sometime what you end up with. My machine can handle a 20" piece of wood, 22" if it is perfectly straight. Its an 8-way wedge so everything coming off of it is 9-10-or even 11" wide. That's more than a couple replits on 1 piece of processed wood.
ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
Not really sure what the argument is. Like I said before, if you need popsicle sticks, have a 100 way wedge made (or whatever it would take). Trying to find a machine that can take huge wood and spit out popsicle sticks just isn't going to be a normal processor. Processor are made to take normal sized wood and turn it into normal sized firewood.
Big ol Yard trees and junk like that isn't processor wood. I don't mess with stuff like that, way too much labor involved, even if it was free.
Even if you had to pass 50% of the wood through again to make popsicle sticks, what would the other option be? Split it with a regular 1 way splitter and split it about 100 times?
Big ol Yard trees and junk like that isn't processor wood. I don't mess with stuff like that, way too much labor involved, even if it was free.
Even if you had to pass 50% of the wood through again to make popsicle sticks, what would the other option be? Split it with a regular 1 way splitter and split it about 100 times?
shamusturbo
ArboristSite Member
There is no argument. Just healthy dialogue/discussion. Just reinforcing that IF you want to sell wood for income/profit THEN you NEED to understand your market. I could sell strictly processed wood but that eliminates a percentage of my customer base and most certainly decreases my prices. We also have totally different wood. There is plenty of original growth oaks and other extremely hard/dense huge diameter wood here. We have very little, if any, of aspen, beech, birch, cottonwood, and spruces.....
A box wedge like cord kings 18 or 28 way wedge would be awesome. But insanely impractical. There is also a model Multitek with a 2 stage wedge "TSS-16" that they market for "packaged" firewood or restaurant style firewood would be ideal. But those are mortgage type processors.
I don't like to mess with the big stuff either but if it ends up in my yard, there is money to be made on it. They are extremely high yield. And there are 1000 ways to attack it. Most middle volume processors have a skidsteer. And farmers/rancher type people too for that matter. An inverted splitter is also very handy. I can split up manageable chunks in no time, listening to the radio, and never leave the seat.
A box wedge like cord kings 18 or 28 way wedge would be awesome. But insanely impractical. There is also a model Multitek with a 2 stage wedge "TSS-16" that they market for "packaged" firewood or restaurant style firewood would be ideal. But those are mortgage type processors.
I don't like to mess with the big stuff either but if it ends up in my yard, there is money to be made on it. They are extremely high yield. And there are 1000 ways to attack it. Most middle volume processors have a skidsteer. And farmers/rancher type people too for that matter. An inverted splitter is also very handy. I can split up manageable chunks in no time, listening to the radio, and never leave the seat.
Neither the cordking or the multitek will handle the 30in dia wood, so even if you do take out the mortgage you wont be able to handle a round over 27in dia. That means you are still back to handleing those big rounds the same way you are already doing them. I know I dont process 30in dia wood all the time, but I do get more than my share of wood that would barely fit thru the cordking or multitek machines. the last wood I split, around 5 cords or so, there wasnt a single log over about 24inches. With almost every tree, the butt cut was at or close to the 24in dia and wouldnt pass thru the smaller machines such as the blockbusters we have discussed. All this means is that you have to chose a machine within your budget, that will handle the majority of the wood you process and either leave the big stuff in the woods, or find an alternative way to process it. I know a guy that has a splitter that will handle a 12ft long log and split it 4 ways. With a way to handle the wood you could sort out the stuff to big for the processor, split it 4ways and then process it as you process your normal size wood. Lots of money invested with such a setup, so it just depends on how much wood you process, how you handle log quality and can you make a profit doing things that way. I know I can get all the great big, junk, cutoffs from loggers that I want, usually for free, and they will load the trailer, but it takes me a lot of time and effort to process it into usable firewood. I only process wood for my own use, I dont have a tight time frame to get my wood gathered and process. If I selling wood, I think a lot of the wood I get would take to much time and labor to process to be profitable. Add a splitter that will handle a 12ft long log and split it 4 ways, a way to load the log to be split on the splitter, and all of a sudden that big ugly log doesnt seem so hard to deal with. Hmmm, I know where a couple of 8ft long cylinders are, I might have to think about this project a little.
Kind of defeats the use of a processor for the single operator with no means of re-splitting, without re-handling the entire pile. I saw a large, heavy duty salt truck box on craigslist with a hydraulic live bottom for cheap but it is a thousand miles away. For now, I'll do what I'm doing splitting rounds. Soon I'll be cutting 8' logs again and rethink this.
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Sandhill, I bought a homemade corn silage trailer with a live bottom for $250 at a sale. Hydraulic drive already setup on it. Just need the time and desire to use it. This one is about 1/2 size of a regular silage wagon. Regular wagons can be bought for under $1000. Treat them careful and they would last years.
Processor is making you money when it's putting wood onto the conveyor, big wood is not putting wood onto the conveyor so that's not the wood you want for a processor.
I still think the most efficient machines for big wood are the vertical splitters. Doesn't require big steel and big engine. Build a roller infeed table and you can get splits onto the conveyor quickly.
Processor is making you money when it's putting wood onto the conveyor, big wood is not putting wood onto the conveyor so that's not the wood you want for a processor.
I still think the most efficient machines for big wood are the vertical splitters. Doesn't require big steel and big engine. Build a roller infeed table and you can get splits onto the conveyor quickly.
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