MS210 sticks or locks up at BDC...

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Ran home for lunch and fired it up...Won't idle...:cry:..Also falls flat at wide open throttle...Hopefully it is not an air leak, but that is what I am guessing...:censored:...Will know more tonight...
 
Ran home for lunch and fired it up...Won't idle...:cry:..Also falls flat at wide open throttle...Hopefully it is not an air leak, but that is what I am guessing...:censored:...Will know more tonight...

Pressure/Vac check before, during, and after assembly! Clamshell motors can be a bugger to get sealed. Clean the mating surfaces, then clean it some more.
 
Things that make ya go hmmm. I'm the first person this ever happened to and you're only the second. I guess we're pretty special:) Actually there's another pic around here somewhere of a 210-250 with a bent rod. I'd guess that was about a year ago, maybe more.

That was me. Obviously I came late to this thread. Got pretty exciting around page 2 and 3!! You are truly fine gents for allowing cooler heads to prevail. I concur that the 021 rod is a piece of poop. I have uncorked several 025s, all of which had much beefier rods, similar to what we're used to in the pro models. I see no problems with rods in the 025s. The 021 rod I bent (which I took a lot of guff for) was identical to the one Brad posted. I pretzeled it pretty good. For the record, the clutch was on way too tight, but I don't know who did it.

I just took apart an 023 engine last night (engine was locked up but the piston looked good through the exhaust port) and what I found was interesting. It does indeed have a stamped steel rod, although it is not identical to the 021 rod and it does look heavier. The roller bearings had all come out of the big end! One of the bearings reached the top of one of the transfers and it chipped the piston and dented the top of the transfer. The piston did receive a pinched (and broken) ring and has some roughed-up spots on the edge of the piston skirt. Nothing got on top of the piston. So there is some damage, but the saw MAY run again with another crank, ring (if one comes around) and with a little creative filing/dremeling. It is interesting to note that the 023 shares the stroke of the 025, but instead of just slapping the same crank in, they cheapened it up some to save some coin. For shame! Having said that, I cut a the better part of truckload of wood with an 023 this last weekend and it was a fun little saw. I'm amazed at what you can do with sharp picco chain.

So the moral of the story.... the 021s are ok for what they are intended for... branch trimming and the like. The 023 may be somewhat better, but if your plan is to FIX them when they break, ante up for the 025. Same weight, gobs more power, and built with way better guts. Having been inside one, I think the 025 could take some mods. I am planning to port one (I know, I know, why would I bother) and see what it can do. Who knows, maybe it will be an 026 killer.

Ok, what gives with posting pictures? I guess it's been a while since I posted a pic, cuz it won't let me upload. When i get some time later on I'll go to school on it and post some pics of the crank.
 
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Whatever! Multiple times? What are you talking about? Are you going tell me that's a strong rod design too? I'm not one bit ashamed to show my work. I can go over this again for you if you want. That piston was held in place with a piece of rope and I attempted to remove the flywheel nut with a scrench. You can debate all night long if you like about the proper rod angle the piston should be at with a piston stop if you want. Bottom line, it's a weak design.



http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=81365




Hmmmmmmmm...................Brad ..........Piston stop and impact wrench???




If I recall correct when I shipped you the piston you told me you f'd up your rod and was wondering if I had a crank ...

.
 
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So you f'd up two .............I take plenty of them apart and like others never had that problem ....I use rope and never have a problem...




.

No no no, its a weak design, you just got lucky with yours, wait, seems Lake said he never had a problem either, I haven't, you haven't, Lake hasn't, hmmm, guess we is just da lucky ones,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:
 
Now now now, boys, quiet down. Brad is the new guru and his legion of followers wont like yall badmouthing him.


I will buy up all yall's junk 180's and such, and keep rebuilding and making money on them.!!!
 
Now now now, boys, quiet down. Brad is the new guru and his legion of followers wont like yall badmouthing him.


I will buy up all yall's junk 180's and such, and keep rebuilding and making money on them.!!!

No no , I'm not badmouthing him with his abilities at all. Here's what I take issue with. Here's the differance between him and me.

Last week a man brought me in a FS250 weedtrimmer. Said it didn't have any power and would not stay running. Me, I look it over, check the fuel, all looked normal. I want to see that piston. I removed the muffler and the piston looked fine. I went to reinstall the muffler while talking to the customer I heard a snap, the screw broke off in the cylinder, I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. I'm like grrrrr. I told the man tant no biggie, if I can't get it out I'll replace the cylinder free of charge. He was fine with that. He left and I went and tried to drill the screw out, wasn't going to happen. I put a new cylinder on it and went on to find the problem with the trimmer and fixed it. He came back a couple days later to get his trimmer. He was delighted I gave him a new cylinder free of charge. He said I like dealing with a honest man. He left smiling.

I did not call Stihl hollering those dayumm screws cost me a cylinder. I didn't come on this site trying to get a jug on the cheap to cover my mistake. I didn't come on here and warn everyone hey you guys better watch out for those screws they use. No, I accepted responisibility for my own actions and made things right without blaming anyone.

Busting pistons and bending connecting rods while repairing a chainsaw isn't repairing a chainsaw, its destroying a chainsaw, big differance.
 
No no no, its a weak design, you just got lucky with yours, wait, seems Lake said he never had a problem either, I haven't, you haven't, Lake hasn't, hmmm, guess we is just da lucky ones,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

I'm thinking there's prolly not gonna be a problem until you inherit a saw that some ninnyhammer in some back room somewhere has overtorqued the bejesus out of. I think it's not the "taking off" thats the problem, it's the "putting on."

Wait a sec, that can't be! Nothing like that would ever happen with the finely honed chainsaw commandos at the Stihl dealership, so I guess it must be Brad.

Dangit, Brad, quit using pipe wrenches on those flywheel nuts!
 
I'm thinking there's prolly not gonna be a problem until you inherit a saw that some ninnyhammer in some back room somewhere has overtorqued the bejesus out of. I think it's not the "taking off" thats the problem, it's the "putting on."

Wait a sec, that can't be! Nothing like that would ever happen with the finely honed chainsaw commandos at the Stihl dealership, so I guess it must be Brad.

Dangit, Brad, quit using pipe wrenches on those flywheel nuts!

OK, so how is that a design problem? I took issue with Brad because he basically implied they all were junk. I dont believe that for one damn second. He didnt have it right and I called him on it, and will continue to do so.
 
Actually, I don't think it's a design problem either. It stands up just fine when treated right. But they are light duty saws that are not really built to take the abuse that can happen during rebuilding. If you put ANY nut on ANYWHERE too tight, you take chance on busting something the next time it has to be removed.

Brad is right, it's a cheaply built saw. But it isn't a design problem, it's actually designed to BE cheap because that reflects the target consumer. Based on the difference in quality I see between the 021, 023, and 025 cranks, the Stihl folk have taken pretty serious stock in what would be required of these units. The 021 may hold up fine under normal ops, but it is certainly not overbuilt.

I have never bought one of these new, so I really don't know how to evaluate their price point. I would be interested to see what else is available at the price the 021 goes for. Not that it matters much to me, I really just assemble busted crap into working units. I do like these little guys, they're light, fun, run well, and get the job done.
 
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I have nothing against Brad and he is welcome to post his experience with the saw. However, in my personal experience with these saws I have never bent a rod. I'm just a tinkerer and I can say if I haven't pulled 50 of the above mentioned models apart I haven't pulled apart one.


I can state many people's experiences, but being the closest...my dad bought an 025 back in 1998 and has cut 12 cords per year with it since then. I'm not saying 120 plus cords of wood is a lot, but for the common guy that is a bit of wood to use by themselves in 10 years. Since he had such a good experience with the 025 he bought a new MS250 two years ago and about 14 months after he owned it the saw locked up. He was a bit PO'd since his 025 was still running good eventhough he has cut numerous cords of wood and it is a bit old. He ran to his local dealer and they said the P&C is messed up, but it was out of warranty and he should give stihl a call. I ended up calling stihl for him and found out the bearing cage came out after taking it apart....and it took out the P&C. I ended up sending the saw to wisconsin and they installed a new p&c free of charge along with the bearings. Think what you want, but I think thats superior service. I have no doubt there are many stories on the jonsered, husky and dolmar side that are parallel with the story I mentioned above. No matter how much a person wants to split hairs on performance, power to weight, comfortness, etc...having a great servicing dealer is a huge asset imo. Eventhough I personally prefer stihl I'm not saying they are they only one that builds a quality saw. Husky, Jonsered, and Dolmar make very capable and quality saws also.
 
:jawdrop:...Here we go again...

Yes and no. I think I just found a way to put this debate to rest. Just got in a MS180 used by a landscape crew. They finally killed it after 6 years of hard use, engine scored. I showed him the scored piston at no charge of course and he said well keep it. He left and then it hit me, hey the flywheel and clutch are on it, hmmmmmmmm. So when my buddy Hoss comes around we will make a vid showing how easy it is to remove the clutch and flywheel off a MS180 without busting the piston or bending the rod. We may even see just how much pressure, in foot pounds using a torque wrench, that rod will withstand before bending. Should be interesting to see.

attachment.php


As you can see its ready for the Cuda machine, I don't work on dirty saws..
 
Also

Here's the cylinder I messed up snapping off a screw while yaking away with my customer. When you screw up you need to own up, not go blaming the manufacture or anyone else. Grow a set and admit your mistakes and life will be so much easier.

attachment.php


Dayummm that screw, grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Who's fault, mine, simple as that..
 

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