copper versus pex

[mga]

would it be economical to remove all copper pipes in the house and replace with pex lines?

wouldn't the scrap copper more than cover the cost?

or, would the price of the shark bite fittings make it unfeasible?

[Walt41]

Keep the copper, two years from now when the next study comes out...you will be glad you did.

[RacerX]

Keep the copper, two years from now when the next study comes out...you will be glad you did.

Kind of been my opinion for a while. The jury is still out on the longevity of PEX. Copper has been around for decades and has a proven track record. PEX could end up being like aluminum electrical wiring was back in the 70's.

[mga]

Kind of been my opinion for a while. The jury is still out on the longevity of PEX. Copper has been around for decades and has a proven track record. PEX could end up being like aluminum electrical wiring was back in the 70's.

if true, there's going to be thousands of home owners running to file law suits.

every new home being built is running pex.

[pipehead]

PE pipe has been used in the gas business for decades with great success. I wouldn't worry about using PEX.

[lfnh]

Hmmm, there was another gem from the plastic sciences back in the 70's.


"Polybutylene is a gray plastic water supply line pipe that was developed in the 1970’s and promoted as “the pipe of the future.” At the time, the perceived advantages of poly were the low cost over copper and the ease of installation. But in the 1980’s structures with poly started reporting leaks. And when poly pipes were replaced, it was noticed that the interior walls of the pipes and fittings were breaking down and flaking apart.

The fitting pictured above was still holding up despite the internal decay and flaking. It looked fine on the outside, but fortunately the homeowner decided to replace the poly system before the problems started.

It’s in up to 10 Million Properties Nationwide.
From 1978 to 1995, up to ten million homes, mobile homes apartment buildings, and commercial structures were built with poly or had poly installed during remodeling. It’s commonly found in properties in the Sun Belt, the Mid-Atlantic states, and the Pacific Northwest."

[pipehead]

Hmmm, there was another gem from the plastic sciences back in the 70's.


"Polybutylene is a gray plastic water supply line pipe that was developed in the 1970’s and promoted as “the pipe of the future.” At the time, the perceived advantages of poly were the low cost over copper and the ease of installation. But in the 1980’s structures with poly started reporting leaks. And when poly pipes were replaced, it was noticed that the interior walls of the pipes and fittings were breaking down and flaking apart.

The fitting pictured above was still holding up despite the internal decay and flaking. It looked fine on the outside, but fortunately the homeowner decided to replace the poly system before the problems started.

It’s in up to 10 Million Properties Nationwide.
From 1978 to 1995, up to ten million homes, mobile homes apartment buildings, and commercial structures were built with poly or had poly installed during remodeling. It’s commonly found in properties in the Sun Belt, the Mid-Atlantic states, and the Pacific Northwest."

Polybutylene maybe. Polyethylene has an excellent track record in the gas distribution business, and is growing in municipal water as well (partly due to the success of gas).

[PJF1313]

Besides getting my post count up
We've been using PEX (wirsboro) for the last 3 years at work. Mainly it has been used in on replacement sections where the copper has failed. In my situation, it seems that there is an electrical problem - where ever a B/X sits on copper, or they grounded to the supply line, we have a problem. Replace a section w/Pex, and it move CLOSER to the supply to the buildings (better grounding).


I'm all for "newer" tech, but as long as it's better than the old.
Think Levittown, NY, and radiant floor with copper and cement

[volks-man]

i use sharkbites under houses with access in a pinch, but thats it. i'd never put them inside or over living space and
i wouldn't ever conceal a sharkbite fitting... ever.

if i were to use pex i'd be crimping it with proper pex fittings before i'd use sharkbites.
then again, i don't trust the rings either..... so.....................

how can a smooth, non-barbed pipe freely spin in a push-on fitting and not ever leak? no thanks, sharkbite.

[volks-man]

.......................

I'm all for "newer" tech, but as long as it's better than the old.
Think Levittown, NY, and radiant floor with copper and cement

levitt did the same thing in levittown PA and they have all since been replaced with water baseboards....
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmm.

[komatsuvarna]

Polybutylene maybe. Polyethylene has an excellent track record in the gas distribution business, and is growing in municipal water as well (partly due to the success of gas).

This is very true. Just in the last few years there has been numerous municipals here going to HDPE water main. Its a high investment to get started in it, but I kinda like it. A lot of sewer rehab here is done by pipe bursting,,,, with none other than PE.

For the OP, I wouldn't change out the copper.

[David (saltas)]

Plastic pipes in the walls is all the go here too.
But it is only rated to 75 deg C.
Elecrtic water heaters have been banned in new homes for a couple of years so your choices are heat pump, gas storage or instantaneous or solar.
I live closer to the equator than most of you latitude 19 think Cuba.
We get 300 days of sunshine (no rain) ans a edwards solar hot water system is making water at 96 deg C or better for at least 120 of those days.

all of the new homes get a tempering valve installed to protect the plastic pipe from getting over heated.

I the spool inside the valve seizes in the wrong position, ops all of the hot water pipe just got too hot and stretched and deformed until they burst.

questions.
How many home owners are going to know that this valve should be checked or maintained?
How many would be worried if the hot water was hotter than it used to be?
I can see plasters, carpet layers, tilers, carpenters and plumbers all making money out of repair work from failed tempering valves

[mtfallsmikey]

Plastic pipes in the walls is all the go here too.
But it is only rated to 75 deg C.
Elecrtic water heaters have been banned in new homes for a couple of years so your choices are heat pump, gas storage or instantaneous or solar.
I live closer to the equator than most of you latitude 19 think Cuba.
We get 300 days of sunshine (no rain) ans a edwards solar hot water system is making water at 96 deg C or better for at least 120 of those days.

all of the new homes get a tempering valve installed to protect the plastic pipe from getting over heated.

I the spool inside the valve seizes in the wrong position, ops all of the hot water pipe just got too hot and stretched and deformed until they burst.

questions.
How many home owners are going to know that this valve should be checked or maintained?
How many would be worried if the hot water was hotter than it used to be?
I can see plasters, carpet layers, tilers, carpenters and plumbers all making money out of repair work from failed tempering valves

Electric water heaters banned...huh?
Why?

As far as materials are concerned, I've been doing plumbing for dang near 40 yrs, seen everything from galvanized to PEX, and I believe it is the final answer, or close to it. The key to the Sharkbite fitting not leaking is the O-ring, that is mostly what I used on my OWB install. They have to be installed on pipe that is cut with a blade-type cutter, not a hacksaw. ends have to be perfect, free of burrs, etc. PB itself was a decent material, just the plastic crimp fittings suffered from oxygen diffusion and failed. Mice tended to like the taste too. Even worse was Entran.

[volks-man]

Electric water heaters banned...huh?
Why?

As far as materials are concerned, I've been doing plumbing for dang near 40 yrs, seen everything from galvanized to PEX, and I believe it is the final answer, or close to it. The key to the Sharkbite fitting not leaking is the O-ring, that is mostly what I used on my OWB install. They have to be installed on pipe that is cut with a blade-type cutter, not a hacksaw. ends have to be perfect, free of burrs, etc. PB itself was a decent material, just the plastic crimp fittings suffered from oxygen diffusion and failed. Mice tended to like the taste too. Even worse was Entran.

I'm not convinced on the sharkbites and probably won't ever be....... As movement of any joint usually leads to failures; wood, steel, any kind of fixed joint.
I do appreciate the the thoughts of a pro.
I'm curious.....
How do you feel about pex rings?
What are the drawbacks of good ol' cpvc?

[mtfallsmikey]

I'm not convinced on the sharkbites and probably won't ever be....... As movement of any joint usually leads to failures; wood, steel, any kind of fixed joint.
I do appreciate the the thoughts of a pro.
I'm curious.....
How do you feel about pex rings?
What are the drawbacks of good ol' cpvc?

Well, the Sharkbites have been leak-free for 3 yrs. now, but I agree that I would never bury them in a wall. Not sure if that is allowed by code, as plumbing/gas codes prohibit having a "mechanical" joint, i.e. flare, compression fittings inside of a wall, dunno if a Sharkbite is considered a mechanical fitting. I only had one fitting leak on the OWB system, it was a Tigerbite fitting from Blowe's, I do not recommend them. PEX crimp or fusion is great, have to make sure the crimper is calibrated correctly and dialed in. CPVC is like spaghetti, and I would not want to run it at a consistantly high water temperature that you will run on a hydronic system, mainly because of how the glue joints would hold up. PEX-AL-PEX would be the ultimate to use, but pipe/fittings are salty ($$$).