Worker's Comp- You have questions, I have answers

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cjnspecial

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I work for a comp carrier locally and want to help fellow members save money, work safer and become more profitable. Anything from safety, rates, audits, claims, whatever..I can help you out or point you in the right direction.
(I do not sell insurance or want to sell insurance, btw).
 
Where do you find a cheaper rate in Ga. ???? Private or maybe state ???

If your a small company and fall into the assigned risk pool, your stuck like chuck with about a 40% rate($40 per $100 in payroll). The bigger the company, better claims experience, # years experience, safety controls, etc all increase your chances of getting out of the assigned risk pool and with a premier carrier.

Here are the rates of all the companies that write tree services in Georgia with the minimum premium beside it:
ACE AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY 20.14 $750
ACE FIRE UNDERWRITERS INSURANCE COMPANY 18.13 $750
ACE INDEMNITY INSURANCE COMPANY 23.16 $750
ACE PROPERTY AND CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 27.66 $750
ACIG INSURANCE COMPANY 16.29 $000
ADVANTAGE WORKERS COMPENSATION INSURANCE COMPANY 17.78 $750
AIG CASUALTY COMPANY 23.40 $750
AIU INSURANCE COMPANY 19.89 $750
ALL AMERICA INSURANCE COMPANY 19.41 $500
AMCOMP ASSURANCE CORPORATION 18.68 $1000
AMCOMP PREFERRED INSURANCE COMPANY 25.6 $1000
AMERICAN CASUALTY COMPANY OF READING PENNSYLVANIA 12.11 $750
AMERICAN ECONOMY INSURANCE COMPANY 16.25 $750
AMERICAN FIRE & CASUALTY COMPANY 18.72 $750
AMERICAN HOME ASSURANCE COMPANY 23.40 $750
AMERICAN INTERNATIONAL SOUTH INSURANCE COMPANY 15.44 $750
AMERICAN INTERSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY 12.33 $0
AMERISURE INSURANCE COMPANY 19.38 $750
AMERISURE MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 22.48 $750
ARGONAUT INSURANCE COMPANY 19.67 $750
ARGONAUT MIDWEST INSURANCE COMPANY 16.23 $750
ASSOCIATED INDUSTRIES INSURANCE COMPANY, INC. 15.74 $750
ASSOCIATION INSURANCE COMPANY 18.68 $750
ATLANTIC INSURANCE COMPANY 13.18 $750
BANKERS STANDARD INSURANCE COMPANY 18.13 $750
BITUMINOUS CASUALTY CORPORATION 19.09 $750
BITUMINOUS FIRE AND MARINE INSURANCE COMPANY 16.23 $750
BRIDGEFIELD CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 19.12 $750
BROTHERHOOD MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 21.12 $750
CANAL INSURANCE COMPANY 25.16 $850
CENTRAL MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 22.05 $500
CINCINNATI CASUALTY COMPANY (THE) 19.22 $750
CINCINNATI INDEMNITY COMPANY (THE) 24.22 $750
CINCINNATI INSURANCE COMPANY 19.22 $750
COLUMBIA NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY 21.45 $750
COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY INSURANCE COMPANY 26.91 $750
CONTINENTAL CASUALTY COMPANY 18.50 $750
EASTGUARD INSURANCE COMPANY 15.73 $750
ELECTRIC INSURANCE COMPANY 15.54 $0
EMPLOYERS INSURANCE COMPANY OF WAUSAU 24.53 $750
EVEREST NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY 19.14 $1000
EVEREST SECURITY INSURANCE COMPANY 14.84 $1000
FCCI INSURANCE COMPANY 22.14 $750
FEDERATED MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 23.60 $750
FEDERATED SERVICE INSURANCE COMPANY 21.24 $750
FIRST LIBERTY INSURANCE CORPORATION 18.63 $750
FRANKENMUTH MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 18.76 $1000
GRANITE STATE INSURANCE COMPANY 23.40 $750
GRAPHIC ARTS MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 20.18 $750
GREAT AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY 15.58 $750
GREAT WEST CASUALTY COMPANY 23.72 $750
GREATER NEW YORK MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 18.71 $750
GUIDEONE ELITE INSURANCE COMPANY 11.53 $750
GUIDEONE MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 14.41 $750
HARLEYSVILLE MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 20.69 $750
HARTFORD ACCIDENT AND INDEMNITY COMPANY 15.06 $750
HARTFORD CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 20.78 $750
HARTFORD FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY 18.19 $750
HARTFORD INSURANCE COMPANY OF THE MIDWEST 31.18 $750
HARTFORD INSURANCE COMPANY OF THE SOUTHEAST 23.39 $750
HARTFORD UNDERWRITERS INSURANCE COMPANY 28.57 $750
INDEMNITY INSURANCE COMPANY OF NORTH AMERICA 18.13 $750
INSURANCE COMPANY OF NORTH AMERICA 23.16 $750
INSURANCE COMPANY OF THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA (THE) 23.40 $750
KEY RISK INSURANCE COMPANY 16.61 $750
LIBERTY INSURANCE CORPORATION 12.94 $750
LIBERTY MUTUAL FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY 14.82 $750
LIBERTY MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 23.51 $750
LM INSURANCE CORPORATION 10.31 $750
MIDDLESEX INSURANCE COMPANY 17.62 $750
MIDWEST EMPLOYERS CASUALTY COMPANY 18.39 $750
MONROE GUARANTY INSURANCE COMPANY 29.19 $750
NATIONAL AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY 12.89 $750
NATIONAL FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY OF HARTFORD 16.15 $750
NATIONAL TRUST INSURANCE COMPANY 16.61 $750
NATIONAL UNION FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY OF PITTSBURGH, PA. 23.40 $750
NATIONWIDE MUTUAL FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY 20 $750
NATIONWIDE MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 20 $750
NEW HAMPSHIRE INSURANCE COMPANY 19.89 $750
OHIO CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 33.55 $750
OHIO SECURITY INSURANCE COMPANY 28.66 $750
OLD DOMINION INSURANCE COMPANY 16.59 $750
PACIFIC EMPLOYERS INSURANCE COMPANY 33.20 $750
PATRIOT GENERAL INSURANCE COMPANY 13.95 $750
PENN MILLERS INSURANCE COMPANY 14.41 $750
PENNSYLVANIA NATIONAL MUTUAL CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 22.15 $750
PROVIDENCE WASHINGTON INSURANCE COMPANY 19.65 $750
REPUBLIC-FRANKLIN INSURANCE COMPANY 18.10 $750
SAFETY FIRST INSURANCE COMPANY 24.22 $9257
SAFETY NATIONAL CASUALTY CORPORATION 18.50 $7106
SECURITY NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY 11.21 $750
SELECTIVE INSURANCE COMPANY OF AMERICA 16.30 $750
SELECTIVE INSURANCE COMPANY OF SOUTH CAROLINA 17.61 $750
SELECTIVE INSURANCE COMPANY OF THE SOUTHEAST 20.16 $750
SELECTIVE WAY INSURANCE COMPANY 12.50 $750
SENTINEL INSURANCE COMPANY, LTD. 24.68 $750
SENTRY INSURANCE A MUTUAL COMPANY 20.37 $750
SENTRY SELECT INSURANCE COMPANY 19.67 $750
SOUTHERN INSURANCE COMPANY OF VIRGINIA 26.93 $750
SOUTHERN TRUST INSURANCE COMPANY 18.98 $750
ST. PAUL FIRE AND CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 15.04 $750
ST. PAUL GUARDIAN INSURANCE COMPANY 12.03 $750
ST. PAUL MERCURY INSURANCE COMPANY 15.04 $750
ST. PAUL PROTECTIVE INSURANCE COMPANY 16.94 $750
STATE FARM FIRE & CASUALTY COMPANY 19.73 $750
TOKIO MARINE AND NICHIDO FIRE INSURANCE CO., LTD. 15.44 $750
TRANS PACIFIC INSURANCE COMPANY 15.44 $750
TRANSPORTATION INSURANCE COMPANY 18.50 $750
TRINITY UNIVERSAL INSURANCE COMPANY 11.21 $750
TRINITY UNIVERSAL INSURANCE COMPANY OF KANSAS, INC. 11.21 $750
TWIN CITY FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY 25.98 $750
ULLICO CASUALTY COMPANY 18.71 $750
UNIVERSAL UNDERWRITERS INSURANCE COMPANY 12.45 $750
UTICA MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 22.42 $750
VALLEY FORGE INSURANCE COMPANY 16.15 $750
VININGS INSURANCE COMPANY 17.30 $750
WAUSAU BUSINESS INSURANCE COMPANY 20.69 $750
WAUSAU GENERAL INSURANCE COMPANY 17.97 $750
WAUSAU UNDERWRITERS INSURANCE COMPANY 21.53 $750
WEST AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY 23.76 $750
WILLIAMSBURG NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY 11.5455 $750
YORK INSURANCE COMPANY 17.77 $750
 
Do you have a similar list for SC?

Only thing I can find is the assigned risk rate of 38% from 2006 :confused:
AFAIK SC is still an open market, the Insurance companies MUST file their rates with the state and it's public information. So worst case is the states insurance or comp commission can send you a list of rates by company.
I'll do a little more research at work tomorrow and see what I can dredge up.
 
Thank you for the Ga. list. I'll do some inquires & then approach our local agent. He only represents 2 providers at this time. The current 48 per cent rate makes , being competetive, diffficult. Again, we appreciate your efforts !
 
Nice post

Great post CJNSPECIAL, Any idea where would I could find a list like that for Virginia?
 
how 'bout ohio?

Yeah! I'll second that!


Sorry fellas, Ohio is what's called a monopolistic state, meaning the state(or state agency) writes ALL comp policies for all businesses operating in that state.
Only option is maybe become part of a PEO and because your part of a larger risk pool, you *usually* get a break on your rates. On the downside, the PEO gets a cut of your business.
 
Great post CJNSPECIAL, Any idea where would I could find a list like that for Virginia?

Assigned risk is 17.28 % effective 4/1/08 with a minimum premium of $750.

There is a link to the loss cost multipliers. In general, the lower the LCM, the lower the rate will be. The overall loss cost for virginia for code 0106(Tree pruning) is 9.36% so if you see a company with a LCM of 1.5 the expected rate is about 14% (9.36*1.5). Keep in mind the the overall loss cost is an average from all the insurance companies in VA and each companies loss cost can vary GREATLY from the average.

http://www.scc.virginia.gov/division/boi/webpages/inspagedocs/wcmultiplierlist.pdf

If you want to see the exact rates, you have to make an appointment with the Bureau.
http://www.scc.virginia.gov/division/boi/webpages/reviewrates.htm
 
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When you state lowest policy amount your reffering to 1 man operation thats the owner exempting himself from coverage?
 
Sorry fellas, Ohio is what's called a monopolistic state, meaning the state(or state agency) writes ALL comp policies for all businesses operating in that state.
Only option is maybe become part of a PEO and because your part of a larger risk pool, you *usually* get a break on your rates. On the downside, the PEO gets a cut of your business.
yep, the first year you pay the State's rate. After you have been in the system for a year, you will get a lot of offers for group rating. My rate went from something like 40% to close to 10%. They are now saying that those under the group ratings are not paying enough, so they'll likely go up a little, but at least they will be reasonable.
 
When you state lowest policy amount your reffering to 1 man operation thats the owner exempting himself from coverage?

Yep, it's the absolute lowest cost for a policy even if you are excluded (or include and make virtually no money) and no payroll or maybe a very, very small amount of payroll.
I think you don't need comp if there are 3 or less employees but I'm not an attorney so it's best to check out all the angles of not having comp (from a liability/legal standpoint) with an agent or attorney familiar with your state's laws.
 
Oh boy, have I been waiting for this thread!

My company has only been in business for about 8 months. My partner has 10 years experience in the tree business, but never owned a company.

We have several guys we use hear and there, as we have been doing this on the weekends, mostly, until we had enough business to go full time. Next week we are going full time. I am a computer geek by trade, and will not be quitting my regular job in the forseeable future, but will help out on tree jobs when needed or am available.

We have no employees, and plan to 1099 our help initially. People I have spoken to, including my Dad (owns a car repair shop) say that I should have WC even though I don't have any employees and it is not required by Virginia(?) law (until I have 3 full time employees). I suppose this is because my help could possibly sue me for a job related injury.

One provider I spoke to, when geting my GL insurance, said she wouldn't write my GL without a WC policy also, even though I had no employees. She said something about "Statutory employee".

Questions:
1. What is a "statutory employee in the WC context?

2. Would a "statutory employee" on my WC policy cover any guy that got hurt, employee or "contractor" (1099 guy)?

3. Can my partner and I be covered under the WC policy? (My Dad said he went to the doctor on WC once, even though he is the owner of the business)

4. If I want myself and my partner to be covered, do I need to do anythign special? Do I need to specifically put us on the policy, or does that come under the "statutory employee" thing?

I will certainly have more questions, but can we start with those?

Thanks,
Chris
 
Oh boy, have I been waiting for this thread!

My company has only been in business for about 8 months. My partner has 10 years experience in the tree business, but never owned a company.

We have several guys we use hear and there, as we have been doing this on the weekends, mostly, until we had enough business to go full time. Next week we are going full time. I am a computer geek by trade, and will not be quitting my regular job in the forseeable future, but will help out on tree jobs when needed or am available.

We have no employees, and plan to 1099 our help initially. People I have spoken to, including my Dad (owns a car repair shop) say that I should have WC even though I don't have any employees and it is not required by Virginia(?) law (until I have 3 full time employees). I suppose this is because my help could possibly sue me for a job related injury.

One provider I spoke to, when geting my GL insurance, said she wouldn't write my GL without a WC policy also, even though I had no employees. She said something about "Statutory employee".

Questions:
1. What is a "statutory employee in the WC context?

2. Would a "statutory employee" on my WC policy cover any guy that got hurt, employee or "contractor" (1099 guy)?

3. Can my partner and I be covered under the WC policy? (My Dad said he went to the doctor on WC once, even though he is the owner of the business)

4. If I want myself and my partner to be covered, do I need to do anythign special? Do I need to specifically put us on the policy, or does that come under the "statutory employee" thing?

I will certainly have more questions, but can we start with those?

Thanks,
Chris

The law doesn't require it but you could be opening yourself and/or your business to huge liability by not having comp(medical bills can run into the millions if long term care is involved) and it's responsible to want to want to help out your workers if they are injured and can't work, IMO.
To answer your questions:
1. Statutes are laws so you may hire a "contract" worker that you 1099 and he is not considered an "employee" by IRS standards but is considered an employee according the to the workers compensation statutes. Example:
Homeowner hires you to cut trees and you hire subcontractors to do the work so the relationship is: Homeowner>You>Subs. Who is the statutory employer of the Subs employees provided the subs do not have their own comp policy? The homeowner is not because he is not in the trade, business or occupation of cutting trees. You are considered the statutory employer because you are the professional he hired and are responible for ensuring the work is completed.
2. It depends. Generally, comp covers people you hire to perform work within your trade, business or occupation. Virginia has some exceptions your agent or attorney can better cover because case law will have defined the paramaters of those exceptions.
3. Yes
4. If you are a partnership, you and your partner would be automatically excluded from your policy unless you sign a written form electing to be covered.

Here's a good link:
http://www.vwc.state.va.us/employers_guide.htm

They list some exception on there but I really, really caution you becase VA case law interprets and defines those exceptions and it can get tricky. Misinterpreting some of those items can cost you big money in insurance premiums.
 
Awesome Thread! It's great for us new guys to see what we got comin before we go to the insurance man. Thanks for making it easy to understand. I am a new operation and plan on having at least one full time employee this year.

1 So I'm gonna pay 40% or so on him for the first year anyway Yes?

2 I have major medical insurance, 10,000 deducible. Should I cover myself under wcomp? I'm not gonna show much salary for myself. How much additional will it cost besides the 40% rate?

3 If I get minor injury is it better to go through work comp or just pay out of pocket? I nicked my leg once and payed $300 for stitches, my fault anyway.

4 I thought I heard you get the premium money, the $750, back at the end of year. Or is that the cost of writing the policy even if not used?

Thanks again, very helpful!!
 
Awesome Thread! It's great for us new guys to see what we got comin before we go to the insurance man. Thanks for making it easy to understand. I am a new operation and plan on having at least one full time employee this year.

1 So I'm gonna pay 40% or so on him for the first year anyway Yes?

2 I have major medical insurance, 10,000 deducible. Should I cover myself under wcomp? I'm not gonna show much salary for myself. How much additional will it cost besides the 40% rate?

3 If I get minor injury is it better to go through work comp or just pay out of pocket? I nicked my leg once and payed $300 for stitches, my fault anyway.

4 I thought I heard you get the premium money, the $750, back at the end of year. Or is that the cost of writing the policy even if not used?

Thanks again, very helpful!!

1. If you are new in business you will probably fall into the assigned risk pool and the rate is about 25%.
2. Maybe, you would have to do the math to see which would be better for you. If you make $50,000 then your premium just to cover you would be $12,500. In most cases you are better off excluding yourself, buying a health insurance policy and a disability policy like AFLAC.
3. The more claims you report, the worse it looks to your insurance carrier and they will jack your rates up eventually. In general, you're better off paying them out of pocket but check with your insurance company because some of them require you to report claims you pay out of pocket.
4. Nope. The carrier keeps the minimum premium to cover their cost of writing the policy, paper, labor, overhead, etc. You get a big goose egg back.
**On a side note, insurance companies most common way to evaluate an account is by looking at it's loss ratio. It's basically the amount of money they have paid out in claims for your account divided by the amount of money you have paid them. Example: if over 3 years they have paid out $20,000 in claims and you have paid in $10,000 in premium....your account has a 200% loss ratio. Which is bad, they lost 2 dollars for every dollar they took in. To help prepare for future expexted losses, they are gong to jack your rate up sky high.
There is also a saying in insurance:"Frequency breeds severity." That means that if your business has a bunch of small claims, it's only a matter of time before your business has a big claim. If you report 5 claims where the workers nick their legs and require stitches. The underwriter is going to look at that and think it's only a matter of time before someone cuts theirself seriously. From there, the underwriter will require your workers wear chaps or they will tack on an extra 20-50% to your premium. They could possibly drop your coverage as well.

My point is :Try to minimize the risk of injuries by wearing PPE, hiring reputable people and using common sense. If you don't, you better have deep pockets.
 
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This is a great thread.

I work in WA state. Here the state department of Licensing and Industries takes care of worker's comp. I pay an hourly rate based on the work. If we are doing tree work or using a chipper, I report that and pay about $2.25 per hour per employee regardless of salary. If we are landscaping its about $1. 25/ hour/ employee. The employee pays a few cents per hour as their contribution.

Are there other states that use the gov't instead of a private insurance company?

My friend is in IL and wants to go legit. What do rates look like that?

Thanks!!
 
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