Climbing without a saftety line?

[avalancher]

I have a large poplar to take down next weekend, and need some advise from anyone. The poplar is around the 70 foot mark, and there is not a branch on the tree until the very top, too far to get a safety line up and over a branch. I normally throw a line over a branch and have someone tend the end on the ground for safety, but in this case I am faced with climbing without one. The tree is right next to a pave road, so without a doubt its going to be a fatal drop if the spurs kick out on me. Climbing to set a pull over rope is mandatory, there are several houses nearby and a drop in the wrong direction isnt going to work.
What is my best option?Set a safety line in a nearby tree?Nearest tree is about 20 feet.Double wrapping your flip line, is it sufficient in the case of a spur kicking out to hold you until you regain your footing?

 

[Marc]

I have a large poplar to take down next weekend, and need some advise from anyone. The poplar is around the 70 foot mark, and there is not a branch on the tree until the very top, too far to get a safety line up and over a branch. I normally throw a line over a branch and have someone tend the end on the ground for safety, but in this case I am faced with climbing without one. The tree is right next to a pave road, so without a doubt its going to be a fatal drop if the spurs kick out on me. Climbing to set a pull over rope is mandatory, there are several houses nearby and a drop in the wrong direction isnt going to work.
What is my best option?Set a safety line in a nearby tree?Nearest tree is about 20 feet.Double wrapping your flip line, is it sufficient in the case of a spur kicking out to hold you until you regain your footing?

*Disclaimer*
Not a tree climber, nor expert on tree climbing
*End disclaimer*

Just for the sake of discussion, say this were a hypothetical situation, one could set anchors of some sort every ten feet or so as you'd do lead climbing and have someone belay you. As a matter of fact, I'd much rather take a fall lead climbing up a tree than a rock face (which is where it'd most likely happen to me).

 

[blewgrass]

i climb with two fliplines without a top belay. i like the idea of setting anchors as you go if you're not entirely comfortable on just a flipline, would it work to girth hitch the tree with a sling and clip into that? poplars tend to have that slippery waxy bark which sucks if you gaff out.

 

[aktoyota]

When I first started spur climbing I would use a short length of climbing line with a loop on one end and a prusik on the other. Choke the tree your climbing with the loop and then use a locking caribiner on the prusik to adjust the length. Slid it up ahead of your flip line as a safety. Its a little slower but if you're worried about a fall it will tighten up immediately and you can then regain your footing. Just a little tip for someone who's not the most comfortable. I still use it on trees with a wierd lean or when transitioning to a climbing line or such. It can also be used as another flip line though be careful since its not chainsaw safe.

 

[oharatree]

If you gaff out but have a lanyard around the tree you'll be fine. Otherwise, why would lanyards exist? I have gaffed out hundreds of times and I have rarely moved more that a foot down the tree. if you have limited experience climbing you may want to reconsider the project if you are not comfortable.

 

[treemandan]

Wear a long sleeve shirt or jacket, good gloves and keep your lanyard as short as comfortable. Don't worry about kicking out, the friction from your clothing, the lanyard.......and from your face dragging down the side of the tree will slow your descent. When you gain your composure after your slide down just hook back in and climb to the top like it was nothing!

Are you planning on rapping down the pull line?

My first time spiking Jeff yanks me off the crew and " drives" to a little pine where he gives me some spikes and a rope. He says" run up there, tie this rope on and come down it. " I did. Then he just dropped the whole thing on the well head.
20 years later I finally figure out which foot goes to what spike but I still do it that way... ceptin the well head thing.
Comeon Dan, he has to get up there somehow. Who doesn't spike up with just a lanyard to set a rope? Granted its a skill of great importance but all pull lines are not the same.

 

[avalancher]

Wear a long sleeve shirt or jacket, good gloves and keep your lanyard as short as comfortable. Don't worry about kicking out, the friction from your clothing, the lanyard.......and from your face dragging down the side of the tree will slow your descent. When you gain your composure after your slide down just hook back in and climb to the top like it was nothing!

Are you planning on rapping down the pull line?

Thanks! It was my face that I was trying to save! Had enough shaves from bark, thank you very much.
Yep, I descend using a figure 8 descender, nothing fancy.

 

[avalancher]

If you gaff out but have a lanyard around the tree you'll be fine. Otherwise, why would lanyards exist? I have gaffed out hundreds of times and I have rarely moved more that a foot down the tree. if you have limited experience climbing you may want to reconsider the project if you are not comfortable.

Its not that I am not comfortable using just gaffs and flip line, it was the way that i learned, but I had an old timer tell me a few weeks ago,"you dont climb without a safety line, period." Problem is I have run into a few circumstances where a safety line just wasnt going to happen, and without an oldtimer handy to point out how to rig one, so I went with what I had.
In the past I have always double wrapped my lanyard and felt okay with it, but have had a couple of times when I went "nuts to wood".

 

[JS Landscaping]

When you say safety line im guess you mean your climbing line? If you use a throwball you should definatly be able to set a climbing line in a sturdy crotch even if it is 70 feet up. Use the two handed "box" throw. But if your tying in at 70 feet remember you have to have at least 140 feet of climbing line if you are climbing on a Double rope techinque. Especially if you tie in at the top if you spike up, make sure you have enough rope to get back down, Been there once and it wasnt fun having to body thurst back up to a limb to lower my T.I.P. If you can set a climbing line as your "saftey" go for it. Personally Id just spike up being that its a removal, using a double flip line. You can even double wrap a flip line as long as its long enough around the spar, and if you gaff out, the pull on the flip line will make it cinch tight around the spar, and you really wont go anywhere. If you are not comfortable climbing on just spikes and fliplines, pass the job up, and live to climb another day. You really wont fall too far with a lanyard (flipline). It hurts like a B*tch slidding down and eating bark, but your instinct will take over usually and you will be bear huggin the tree. Take it slow, keep your rear out and dont be afraid to lean out on your lanyard, if you get too close to the spar, its easier to gaff out. Climb high, climb safe, Good luck!

 

[masiman]

I don't get the part where you have someone tending your safety. Are they anchored and have you on a belay device? Seems like alot of wasted time for the belayer since you can self belay your safety with your climbing system.

Someone also said be careful if you use your safety as a second lanyard because it is not chainsaw safe. The wire cores may slow the saw down but I'd trust my chaps to stop the saw before I thought the wire core would resist cutting.

If you are unsure, I'd tie into that adjacent tree. A 20' swing & slam is better than 20' fall.

A second lanyard is extremely handy for those trees that have too many branches in the way to set a safety from the ground (pines, etc.) Setting your safety up a second lanyard is very workable. If you plan on climbing more, I'd recommend the second lanyard.

"It's better to be a live dog than a dead lion".

 

[lxt]

when I started.....it was free climb if you used the sissy strap man did you take a pounding, I dont know if any one remembers but big orange had the worst "buck straps" ever!! trying to adjust that thing in the air would surely bring death to ya!......thanks to gibbs for a wonderful device!!



LXT.........

 

[treemandan]

when I started.....it was free climb if you used the sissy strap man did you take a pounding, I dont know if any one remembers but big orange had the worst "buck straps" ever!! trying to adjust that thing in the air would surely bring death to ya!......thanks to gibbs for a wonderful device!!



LXT.........

That little device is what brought me out of retirement I swear. After a few years of everybody making fun of my hardhat and me trying to work those straps I said " You can keep this!" I saw those ascenders and came back.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Yup, freeclimbing to the top for me (with my climbing line clipped to the back of my saddle), clip in buckstrap when I get to the top and tie in climbing line, unclip buckstrap and go to work. For you, just use a flipline and tie in climbing line at the top.

Disclaimer: Freeclimb at your own risk.

 

[treemandan]

Yup, freeclimbing to the top for me (with my climbing line clipped to the back of my saddle), clip in buckstrap when I get to the top and tie in climbing line, unclip buckstrap and go to work. For you, just use a flipline and tie in climbing line at the top.

Disclaimer: Freeclimb at your own risk.

We allready knew that.

 

[Nailsbeats]

I know Dan, I just like to state the obvious, I hate to assume anyone is smarter than they are.

 

[BCMA]

Yup, freeclimbing to the top for me (with my climbing line clipped to the back of my saddle), clip in buckstrap when I get to the top and tie in climbing line, unclip buckstrap and go to work. For you, just use a flipline and tie in climbing line at the top.

Disclaimer: Freeclimb at your own risk.

FREE CLIMB…YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have one of the most dangerous occupations in the world- and some are out there…free-climbing….yikes!

The tree climber who was free climbing here a few years ago fell and died. Two of my ex-employees fell free climbing (not while working in our company). I fired one of the employees because I caught him free climbing, and felt that he was an unsafe climber. He fell a week later- 55 feet (on his own job) (no insurance) and crushed the bones in his face. Last year another ex-employee fell and killed himself in front of his son when he unhooked to go around some branches. This guy had been climbing for over twenty years. We have a policy in our company- ABSOLUTELY- no free climbing.

To answer the original post. You should have no problem using a flip-line and spurs to climb the tree. Under no circumstance, unhook your flip-line without another TIP.

Also, make sure your spurs are sharp and sharpened correctly.

 

[Slvrmple72]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!

 

[randyg]

I don't get the part where you have someone tending your safety. Are they anchored and have you on a belay device? Seems like alot of wasted time for the belayer since you can self belay your safety with your climbing system.

Someone also said be careful if you use your safety as a second lanyard because it is not chainsaw safe. The wire cores may slow the saw down but I'd trust my chaps to stop the saw before I thought the wire core would resist cutting.

If you are unsure, I'd tie into that adjacent tree. A 20' swing & slam is better than 20' fall.

A second lanyard is extremely handy for those trees that have too many branches in the way to set a safety from the ground (pines, etc.) Setting your safety up a second lanyard is very workable. If you plan on climbing more, I'd recommend the second lanyard.

"It's better to be a live dog than a dead lion".

ANY un-controled swing is the SAME AS a fall. If you swing 20' you will hit with the same force/speed as if falling 20". THIS IS FACT.

If you tie in to that tree 20' away AND keep flip line/buck strap around tree you are spiking. . .

 

[Nailsbeats]

ANY un-controled swing is the SAME AS a fall. If you swing 20' you will hit with the same force/speed as if falling 20". THIS IS FACT.

If you tie in to that tree 20' away AND keep flip line/buck strap around tree you are spiking. . .

A good slam is never good, especially if you can't get your body turned to face it in time. Pushed off many a time to swing and missed the target and thought oh :censored: here we go!

 

[Nailsbeats]

FREE CLIMB…YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have one of the most dangerous occupations in the world- and some are out there…free-climbing….yikes!

The tree climber who was free climbing here a few years ago fell and died. Two of my ex-employees fell free climbing (not while working in our company). I fired one of the employees because I caught him free climbing, and felt that he was an unsafe climber. He fell a week later- 55 feet (on his own job) (no insurance) and crushed the bones in his face. Last year another ex-employee fell and killed himself in front of his son when he unhooked to go around some branches. This guy had been climbing for over twenty years. We have a policy in our company- ABSOLUTELY- no free climbing.

To answer the original post. You should have no problem using a flip-line and spurs to climb the tree. Under no circumstance, unhook your flip-line without another TIP.

Also, make sure your spurs are sharp and sharpened correctly.

Sometimes I wonder how many actually really climb on this site. Seems to be a wide gap, between the guys that are really smooth, controlled, confident and the other guys (you know: the whiners).