When, if ever, are the 590xp and 595xp saws coming out?

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Yes, that'd be hard on any saw, and certainly wear on any bearing. But as mentioned, the recommended max bar length for a 390xp is only 28". But for what you're saying, one would be using a much longer than that, probably 36". While the 390 would be able to pull that much chain through a tree, why would Husqvarna put such a low limit on the bar? Even the 576AT has a max bar length of 32" and its 15cc and almost 1hp smaller!

I'd say the shorter bar recommendation must have to do with the inboard clutch and too weak of a bearing for it (or some arrangement in there). A longer bar when coupled with too tight a chain pulling through a fat trunk day after day will put pressure on any bearing in any saw, but with an inboard clutch the sprocket is that much farther from the engine, creating increased cantilever pressure on the PTO bearing as opposed to an outboard clutch/inboard sprocket. With such pressure, the bearing and/or set up on the 390 clearly has a limit that is lower than the engine's power limit. (so the immediate solution would be to stop running such long bars on the saw)

So again, I'd wonder if they will continue with the inboard clutch if going to a 590 (I think the 390 is the only big husky to have one), or will a thorough redesign be needed (as westcoaster90 is certainly calling for) to handle a better bearing. Obviously an inboard clutch is possible for a big saw, as one only needs to look at an 880Stihl. Husky just hasn't mastered the inboard clutch yet.

i have to agree with you about the inboard clutch. i was thinking the same thing but didn't mention in the post about the crankshaft. it's well known that an inboard clutch can cause thermal problems with the crank bearings and seals. this looks like it could be a thermal problem to me, something is causing the crankshaft to slip inside the inner race of an apparently healthy bearing. i'm anxiously awaiting a bigger 5 series saw. i think the 575 is a revolutionary design that the best saw that husky has made so far.
 
That's from chain brakes. Not a comparable issue and unrelated.

still a pain in the ass issue though lol i'm not convinced that inboard clutches have anything to do with it or that inboard clutches hold the sprocket out further on the crank. they are both aligned with the bar pad and regardless which side the clutch is on the sprocket is in about the same spot on the crank.
 
That's from chain brakes. Not a comparable issue and unrelated.

you may be right, but i'm not convinced. how could a chain brake cause thermal problems when it only operates rarely? one thing is certain both devices, chain brakes and clutches, operate on the same principal. they convert inertia (the tendancy for objects to maintain their velocity) into heat. a chain brake might go a month without being operated. the clutch on a 90 -100cc saw being operated by a man in a hurry to make money, in big Douglas firs, is creating a constant, significant thermal load. that being said, maybe i'm wrong. what do you think causes the crank to spin in the inner race of a good ball bearing? i need to know. i've got two dogs in this fight, a 385 and a 394.
 
I'm just saying that I think it's reaching to think the problem is with the inboard clutch. There are too many saws with inboard clutches that don't have this issue. Besides, both the crank and bearing should heat up at the same rate.

i hear you, but i've heard of heat problems with in board clutches going back more than 15 years, including pto side seal and bearing failures. it's nice to have the sprocket out where you can slip the chain on it but it comes at a cost. lots of hombres don't hammer their clutches. my guess is that westcoaster is a monster out to make more money faster, nothing wrong with that. regarding heat propagation in a crankshaft. inside the case is a cool stream of fresh vapor and air. outside the case is a clutch that can get very hot, screwed on to the outer extremity of the crankshaft. some where in between is a ball bearing. the crank has a coefficient of expansion the inner race has another. you'd need to know the actual alloys and look it up but it's pretty easy to imagine the inner race heating up until it's loose on the shaft. as i asked before, got any ideas what else might cause the shaft to spin inside the inner race? the bearing is still good.
 
There are too many saws with inboard clutches that don't have this issue.

But the fact is, inboard clutches might be proven and durable, but Husky don't make them (yet?). I won't argue that the technology isn't there to do it, but the point is that Husqvarna has only a single big engine saw with an inboard clutch, and that particular saw has bearing issues (specifically PTO bearing), and Husky themselves rate the max bar length on that saw 4" smaller than their own saw with an outboard clutch saw which is a whole class smaller (the 576At).

Again, people run a too long of a bar on the 390, and when limbing or in big wood it puts too much tension on the chain (as you noted) and it wears on a bearing not matched for that pressure.

So the point is, there's an issue with the bearings, and I'd imagine before Husqvarna releases a new 590 saw they'd want it sorted out and not be limited to a 28" bar on what would surely be a very powerful saw. Maybe they need to beef up the bearings to accommodate the outboard clutch. Maybe they need a different crank configuration. Maybe they just need a thorough redesign. Or maybe they need to steal some proven tech for Stihl.
 
still a pain in the ass issue though lol i'm not convinced that inboard clutches have anything to do with it or that inboard clutches hold the sprocket out further on the crank. they are both aligned with the bar pad and regardless which side the clutch is on the sprocket is in about the same spot on the crank.

i totally agree with you on sprocket alignment. the problem with inboard clutches is that they are shrouded under the oil pump cover and wrapped around the pto bearing and seal. due to the closeness, heat transfer to the pto bearing could be via radiation, not just convection. an outboard clutch is hanging out in the turbulent pto side air, further from the case, bearings and seals. when it comes to radiant energy, distance is important. also significant is that the oil pump cover restricts air circulation around the clutch drum. i'm not saying anything is true or false, just raising issues that need to be considered.

regarding over-tight chains, which was raised earlier., i suspect you know how to adjust a chain. you probably check it in the morning while you're fueling and oiling. even if you started tight, it wouldn't be long before your chain had streatched, the sprockets and bar had worn and your chain was in the normal mode. do you keep your chain too tight?
But the fact is, inboard clutches might be proven and durable, but Husky don't make them (yet?). I won't argue that the technology isn't there to do it, but the point is that Husqvarna has only a single big engine saw with an inboard clutch, and that particular saw has bearing issues (specifically PTO bearing), and Husky themselves rate the max bar length on that saw 4" smaller than their own saw with an outboard clutch saw which is a whole class smaller (the 576At).

Again, people run a too long of a bar on the 390, and when limbing or in big wood it puts too much tension on the chain (as you noted) and it wears on a bearing not matched for that pressure.

So the point is, there's an issue with the bearings, and I'd imagine before Husqvarna releases a new 590 saw they'd want it sorted out and not be limited to a 28" bar on what would surely be a very powerful saw. Maybe they need to beef up the bearings to accommodate the outboard clutch. Maybe they need a different crank configuration. Maybe they just need a thorough redesign. Or maybe they need to steal some proven tech for Stihl.

the only 5 series saw i've had in pieces on my bench is the 575 and i don't know anything about larger prototypes of this strato design but... the design is unlike any other saw, with long, very slender transfers that snake up the outside of the cylinder casting. if anyone has a complete grasp of how the piston works. please post it. every time i think i have it figured out, i see something wrong in my thinking and suddenly i need a beer. it also seems to depend on a very small crankcase volume, tightened further by "stuffers." it probably needs to have main bearings with the smallest outside diameter possible to keep volume low. i suspect, but don't know, that it depends on shock wave propagation, like an expansion chamber for part of its mojo. the point being that a 90cc or 95cc version of the same design type is likely a difficult, time consuming and expensive exercise. i'd love to talk to the guy behind it. by the way, the 575 has become my favorite saw since i got one several years ago. before, i used a 272, 385 and 394, depending on the situation. now i mostly just take two 575's. another thing is if you start at dawn and break for lunch at 1100 you're going to use less than three tanks of mix, often only two.

I'm just saying that I think it's reaching to think the problem is with the inboard clutch. There are too many saws with inboard clutches that don't have this issue. Besides, both the crank and bearing should heat up at the same rate.

brad, i need to apologize for one thing. i didn't understand what you meant by "using a chain brake." now, i think you meant the guy who can't figure out why his saw is jammed and keeps revving it to get it going again... until you show him how to operate the chain brake. if that's the case you weren't too clear, but still, my bad. however, i'm pretty sure that westcoaster doesn't fall into that category.
 
brad, i need to apologize for one thing. i didn't understand what you meant by "using a chain brake." now, i think you meant the guy who can't figure out why his saw is jammed and keeps revving it to get it going again... until you show him how to operate the chain brake. if that's the case you weren't too clear, but still, my bad. however, i'm pretty sure that westcoaster doesn't fall into that category.
That is correct. It's all good :)
 
But the fact is, inboard clutches might be proven and durable, but Husky don't make them (yet?). I won't argue that the technology isn't there to do it, but the point is that Husqvarna has only a single big engine saw with an inboard clutch, and that particular saw has bearing issues (specifically PTO bearing), and Husky themselves rate the max bar length on that saw 4" smaller than their own saw with an outboard clutch saw which is a whole class smaller (the 576At).

Again, people run a too long of a bar on the 390, and when limbing or in big wood it puts too much tension on the chain (as you noted) and it wears on a bearing not matched for that pressure.

So the point is, there's an issue with the bearings, and I'd imagine before Husqvarna releases a new 590 saw they'd want it sorted out and not be limited to a 28" bar on what would surely be a very powerful saw. Maybe they need to beef up the bearings to accommodate the outboard clutch. Maybe they need a different crank configuration. Maybe they just need a thorough redesign. Or maybe they need to steal some proven tech for Stihl.

iya-

you've got it backwards in two ways. an outboard clutch is easier on a crankshaft not harder. and stihl is the company using husqvarna's technology for strato saws.
 
This bearing problem with the 390 must be isolated to a few users. None of the long time Husqvarna dealers around here have ever heard of such a thing.
Don't the balls have to freeze up before the track will spin? As if the track has less friction than the actual bearings to allow easier spinning. I don't want to argue, but I find it very hard to believe.
 
Don't the balls have to freeze up before the track will spin? As if the track has less friction than the actual bearings to allow easier spinning. I don't want to argue, but I find it very hard to believe.
This would be the case if the interference fit at room temperature for the inner race and the shaft, and the outer race and the bearing pocket is within the design limits. For dirt bike transmissions, sweedish Husqvarna ones it is not at all uncommon for the shaft to spin in the bearing and or the bearing to spin in the housing. It isn't the reason they become parts piles but one to be hesitant to re assemble. I have one engine that would seem to be ready for a cylinder but every time I think of it pushing the crank around I can see one of the bearing's balls are not going around. The crank is always tight on the bearing(s) but the transmission is another matter.

If Westcoaster90 says the pto side is a quarter of one thousand of an inch smaller than the other side I will take him at his word. There must be a place to measure that the inner race never actually touched. The inner race has a radius which I suspect would be enough to get a measurement off of if that surface ended there. His spot welds probably at least locally shrink the inner race.
 
This bearing problem with the 390 must be isolated to a few users. None of the long time Husqvarna dealers around here have ever heard of such a thing.
Don't the balls have to freeze up before the track will spin? As if the track has less friction than the actual bearings to allow easier spinning. I don't want to argue, but I find it very hard to believe.

once you get a few more years experience under your belt you'll see what were talking about lol your pretty green yet :D that shop is either lying or their mechanic is retarded. forget about all the saws i've seen with spun mains. considering husqvarna literally have a service bulletin acknowledging this issue that any dealer can read i'm gonna go out on a limb and say the issue is real lol lets just say this. i have 3 390's currently. 2008, 2012 and a 2014. all of them have a spun PTO main and are fixed with loctite 620. one has the inner race welded to the shaft. :givebeer: i know of 7 more with spun mains and the guys chose to run them that way til they die.
 
Westcoaster, 3questions. what length bar is being run on these 390s? lgx or jgx chain? Also what mix ratio of gussolene? I personally believe octane has a thing or 2 to do with heat.

Remember, I'm just a firewood hack not a feller. Course lately I'm dropping big dead white ash all over the county.:chainsaw:
 
At no time have I ever run more than 7 tanks thru my 390 or 288 in a day. That might be as much as 20 days a yr- not 20 days in a row.
So we are talking bout 2 different situations entirely.
I mostly run 24" on dem der saws, run a 32 when needed, 1 jgx at 105 drivers will last me a yr on average
so they are not pulling long bars that much which I believe might be a factor when dissecting pto side failures. I also believe high octane at a rich mix runs cooler, just my opinion tho.
 
i have 3 390's currently. 2008, 2012 and a 2014. all of them have a spun PTO main

Hey westcoaster, aside from asking about what bar length you usually run, I'd also like to ask about your dealer response on the spun bearings, particularly on the 2014 one. You said you know of service bulletins on this, but wouldn't such a new saw still be under warranty? Or is this not a warranty covered issue? If not, then why not? I ask because I also have the same saw (actually a Jred 2188, but the same nonetheless) but only a few months old. So if the bearings aren't under warranty for a known issue, I'd like to know why the dealer says its not. Thanks.
 
the only 5 series saw i've had in pieces on my bench is the 575 and i don't know anything about larger prototypes of this strato design but... the design is unlike any other saw, with long, very slender transfers that snake up the outside of the cylinder casting. if anyone has a complete grasp of how the piston works. please post it. every time i think i have it figured out, i see something wrong in my thinking and suddenly i need a beer. it also seems to depend on a very small crankcase volume, tightened further by "stuffers." it probably needs to have main bearings with the smallest outside diameter possible to keep volume low. i suspect, but don't know, that it depends on shock wave propagation, like an expansion chamber for part of its mojo. the point being that a 90cc or 95cc version of the same design type is likely a difficult, time consuming and expensive exercise. i'd love to talk to the guy behind it. by the way, the 575 has become my favorite saw since i got one several years ago. before, i used a 272, 385 and 394, depending on the situation. now i mostly just take two 575's. another thing is if you start at dawn and break for lunch at 1100 you're going to use less than three tanks of mix, often only two.
If you want to wade through the terminology and the language translation issues, the info you're looking for is in the attached Master's Thesis doc. It's really about the use of computer modeling to show how the fuel/air flows through an engine, but it happens to be based on the 570/575/576 series of engine. Towards the end (Section 3) there is a series of graphics showing air and fuel location in the ports by crank angle. The "passive scalar" refers to the air with fuel in it, or maybe the boundary between fuel and plain air.
 

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