When to use a bore cut

[Jesse Benson]

I have found many posts and videos referring to the plunge/bore cut. When do you use it and what is the benefit. From what I have gathered, it seems to be used a lot with leaners. Can someone please explain the aquired safety with this type of felling. I did however learn how to perform a plunge cut. Also, why would you noodle a peice of wood vs. using a mall to split it? Thanks for the help guys.

 

[stihl sawing]

Can't answer you on the bore cut but i noodle a large round that is too big to load on the truck. Or if it's real knotty and won't split easily with a maul. Mainly do it to get the pieces manageble to handle and it's also kinda fun.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Welcome to the site.

You'l find different opinions as to the usefulness of a bore cut. As I see it, the main purpose is to maintain control of the fall as long as possible, especially on leaners. If you cut straight into the back of a leaner, the weight of the tree can split the trunk, causing what is known as a barberchair - very dangerous as the tree can go anywhere as it falls. I like to use a borecut when I want more control and follow an 80/10/10 rule. Generally, you cut your notch till the width of the cut is about 80% of the diameter, then make the bore and carefully cut towards the notch, leaving a hinge thickness about 10% of the tree diameter. Cut away from the notch and leave a backstrap width about 10% of the tree diameter. Of course, you already have your escape route planned, right?

Drive in a couple wedges just until firmly seated, then cut the backstrap and finish driving the wedges to lift the tree over. If you haven't tried it yet, try cutting the top angle part of the notch first. Then you can see when your horizontal cut meets it.

I noodle bigger rounds when the wood is really tough to split - like when it has branch in the section or is just tough wood like elm or hickory. Just makes it easier.

 

[Jesse Benson]

Thanks

So from what I gather, the bore cut basically allows you to choose (in a sense) when the tree will fall. If the tree is leaning hard you may only cut in a few inches and it will start to go with a regular notch and back cut, resulting in the uncontrolled barber chair deal. When the barber chair deal happens I assume your hinge breaks and the tree can fall where ever it wants. As far as the wedges, I guess that is my next research as I have none and don't know how to use them. I will have to edit my profile to showcase my arsenal. I have a Poulan 42cc, not the Wild thing, but is no different just different plastic, and a MS361. I just bought a RSC chain today and will test it tomorrow. Thanks again guys.

 

[TreePointer]

So from what I gather, the bore cut basically allows you to choose (in a sense) when the tree will fall. If the tree is leaning hard you may only cut in a few inches and it will start to go with a regular notch and back cut, resulting in the uncontrolled barber chair deal. When the barber chair deal happens I assume your hinge breaks and the tree can fall where ever it wants. As far as the wedges, I guess that is my next research as I have none and don't know how to use them. I will have to edit my profile to showcase my arsenal. I have a Poulan 42cc, not the Wild thing, but is no different just different plastic, and a MS361. I just bought a RSC chain today and will test it tomorrow. Thanks again guys.

In a barberchair, the hinge may not break at all, but the wood/trunk splits with the grain, causing a very dangerous situation. Example:

 

[windthrown]

Yah, I learned about bore cutting from the AS guys when I was asking about how to control a leaner (to fall it away from the lean). Also works when you want to leave a strap on a leaning tree until you are done with the face and bore-back cut, and just cut the strap out and it will fall with the saw in hand (as opposed to the saw being in the tree near the hinge and the tree tipping at some unknown time).

As for noodling, I am lazy. Splitting with a maul can take time and force and muscle. When the wood is green I like to noodle cut the rounds. It is really easy on the saw and the cutters stay sharp forever that way. I used to half cut them and then split them with the maul, but now I just finish the noodle cut and it is done. I also noodle cut to feed the chipper if there is a branch or crotch or spump chunk that is too big or twisted. Noodle them in half and they sail right through the Bandit.

 

[rngrchad]

Bore cuts make sense and work great on small timber where leaving a backstrap gives you the option of "walking away" from the tree if a hazard should arise during the cut. On bigger trees however I feel the borecut to be a pain in the ass. I'm not a logger, but I dropped a bunch of small hardwoods back in my college days for about a month and the pro-feller guiding me made me bore-cut small timber, but on larger stuff wanted me to do the notch and regular back-cut. Hope this helps:
small timber: bore cut is a good option.

note: maybe other hardwood loggers can chime in as I am a complete greenhorn.

 

[Jesse Benson]

In a barberchair, the hinge may not break at all, but the wood/trunk splits with the grain, causing a very dangerous situation. Example:

Treepointer, I am not being a troll but what is the danger in your picture? I had a tree do this but I heard the cracking and popping and stepped back. Even then it happened pretty slow. If the hinge does not break, what is the danger? If you can't tell, I am fairly green. I only cut wood to keep the wife and kids warm so most of what I cut is deadfall. This winter I have been clearing my buddies fields of leaning birch and box elder and that is why I am asking questions. Thanks for the pointers

 

[TreePointer]

I'm no expert, but here's what I've learned along the way:

The picture is an example of a tree that doesn't go back too far, but it could be worse. Sometimes there is even less time if you don't inspect the tree very well--check for rot, hollowness, and if there is already a split in the trunk. A barberchair can launch your saw OR EVEN YOU.

Here's a nasty one that they let the wind get:
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=86286&highlight=wind

 

[TreePointer]

I'll also add that using a saw with good power and a sharp chain is important for making faster back cuts, which help to minimize the probability of a barberchair.

 

[Nuzzy]

Treepointer, I am not being a troll but what is the danger in your picture?

I'd say the biggest danger is unpredictability. Barber chairing results in a loss of control of the wood. Worse so is the fact that you now have a lot of weight suspended high in an unstable state. Especially if the tree barber chairs 15 ft high...


Also fwiw, a barber chair can split backwards without warning and pop ya...

 

[Brian VT]

So from what I gather, the bore cut basically allows you to choose (in a sense) when the tree will fall. If the tree is leaning hard you may only cut in a few inches and it will start to go with a regular notch and back cut, resulting in the uncontrolled barber chair deal. When the barber chair deal happens I assume your hinge breaks and the tree can fall where ever it wants. As far as the wedges, I guess that is my next research as I have none and don't know how to use them.

I think the main advantage is that you can get wedges in to a smaller trees. If you don't wedge and you misread the lean then the tree could close up the back cut on your saw, not fall where you intended, or not fall at all.
Ropes are always a good idea too, I think. If you're not trying to make a living at it you can probably spend the extra time in the name of safety. It's much easier and safer to throw a rope on it before you start cutting then after the **** hits the fan.

 

[Burvol]

Did you see Henry Fonda loose an arm in "Sometimes a Great Notion?" that was from a barber chair. That one in the picture is a snack. You should see a big one in big timber, it will kill you or rip off a limb like nothing. I chaired the piss out of a big fir a long time ago (I felt like crap all weekend) when my saw ran out of gas in the back cut with the wind blowing pretty good. She split 32 feet straight up and shot back. Ya, they are nothing to play with.

 

[outofmytree]

All well and good if you are in the open but a barber chair in town puts the tree where you DONT want it... like on the clients house. Good saw man once told me Mr Murphy (of Murphys Law fame) rides around in the truck with all arborists...

I am not a fan of the bore cut unless you are using a guide rope and have pre tensioned it. That is, pick the direction you want the tree to fall and tie your guide rope to the target tree as high as you safely can. Run the rope out along the line of fall and pre tension the rope. You can use muscle power and tie off to another tree if you lack gear or a come-along (dunno what u call them over here) or if you are well set up then a Hobbs would be ideal.

This way, when the strap releases you have sufficient potential energy to overcome the tree's inertia. It really helps when the lean is beyond 10 degrees to the vertical.

 

[smokechase II]

Boring

"You'l find different opinions as to the usefulness of a bore cut. As I see it, the main purpose is to maintain control of the fall as long as possible, especially on leaners. If you cut straight into the back of a leaner, the weight of the tree can split the trunk, causing what is known as a barberchair - very dangerous as the tree can go anywhere as it falls. I like to use a borecut when I want more control and follow an 80/10/10 rule."

=============

The main reason for a bore cut when falling is the reduced barber chair risk.
That is a great reason for the bore. This has it's greatest application on leaners. Particularly heavy green leaners. Please note that there are many other factors, such as wind that can create the same danger.

++++++++++++++

However, with regard to controlling the fall as long as possible this can be somewhat misleading.
To control the fall as long as possible you need a wide face and as much good holding wood in the hinge as possible.
The problem with making a bore back-cut is that it is an educated guess based on similar trees. Contrast this with doing a back-cut from the rear where the faller can see and feel the tree release on a tree by tree basis.
If you were one to just bore the back-cut you're learning curve would be a long y axis figuring this out as you move to different tree conditions and species etc.

**************

With all the variability in woods etc I'd ask that you consider that 80-10-10 rule actually a guide.

The for instance I'm very familiar with is drought conditions, (dryer more brittle wood conditions when the live fuel moistures are below 100%), and varying levels of rot/decay in the trunk.

One of the best times to drop the bore is when rot is present.

============

To pause any rebuttals to this attempt at logic please consider two trees. Virtually identical except for species or live fuel moisture or rot or whatever ONE variable you wish.
Picture how often that one variable could make a difference in the amount of hinge needed to 'control' the fall.
Now add in more variables and .............

If a cutter uses one rule on hinge size and shape and placement they risk not only making a mistake but not learning what the hinge etc should actually be in that set of variables.

All the best

 

[Burvol]

And you know what? All the guys I have known using 44's and 46's in bigger wood strap all of it. The saw cannot keep up with it, even mild leaners. That's no BS. Cut with a torquey saw, you'll use that bore cut like say, 80% less. That's the truth, but since everyone here drinks Stihl kool-aid from Andreas' you know what, it won't ever change.

 

[smokechase II]

I'd like to second that motion yer honor

"I am not a fan of the bore cut unless you are using a guide rope and have pre tensioned it."

The rope thing is the same physics as a heavy leaner or high wind event.

This is a great time for a boring back-cut.

 

[smokechase II]

My Father-in-Law

"I'll also add that using a saw with good power and a sharp chain is important for making faster back cuts, which help to minimize the probability of a barberchair."

============

The way they used to teach barber chair prevention back in the day was that the cutter would do a triangle back-cut to start, making sure to nip the corners, then put the petal to the metal and 'get it done'.
If you got weak knees during this power cut and ran it would be your own fault.

============

This isn't real bright today.

============

To tell yourself how much hinge is needed when boring a serious leaner start the bore well away from the hinge. Work toward the hinge somewhat cautiously feeling for any pinching of the bar. Generally cut a little more while feeling with the saw floating back and forth. When you feel a little more pinching STOP.

On the strap to be left in the rear.
Leave one that will not pull up a root into your face/escape path etc.

============

On a heavy green leaner or similiar risk tree you are not trying to control the fall as long as possible. That, directionaly, has already been decided. If you were to do anything to slow down a fall on one of these trees you would be increasing the barber chair risk.
Control is not the issue.
Prompt complete release is.

===========

On the worst of these trees please consider:
1) Stepping away,
2) A strong chain wrap(s),
3) A cautious bore from the center of the face prior to back-cutting.

 

[outofmytree]

"I am not a fan of the bore cut unless you are using a guide rope and have pre tensioned it."

The rope thing is the same physics as a heavy leaner or high wind event.

This is a great time for a boring back-cut.

Sorry smoke I didnt get this? It may just be the bourbon of course. I was saying that I do not like using the bore cut at all. If I do use this technique I will only do so when I have pre attached a guide rope as outlined in my post. Did that make more sense? Or am I just schmozzled...

 

[outofmytree]

One of the best times to drop the bore is when rot is present.

Again pardon me working through a sour mash fog but do you mean that you DO NOT use a bore cut when you know or believe that the tree has significant rot or decay?