Craigslist Chrusader

This guy just got screwed one time two many. I think I have seen his post about 3 times on Chraigslist. I hope people will learn.

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/for/929168585.html

With all due respect to those who run honest businesses the average firewood jockey around here is a laid off factory worker looking for beer money and he doesn't know cottonwood from red oak nor green from dry nor a cord from a board. Farmers and land owners don't help matters when they let the goofs cut anything that they themselves would not waste the time to cut up. "Appalachian hardwoods" in the ads to me means, cotton, sycamore and willow. "season" means yup, it is firewood season all right. They used to sell by pick up loads and the state chimed in with new laws about 10 years ago to protect the feeble. Still yet, I cannot believe they they do all the work to produce a cord, then sell it for a C note. or $20 more delivered anywhere in the county. PT Barmum said there is a sucker born every minute and as long as that remains a fact there will be people like PT who will gladly take them for a ride.

There are 2 types of people that post here it seems to me. Those who have bought cord-wood and those who have never had to "buy" firewood based on growing up so that you always made your own firewood.

I have paid for firewood before delivered to my house....several times. By about the third time being a dissatisfied buyer I decided I wouldn't buy ever again.

It hurts me a little bit because I know there are soo many honest and hardworking folks trying to provide for their family out there that do a good job. But it seems to me that for every one of them, there are at least two jackasses trying to make a buck who don't give a care about their customers let alone their own self respect. There will always be lazy and direspectful people on earth, but for god's sake, let's make sure most of them live outside this country!

Good post Butch.

To be honest this laid off factory worker hasn't had one complaint yet, and as a matter of fact I have had a few repeat customers. And I could be collecting unemployment but instead I've just been cutting firewood, so my beer money is hard earned and well deserved as far as I'm concerned.
I agree though, considering the mixed sugar maple, red oak, and cherry $35 half face cords I was selling were close to being as big as some of the $55 to $90 supposed 'face cords' I've seen other people selling.

the thing is though when do people mesure the cord? when its logs? when its stacked? when its cut but not split? when its all piled up in a truck?
its all different, if you measure the cords in 8 foot logs and then cut a split and stack its not going to be the same cord you started with.

Zackman1801 said:

the thing is though when do people mesure the cord? when its logs? when its stacked? when its cut but not split? when its all piled up in a truck?
its all different, if you measure the cords in 8 foot logs and then cut a split and stack its not going to be the same cord you started with.

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Oh, please. Not this again!


A cord is a legally defined unit of measurement. It's not open to differences of opinion. It's not 8 foot logs, and it's not cut but not split. Here it is the way Maine defines it:

"A standard cord is a unit of measure of wood products 4 feet wide, 4 feet high and 8 feet long, or its equivalent, containing 128 cubic feet when the wood is ranked and well stowed. "

I gave that straight from Maine's statutes, since you're from Maine, and you can read it for yourself here:

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/Statutes/10/title10sec2302.html


That's actually the most vague definition of a cord that I've seen, and I've read quite a few. Most legal definitions specify split wood or at least, tightly stacked wood. Note that your state's definition covers gaps in the stack.

"Any voids that will accommodate a stick, log or bolt of average dimensions to those in that pile shall be deducted from the measured volume. "

It also mentions a "loose cord", which is pretty silly, I think.


Also, since you're in Maine, you should be aware that the state graciously grants you the privilege of selling & buying wood using other measurements, when agreed to by both parties.

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/Statutes/10/title10sec2363-A.html

However, this does not change the definition of a cord of wood, as stated above.


On the other hand, a "face cord" is whatever anybody wants to make it, in most states, since it has no legal definition. If somebody sells you a face cord, and delivers a bundle of sticks by hand and calls it a face cord, he's right. That's a face cord if he calls it one. In Maine, a face cord is defined, but even there the definition is wide open to interpretation! (See the statute cited above.)

nametrux said:

This guy just got screwed one time two many. I think I have seen his post about 3 times on Chraigslist. I hope people will learn.

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/for/929168585.html

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I dont know that I blame the guy for doing this. To many people buy and sell wood and don't know what to expect or deliver when dealing in cords. It is a lot of wood. But for those knowing what to expect anything less than a cord is not enough for what they are paying for.

If the customer is better educated the seller better be catching on to this and acting accordingly. If he wants to keep selling or not making a second trip to makeup the difference.

That crusader if successful will just make the cost of firewood more expensive for everybody ....and who's to say his measurements/calculations are correct? 8 out of 10 dealers here are just temp guys that are laid off of work and are cutting wood for additional income.

Yeah it sucks to be ripped off but WTF...does he sit down to pee? he can't talk to people?

complaints and whiners....cheats and scammers.......i see government regulations coming in the very near future.

When I put my add for firewood on craigs I included a buyers guide. If any body wants to see it http://cleveland.craigslist.org/for/901486185.html let me know if link works!

Alright, hold on, hold on now..

People are quite quick to pass judgement. Alright, MGA and Savageactor7.....

If you even read the post, I don't have any idea how you can say that I am whining, My post stated facts to try to protect my neighbors from these good ole boy scammers.

I am not wealthy, and I burn wood to keep the price of my utilities down. If I buy a cord of wood for 160.00, then I save money. If I buy a cord of wood for 160.00 and get 2/3 of it, I don't.

I went with the seller I chose because his girlfriend sent me an e-mail in response to an add I posted that requested a CORD of wood. I let them know that I was perfectly aware of what a cord of wood was by the standard of measurements. He told me that he was on his way to the city and had a load of wood with him. I asked him repeatedly if it was a CORD of wood and he said yes. He also said that if I was not happy with the load, he would make it right. I was at work. I allowed my wife to recieve the wood. When I got home the next day I e-mailed and called him, it was not a cord. I continued to e-mail and call him for over a week before approaching the MO D.O.A. Both the seller and I were aware that this was an honor system agreement, and I stated this before he delivered the wood. I was continually assured that the deal would be right or he would make it right.

So after I was avoided for over a week, I found the contact for the division of weights and measures for MO. I e-mailed them. The following Thursday, I was contacted and advised an inspector would come out, measure the wood and pursue the matter. I was at work, and could not give all the info he requested. He gave me his phone # and asked I call him on Monday, that would be the earliest an inspector was avail. I e-mailed the seller and told him my approach. Over that weekend, I got an e-mail from the seller. He said he had been in the hospital with his girlfriend and didn't get any of my messages. He apologized and said he would make it right. I disregarded the DOA.

3 More days have passed. I have been calling the seller, with no answer. I have e-mailed him repeatedly, and I get responses, but my message is cut from the reply and he acts like he hasn't recieved my e-mail. Soooo. What would you guys do?

The cost of firewood is obviously more expensive for ME already if I am not getting what I agree to pay for. My actions are to put honesty back into liars. If any of you are afraid of people like me knowing the truth, then you must have something to hide. I've gotten a dozen responses from the 2 posts I've put up, all in STL area, most from people that have either been ripped off, or didn't know whether or not they were being treated fairly. I have also gotten posts from people defending themselves. Honest people don't have to defend themselves.

One last thing, Sometimes I pee sitting down while I'm taking a ####. Do you stand up during a Bowel Movement, then urinate, then sit back down? Sounds messy. That is all.

Thanks Mark for bringing this to my attn. I always enjoy a good forum.

Posting the contents for later refference.

Firewood, Don't get burned buying firewood! - $1 (Missouri) - $1 (Missouri)
Reply to: [email protected] [?]
Date: 2008-11-21, 8:51PM CST


Im tired of being scammed buying firewood. People say the are selling you a certain amount of wood and then dont give you the amount you pay for. Other states have strict regulation on the buying and selling of firewood based on the standard of measurements. It is time that we make sure Missouri does the same. I have attached info here. If I order a dozen donuts and only receive 9, I am not going to pay for a dozen. If I order a set of tires for my car and only receive 3, I am not going to pay for 4. I used to get a cord PLUS when I would order a cord, and it was usually around 85.00. The past 3 years I have bought from various craigslisters and have never received the right amount. Most recently I paid 160.00 for a CORD of wood and received about 2/3rds of a cord. THIS IS NOT RIGHT AND I AM GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! The first link is to the Missouri Department of Agriculture. The others are other states info on the legal sale of firewood. The MO D.O.A. will send an inspector out if you are cheated. They will try to have the person make it right, and there are other consequences.

http://www.mda.mo.gov/wm/wm_staff.htm

http://www.co.el-dorado.ca.us/ag/burned.html

http://www.evansvillegov.org/Index.aspx?page=352

http://oregon.gov/ODA/MSD/docs/pdf/avoid_burned.pdf

http://blogs.courant.com/george_gombossy/2008/10/firewood-dealers-shortchanging.html"

http://www.ksmu.org/content/view/1432/66/

http://www.rimoftheworld.net/columns/neufeld/avoid_getting"





Location: Missouri
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 929168585

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According to the links he provided there shouldn't be much question about the dimensions of a cord.

I realize he is angry that the price of wood has gone up. He is angrier that what he is paying more for, he is getting less wood. Even though it is still being called a cord what he is getting in no longer a true cord of firewood.

To me the price of my firewood reflects the current cost of living. If it takes me a day to harvest 2 cords, 2 or 3 more days split and stack it and most of a year to set on it till it is seasoned I have invested 20-30 hours of work into that wood months ago. Not to mention the fuel, equipment, depreciation of my truck for mileage and use and then tying up space storing it so the wood is dry enough to burn properly.

Of course it is going to go up. Everything else has including the cost of groceries to feed my family. I don't compare my wood or the cost of it to what others are selling. I see plenty of PU loads that are fresh cut being sold as firewood, for cheap. If the guy selling it only wants $50 a PU load for what took him all day to cut, split and haul more power to him. My time and saws are worth more to me than $30 a day after expenses.

One local guy actually got mad at me for selling mine seasoned for $225 a cord in the yard. Said I was so expensive that I was driving people away from wood as an option. I tried reasoning with him if anything I was doing him a favor selling mine for 2x + what he was getting because he was going to sell more at his priice of $50 a PU load because it was less money. He was ready to get into a fist fight over the deal and I told him my time was worth more working than brawling in the street over it.

If I could live comfortably and be happy working for peanuts instead of folding money I still doubt I would do it. I say anybody cutting wood and selling it green for $50 a PU load or $100 a cord is doing the rest of us a disservice with an inferior product/service and it is the customer that is getting shafted in the end. Firewood is a service not just a final product.

I have always given a little more than a cord when I sell the stuff. I have always found that if you are honest, and keep your word, people will come back. I have been selling around 15 cords of wood a year now for a few years and have had the same people calling me back every year. I not had one complaint. If it is seasoned 9 months, list it as such, a year and a half, be honest, and charge an extra 50 for the TLC...

savageactor7 said:

That crusader if successful will just make the cost of firewood more expensive for everybody ....and who's to say his measurements/calculations are correct? 8 out of 10 dealers here are just temp guys that are laid off of work and are cutting wood for additional income.

Yeah it sucks to be ripped off but WTF...does he sit down to pee? he can't talk to people?

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I don't see how it will cost more. If the weekend guy is selling less wood for less money the overall cost should be about the same. If the weekend guy is selling MORE wood for the same or less money he is keeping the price at starvation wages. Now, if he is selling far less wood and getting the same price as mine he is doing me a favor. Sooner or later the buyer will get to me and get his moneys worth for what I offer and call back again when they need more.

I realise some guys are trying to put groceries on the table during hard times. I don't run them down for it or try not to do it. My living doesnt rely on firewood sales. Makes for a better Christmass around here but not much difference in the bill money. I burn wood and sell the excess I gather. I end up with mixed wood in my stacks and the straight run stuff goes in the stacks I sell. I have a few regulars that know I am bringing them good dry seasoned wood that is exactly what I describe.

For The Crusader

Welcome to the site. I sent you an e-mail but it didn't go. This a great site and if you hang out here you can gain a great amount of knowledge. Hope ypu have fun here. Welcome again.

Good on ya Crusader. I don't buy firewood but if I ever do I will expect to get what I pay for.

I always post one line in my craigslist adds and it gets peoples attention and that is "Nomatter what ANYONE says, you can NOT fit a cord of wood in a 1/2 ton pickup truck." alot of my wood sales on craigslist the people say that they bought a cord from someone and didnt think it was right so they decided to try me


http://toledo.craigslist.org/grd/926826639.html my ad if anyone wants to see it

We get these warning posts often in the Columbus, Ohio CL...

Firewood, landscaping, trades services, hookers...you name it.

My favorites begin with something like..."after heating my home for 20 years with wood, this is all you need to know about buying wood on CL".

Guy will go on to tell you how wood seasoned two years is still very green...reputable dealers season their wood for a minimum of four...if you're paying more than $XXX.00 you're getting ripped off... don't buy from this guy or that guy, name dropping all the while. Cutting and pasting with abandon...

We've become immune to that here...except the hookers of course...gotta' keep abreast of that situation...

my ad if anyone wants to see it

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Now that's what I expect to see if I buy a cord of wood from a man....a big truck full of wood. Nice.

St.Louis Craigslist

We advertise on St.Louis Craigslist as well. What gets me is that we're located on the eastside of the river and mention that in our ad. You get replies from people wanting you to deliver firewood a 100 plus miles away for the same price.
Some folks just don't get it if they paid a certain price for a cord of wood 2 years ago they expect the same now.
Gas prices have doubled since then and now they have decreased for the time being. Who's loss,who's gain?
If you're selling "seasoned" wood then the wood you processed was more than likely during the high fuel period,personally we'll let the wood rot before we give it away just to compete with a cut-rate cutter.
We burn our own wood as well and provide a service to a few Tree Service businesses and process wood from our own property from storms, development, etc. so we have plenty of extra wood on hand that we couldn't burn in a lifetime.
Our theory is why let the "good" wood go to waste by dumping it in a ditch,chipping, or burning.
Like others have mentioned it's extra income for our business in the off season and not a means of support with no disregard to the laid-off person trying to make ends meet. Times are getting tough and people are getting desperate around the holidays especially.
This is a buyer beware problem also and government intervention with regulation will add taxes and increase costs as well.
So our message to the buyer is take the time to stack the wood in measurement or pay the provider to do so. We will deliver the wood stacked on our truck and provide the tape measure and calculator for your own decision making process from the wood we deliver.
However this is a lawsuit happy society and we do not allow any customers on our property for safety concerns and insurance reasons. All it takes is one time and you know the rest of the story.
How many of you allow people on your property to pick up firewood?