Ouch! tree partially cut in error...

[EdK]

I have a 14-16" dbh red oak that received a saw cut about 12" from the ground - just above most of the root flare and about 20% through the diameter

1) Can a healthy tree survive this kind of damage?
2) What is the best way of helping it along?

Thanks, Ed

 

[ClimbinArbor]

ouch is right!!!

that saw must have really been going when someone nicked it......... for a saw to go 3" in to something like that is a very bad deal. unless this cut was placed there purposefully, just unwanted.

if that was you, you should be more careful.

if that was a contractor, dont hire him again.

post pics, the tree may be able to come out of it, but i dont know.

Edit: try sealling off the wound with some black duct tape. do not fill the wound. the tree has to grow back into that cut. other than that i dont know, ive never cut a tree like that

 

[arbor pro]

Edit: try sealling off the wound with some black duct tape.

Ok, you've captured my attention with your suggestion of using duct tape to seal off the wound. I really want to know what arboriculture book, training manual, educational seminar, college professor or back alley wino suggested that you use black duct tape to help a tree heal from a 3" cut?

Maybe it was the same company that markets black pruning paint...?

I was going to suggest filling the wound with molten metal but then, that would contradict your advice of not filling the wound so, maybe he should just try spraying some Windex on it. I've heard that does wonders with various human ailments...

 

[arbor pro]

Ok, now that I've given my smart*ss response to the question at hand, here's my technical response:

Some trees are ring-porous, some are diffuse-porous. This refers to the structure of the vascular system.

The vascular system of diffuse-porous trees (such as a birch) is characterized by vessels spread evenly throughout the sapwood. These vessels are produced regularly during the growing season. Diffuse-porous systems distribute nutrients evenly throughout the vascular system which means that if you cut into one side a few inches, the branches on the cut side of the treee might still get nutrients from the vessels on the other sides of the tree. The nutrient flow is 'diffused' throughout the vascular tissue.

The vessels of a ring-porous tree (such as a red oak) are generally larger and concentrated in the outermost layer of sapwood. These vessels are produced early in the season. This is significant because it affects a tree's susceptibility to vascular damage. Ring-porous vascular systems are very efficient, but are much more vulnerable to blockage. The elm's vulnerability to Dutch elm disease is an case in point.

In the case of this Red Oak, you may end up losing branches on the cut side of the tree if the vascular tissue has been completely severed. I say MAY - this is not a guarantee so don't go out and cut it down based off of my projection alone. If the tree were a larger dbh, I would think this cut to be less of an issue; however, since the cut went about 1/5 of the way in, it is very probable that the vascular tissue on that side of the tree is not going to be able to transport nutrients. The cut tissue will never heal. Trees are NOT like people. The tree will try to 'wall' off the damage and cover up ('heal') around the wound but, the cut portion will likely never transfer nutrients again.

Unless the tree is a hazard now because of the loss of structural holding wood, it's longevity outlook is going to be a 'wait and see' approach. There's really nothing you can do about it now. If the duct tape idea makes you feel better, go for it but, I'd use green tape, not black - green is prettier.

This little animation is for whomever made the cut...

 

[EdK]

Maybe this explanation will help a little. This tree, nice as it is, is not some beauty providing shade for a landscaped yard. It is alongside a 1/2 mile long driveway. A lot of trees were being cut in an effort to thin the density of trees along each side so we're talking a mile long strip (1/2 mi each side) about 20-30 feet back. An concious effort was being made to take "lesser species" however yes a mistake was made. This was realized when cutting the notch. It was not finished. It would be nice to save this tree but not the end of the world if it was lost.

Thanks for your replies

 

[arbor pro]

sounds like there's no hazzard in leaving it so, although you might lose a few branches, it likely won't die from the cut. Might as well wait and see.

Glad to hear it's not a front yard specimen.

 

[mantis]

treat it with pruning spray

 

[EdK]

treat it with pruning spray

My only thoughts (novice) are to do something like that. Seems a little hard to do with the two faces of the cut perpendicular to the .375" saw kerf. Someone off this forum had already suggested packing it with grafting wax.

I don't see any imminent hazard from a 80% intact healthy red oak along a drive - as long as it remains so of course.

Again, thanks for the replies thus far.

 

[mantis]

My only thoughts (novice) are to do something like that. Seems a little hard to do with the two faces of the cut perpendicular to the .375" saw kerf. Someone off this forum had already suggested packing it with grafting wax.

I don't see any imminent hazard from a 80% intact healthy red oak along a drive - as long as it remains so of course.

Again, thanks for the replies thus far.

the main thing you want to do is "seal" the tree and stop insects from making a home there.the tree, if healthy should take care of the rest.if not there is really nothing you can do except finish the job

 

[ClimbinArbor]

Ok, you've captured my attention with your suggestion of using duct tape to seal off the wound. I really want to know what arboriculture book, training manual, educational seminar, college professor or back alley wino suggested that you use black duct tape to help a tree heal from a 3" cut?

Maybe it was the same company that markets black pruning paint...?

I was going to suggest filling the wound with molten metal but then, that would contradict your advice of not filling the wound so, maybe he should just try spraying some Windex on it. I've heard that does wonders with various human ailments...

mantis said it well

the main thing you want to do is "seal" the tree and stop insects from making a home there.

if it is filled, instead of sealed, it will create a weak spot later in the trees life. the tree needs to naturally fill a gap like that. and i dont believe in using chemically based substances on tree wounds. i use gorilla tape for lots of stuff around the job, it is 6 times stronger than duct tape, stickier, and black.

 

[EdK]

I well realize it is not a "tree care product" but is there any reason not to use latex caulking? A bead to fill the cut vertically but with as little depth as possible would seem to be a better solution than pruning spray. Otherwise I will take the recommendation to apply some super duty tape. Tape will be a little tricky to get to conform to the irregularities of the oak bark but I would do my best.

Ed

 

[tomtrees58]

Ok, you've captured my attention with your suggestion of using duct tape to seal off the wound. I really want to know what arboriculture book, training manual, educational seminar, college professor or back alley wino suggested that you use black duct tape to help a tree heal from a 3" cut?

Maybe it was the same company that markets black pruning paint...?

I was going to suggest filling the wound with molten metal but then, that would contradict your advice of not filling the wound so, maybe he should just try spraying some Windex on it. I've heard that does wonders with various human ailments...

good one time to remove it tom trees

 

[ClimbinArbor]

no dont remove it yet. of course pics woul help. the duct tape i use should conform well to any bark with flakes 1/4 inch or less. if bigger than that, i hate to say it but use the spray. as ive said before, i dont like putting chemicals in trees, but something made for trees sounds alot better to me than any sprayfoam or caulking

 

[arbor pro]

no dont remove it yet. of course pics woul help. the duct tape i use should conform well to any bark with flakes 1/4 inch or less. if bigger than that, i hate to say it but use the spray. as ive said before, i dont like putting chemicals in trees, but something made for trees sounds alot better to me than any sprayfoam or caulking

ClimbinArbor, you're on top of your game. I don't deal with much red oak in my area so oak wilt wasn't something I was thinking about. I was thinking more in line of insect damage prevention in which case treatment of the wound really doesn't matter for an oak. But, for preventing wilt, painting is probably worth trying. So, I'm going to concede and agree that in two, maybe three instances should a pruning sealer be used. In all other instances, it is absolutely unnecessary and could even be harmful to the tree. The two primary instances according to research by the late Dr Alex Shigo are:

1) when American Elm has to be pruned during the active period of the dutch elm beetle which is typically June/July and

2) to protect oaks from getting wilt when pruned in spring.

The third possible instance is when a birch has been pruned in June/July - this is to prevent borers.

So, there you have it - the rule of thumb for when to 'seal' off a wound and when to leave it alone from the "tree man" himself (Shigo that is, not me).

 

[ClimbinArbor]

thank you, dont mind getting flamed if im wrong........

 

[ClimbinArbor]

course thats yet to happen lmao

 

[arbor pro]

thank you, dont mind getting flamed if im wrong........course thats yet to happen lmao

me neither. I just find it necessary to 'clarify' my advice from time to time...

 

[treesurgeon]

cover wound for two weeks with any tape or plastic, then remove it and leave wound. this will speed up the forming of the callas tissues. leaving it sealed might cause more problems like excessive moisture and rot spreading.

 

[ATS/TexasTree]

ArborPro had it right - there is very little if anything you can do that will appreciably help a bad situation.

"Sealing it?" - The tree seals its own wounds from within - according to Al Shigo the oxidation of these sealing/ protecting phenol based compounds happens within nanoseconds.

There has been some research that suggests that wound callous forms quicker in the absence of light - then wrapping it with a paper tape might help to some small degree. Paper tape breathes better than anything else suggested.

In reality, the wound will cause a large necrotic area to form above the wound and the loss of both limbs above ground and even roots below ground is likely.

The size of the tree, the size of the wound, and a possible target are all considerations as to whether or not this tree remains in the landscape. The decay that will set in will leave the tree vulnerable to fall opposite the wound.

Red oaks are notoriously poor compartmentalizers. Wounds of this type (over time - a decade or more) may eventually involve the entire diameter of the trunk the day it was cut.

 

[ClimbinArbor]

ArborPro had it right - there is very little if anything you can do that will appreciably help a bad situation.

"Sealing it?" - The tree seals its own wounds from within - according to Al Shigo the oxidation of these sealing/ protecting phenol based compounds happens within nanoseconds.

There has been some research that suggests that wound callous forms quicker in the absence of light - then wrapping it with a paper tape might help to some small degree. Paper tape breathes better than anything else suggested.

In reality, the wound will cause a large necrotic area to form above the wound and the loss of both limbs above ground and even roots below ground is likely.

The size of the tree, the size of the wound, and a possible target are all considerations as to whether or not this tree remains in the landscape. The decay that will set in will leave the tree vulnerable to fall opposite the wound.

Red oaks are notoriously poor compartmentalizers. Wounds of this type (over time - a decade or more) may eventually involve the entire diameter of the trunk the day it was cut.

i like the paper tape idea, you could also use cotton on thick barks.

the tree should be fine wiht minimal dieback