Need advice felling this forked, split tree

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40YearHomelite

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First off, I apologize if this post is in the wrong forum. Please feel free to move it, if necessary. I've been lurking for years, but I don't often contribute to the discussion.

See below for some pictures I took today of a good sized red oak (at least I think that's what it is). The main trunk is about 30" in diameter. I plan on taking it down using my 85cc DCS6421 with a 32" bar running full-comp chisel. I've taken down a fair number of various trees without any trouble, but I'm a little hesitant about this one because of the significant split running vertically through a lot of the lower trunk. All the top branches look healthy; no apparent widow-makers.

Here's my plan:
  1. wrap a couple big chains around the trunk between the cut and the fork to prevent a barber chair
  2. make a 90deg open-faced notch (maybe 5" deep) to allow it to fall toward the lean
  3. bore completely through behind the notch (and about 3" higher than the vertex of the notch) to leave about a 2" hinge
  4. cut from the bore toward the back, leaving about a 1" strap on the back of the tree
  5. cut a few inches into the back just below the strap and let it fall

Does that sound like a good idea? What should I do differently? What are the greatest risks here?

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I would put a big open face notch on the side it leans towards and bore cut it evenly towards the split. If it comes apart who cares,you can cut the other side by itself.
 
That tree has a very high risk of barber chairing, you are right to be concerned about dropping it. Do not cut a face into it. If direction is not a concern, gravity will take care of it.

If you have heavy loadbinder chains, put one or two high up just under the fork on the main trunk. Tension them as much as you can, then pop some wedges in under the chain and pound them in to tension it further.

With a good sharp chain and a clear escape plan, start by making a cut parallell to the direction of lean, about 1/3 deep. Then do the same on the opposite side. Try to cut directly in line with the lean. What you are doing, is cutting out all the side fibres which will help prevent it from barbering. Now make a back cut level with the two side cuts. Cut fast, and it'll pop right off there. You may only need to cut a couple inches on the back cut before it goes.

Seems weird to not cut a face, I know.... but a face isn't going to do anything for you. Removing side fibre is what will make the fall safer.

Alternatively, someone (RandyMac?) suggested popping a rope in trees like this, digging out the back side roots with a back hoe or similar, and pulling it over. Takes the stump and all, nice and clean and safer than other methods.
Shaun
 
I'd put a small notch about two feet up from the ground in the direction of the strongly leaning half of the tree, and then just cut straight down from the fork and into the crack until that half of the tree releases (if you can reach the fork with your 36-inch bar). The other half should stay where it is. If you get down to the notch and the leaning half hasn't released yet due to gravity, bore cut to make your back cut. Hard to say whether gravity alone will release it when you cut down the crack or whether you'll need the bore/back cut into the notched portion, leaving alone the other portion. Really depends on how much strength remains in the wood fiber and how much is hollow. Then the other half can be felled in whichever direction the lean wants to take it.

That's a simple way to take care of it. If that doesn't seem feasible (you have a better idea there on the ground than we can looking at pics), I think your plan will work just fine.

Done quite a few of these, but the pucker factor never goes away. :msp_ohmy:
 
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I'm curious to why it split?
Lightning?
or is that side that heavy?

wait til' it's 0 out side for a week, then hit it with a hammer.
 
Ditto the chain wrap. I've had an oak tree chase me down, and it ain't fun. I lost a buddy to one a few years ago, and I never drop a tree without remembering him. RIP Brian B. I wrap all large trees now.

Alternatively, I've got an old US Army deuce & 1/2 with some monster chain that I've used to pull over trees like this too. Load the deuce up, attach the chain as high up the tree as possible, pull with the truck until chain is suspended, and then just cut it off. I've also snapped a large oak off with this truck, while trying to free a tangled tree from others. But I'd be careful not to do this with any smaller vehicle, as I've heard of tractors being yanked by a tree. The deuce is 14000# empty, 20k+ loaded.
 
Here's my plan:
  1. wrap a couple big chains around the trunk between the cut and the fork to prevent a barber chair
  2. make a 90deg open-faced notch (maybe 5" deep) to allow it to fall toward the lean
  3. bore completely through behind the notch (and about 3" higher than the vertex of the notch) to leave about a 2" hinge
  4. cut from the bore toward the back, leaving about a 1" strap on the back of the tree
  5. cut a few inches into the back just below the strap and let it fall

Does that sound like a good idea? What should I do differently? What are the greatest risks here?

I'm nost sure what the chains are for if you are bore cutting, it can't barber chair if are bore cutting, because there isn't any holding wood to barber chair with, but if it makes a person feel better to wrap trees with chains then I guess it doesn't hurt anything.

On the 90 degree face, its easiest to just cut almost straight down partially into one of those swells and then cut level and that will make a very nice shallow 90 degree hinge that will be the strongest, the deeper you go the harder it is to make a good 90 degree, but if its 83 degrees its not that big of a deal, LOL.

Just make all of your cuts level, cutting 3" higher doesn't do anything on a bore cut except make it look like you don't know how to line up a cuts. When you are stump jumping then it does something for keeping the butt from chasing you backwards, but cutting 3 inches higher in a bore cut won't do much of anything except screw with how you made your hinge. The 2" hinge is fine 1-3" is acceptable on that size tree in that situation.

Cut from the hinge to the the back is correct, but as long as everyone and everything is accountable for, then stopping and pulling out and then back cutting a 1" strap higher or lower is a waste of time and is just more time for something to go wrong, just blow out the back and step away, if the lean is heavy 1" isn't exactly going to guarantee holding anything. I've had whole root systems pull up with 6" left. Now if you are stopping and using the back cut on the strap with the tip of your saw as a means of getting farther away from the trunk then that is safe, but I would leave more like 3" and obviously stand to the side.

That is my take on it. I think your greatest risk is not doing all of those steps correctly, for instance don't think a 4" hinge is safer or making sure that you have all of the center bored out, its the big things and over looking the little things on trees like these that get you killed.

Overall for a good bore cut this is not a hard tree, but if you don't do it correctly then you could have life changing issues.

Back cutting this tree in any form is a guaranted barberchair. Why? because its already barberchaired so it doesn't matter if you "speed cut it", have a chizzel chain, long bars, Coos Bay, T cut or just hillbilly the thing, its going to come apart ............... its already barber chaired or split, so speed cutting or slow nibbling at it makes no difference when you finally reach the point where you have severed enough fibers from the back half and it can no longer hold itself to the stump, its going to come swinging out, that is just the physics of those pre-split trees.


Taking chains and binding the tree so that you can then back cut it is just bassackwards thinking. There is way more strength in bore cutting the tree and letting it hold itself together than trusting some chain or strap, but that is a personal item there. I guess, if a person is dumb enough to backcut a tree like that then its nothing to add chaining it together as a crutch for poor technique. Where as, its much smarter to just bore cut it and let the tree hold itself together, when it wants to go over it will just go over.

Not putting a face cut in this tree is not the smartest either. You can do it, but there is absolutely no advantage to it. It takes a few seconds to get that face cut out of there and provide a relief for that side of the tree so it can just hinge over instead of bind up and then who know what will happen, it could blow the hinge wood and it come back at you or barber chair on the front slab, as if you had a 30 degree face cut and "cam" back at you that way.

If you are going to not cut a face then you are better off just kerf cutting the tree, which is just starting your gunning cut and not stopping until you have blown out the back, I cut like that on certain trees, but that doesn't make it smart, its almost a combination of the unsafe practive of stump jumping and the safer practice of bore cutting put together, it has marginal results, but is technically the fastest way to cut a tree down, because you are severing the entire tree with the least amount of cutting.................. don't do it.

Thats my take on it.

Sam
 
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How high up is that first big fork? You might also be able to get a lot of stress off of the bottom using a polesaw, if you can reach. That would make it possible to fall the rest of the thing 90 degrees from the split, which would be way safer. I'm still wondering how crucial it is to be messing with this tree in the first place, though.
 
Bulldozer or back hoe?

Good idea, but with these threads, I assume if they are asking how to cut it they don't have heavy equipment.

Just like us w/ chainsaws a guy w/ a tractor/ loader is looking for an excuse to use it. And I would also assume if this was a equipment operator it would be down alrighty. Just my take on it.
 
Good idea, but with these threads, I assume if they are asking how to cut it they don't have heavy equipment.

Just like us w/ chainsaws a guy w/ a tractor/ loader is looking for an excuse to use it. And I would also assume if this was a equipment operator it would be down alrighty. Just my take on it.

I do have a John Deere 210c backhoe, but I don't understand how it would make this process any safer...?

It's leaning over my driveway/road. I don't suppose waiting for it to fall on its own would be all that bad, but I'm tired of watching this thing grow and break apart.

Thanks for all the replies :yourock::
 
Also, I think that is a burr oak (certainly in the white oak family), its not a red oak.

Have fun,

Sam
 
id use a big saw with a long bar ,take the leaner side down first ,if you dont feel safe cutting all the way through to the crack ,maybe cut part way in and see if a rope and a pickup will pull the first half down ,then by the looks of the pics ,you can drop the remaining half like a normal tree ,if you do have the backhoe try going out as far as you can from the split and see if the bucket will push down hard enough to finish off the split,how high up is the v in the tree ?
 
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If it were me I would take a ladder go up above the " Y " and cut it as any other tree one side of the crotch at a time basically you will have 2 small trees.I dont see all the hoopla really good luck
 
If it were me I would take a ladder go up above the " Y " and cut it as any other tree one side of the crotch at a time basically you will have 2 small trees.I dont see all the hoopla really good luck

Apparently you don't know the rule about saws and ladders ................ never combine the two.

Sam
 
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