OWB et. al.
Yeah, I was thinking the only ones making a higher profit margin is the petroleum companies. I know I'm not making a higher profit margin than I was in the 80's. Of course, I'm sure leon will tell me I'm in the wrong business, or doing what I do wrong, or not making a quality product, or... or... or. :msp_rolleyes:
I think the same thing every time I read one of his posts. If he put half the effort into doing something constructive instead of ridiculing everything except his own opinions, he might actually achieve something.
If you present yourself in person the same way you do here, they might have told you a lie just so you'd say 'no' and they could get out of there. And if by chance you took their bait and went for the new burners or boilers, they'd make their time with you worth their effort.
Just because someone doesn't want to install a 2 or 5 or 10 thousand gallon water tank doesn't make the system they DO want any less valid. Some people WANT efficiency, some could care less. And as far as the boilerplate issue goes, yeah, it's probably better than mild steel. But if was all that great, old steam locomotives would never have had to have been rebuilt. Or repaired for that matter. And there were plenty of boiler repair people in the heyday of the steam engine.
I, for one, found RiverRocket's view of the Central Boiler over the Hawken to be pretty interesting. I will never own a Central because I have a hang-up about square fireboxes, but that doesn't mean it's not a great boiler that he'll probably get at least 20 years out of with minimal maintenance. And his point about it being welded on both sides was a valid point. Your condescending reply to him was, "You cannot tell that a boiler is better built unless you can see the interior welds." How do you know he DIDN'T see the interior welds? I HAVE seen the inside and outside of the Hawken boilers and know they are NOT welded on both sides. If I end up with a Hawken, mine WILL be welded on both sides because I'll do it myself. But that's my choice.
RiverRocket; I think you'll be happy with the Central. 3 of my friends have them and one is going on 17 years of 9 months a year service and he just replaced a pump this past winter. That's the only thing he's ever done to it. As for plumbing yours directly into the baseboard, I wouldn't do that myself. I'd rather heat the water in the existing boiler and if something ever happens to your Central, you'll have the option of using your pre-existing boiler as a backup.
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Every business type is different and every business is affected by its location and the need for its service as well as the competition in the same business sector and its location.
Offering what is sensed as ridicule versus offering ones gained knowledge after burning wood and coal after 31 years I think are two different things.
AS far as my issues with my oil supplier are concerned it is a case of my being a 35 yeat customer paying my oil budget bills every month on time with no interuptions in payment for those 35 years and after this last time I have decided that I will no longer be a customer of thiers due to the extremely poor service and terminations of long term employees TO MAINTAIN PROFIT MARGINS which thay have every right to do to maintain thier business model and operate by the parent corporations operating manual.
Yes some folks want efficiency and some dont worry about it because they have an adequate wood supply. There heating needs are valid and what they do with their money is thier personal business. I just hate to see people get into terrible fix in heating a home with these things.
Simple physics and the laws of hydrodynamics favor stored heat energy and always have. Puliverised coal power plants reuse and recirculate thier 1,001 degree de-aerated water supply twice before discharging it back into a water course at 52 degress to conform to the surface water temperature.
NOW as far as steam locomotives are concerned the steam generated is used at higher pressures requiring the boiler vessel and boiler fire tubes to be tested to a certain pressure to be certified as safe for use. These boilers were riveted and gasketed by journeyman boiler makers prior to gas welding of them as well with thses men and women having many many years of building, repairing and rebuilding experience with regard to steam boilers on locomotives.
About steam locomotives:
The water supply for a steam locomotive is limited by the locomotive boiler size and the load placed upon the locomotive by the frieght or passenger loads as well as ruling grades
Boiler water is used up and exhausted to atmosphere when making steam to power the pistons that push the drivers and in turn operate the recipricating air pumps that push combustion air into the hearth of the boiler to make steam that is used to provide heat for the train consists passenger, lounge, dining, sleep and mail cars. If the locomotive had coal stokers the steam also powered the gearing that powered the motors that rotate the augers feeding the boiler.
The water also has to be replenished because it is used up quickly and it must
also be of adequate volume to fill the locomotives water tank behind the coal tender.
The stresses on the fire box and firetubes as well as the rivets which connect the boiler plate to make the reservoir and firebox are under tremendous radial stresses while operating due to the heat loading, cold water condensate recirculation back to the boiler and generation of steam to power the locomotive and provide steam for heating purposes.
A hydronic heating system whether closed or open uses much less water than a steam boiler that is exhausting its steam to atmosphere and it requires wateer more often because the duty cycle is much heavier thana hydronic heating system.
As far as the welds go how do you expect to see the interior welds between the firebox and the exterior walls of the reservoir without a fiber optic camera?
I certainly hope they place all thier weldments in a secure jig when welding the sheets
together. if they heated the steel it would make it easier to weld anyway with less heat stress.
A circular firebox has the advantage of using one continuous long weld and steel stays welded between the interior and exterior of the inner fire box and the exterior shell at a large number of locations surounding the inner fire box tube.
If I have offended you I offer a sincere apology.
